Swords99 Posted June 21, 2017 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 171 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 38 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/12/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted June 21, 2017 5 hours ago, n2thelight said: Rapturist(most)say that Christ can return at any moment,which is false. IMO believing in the rapture sets one up for the deception of satan pretending to be Christ. What else is left on the prophetic timeline if not the rapture? The Jews are already setting things up for the new temple to be built. They’ve got the priests’ garments hanging on mannequins. They’ve got all the shovels for all the altars. They’ve got everything ready. So, as soon as that Temple is built it’ll be a matter of hours and they’ll re-establish Temple worship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fixerupper Posted June 21, 2017 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 1 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 430 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 131 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/20/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted June 21, 2017 17 minutes ago, Yowm said: Romans 11:1-7 esp vs 5 is speaking of the elect of Israel, i.e. Those Jews who turn to their Messiah...sometimes called 'a remnant'. I shouldn't have to mention that a, "remnant chosen by grace" is a Christian, and that the word "eklektos' isn't used in the verse. This is the KJV of verse 5... "Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swords99 Posted June 21, 2017 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 171 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 38 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/12/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted June 21, 2017 12 minutes ago, fixerupper said: I shouldn't have to mention that a, "remnant chosen by grace" is a Christian, and that the word "eklektos' isn't used in the verse. This is the KJV of verse 5... "Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace." Youm is correct. Romans 11:1-7 is referring to Israel. In verse 1 it says God has not cast aside His people, Israel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swords99 Posted June 21, 2017 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 171 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 38 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/12/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted June 21, 2017 3 minutes ago, Yowm said: No, Paul in context of chapters 9-11 is answering the question... Romans 11:1 NASBS [1] I say then, God has not rejected His people, has He? May it never be! For I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. Romans 9:1-6 KJV [1] I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost, [2] That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart. [3] For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: [4] Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God , and the promises; [5] Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came , who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen. [6] Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Paul is explaining who the true Israel is, those who are not only circumcised but have the faith of Abraham..the elect, the remnant of Israel. Correct. There is that remnant of Jews who can recognize the Gospel of Grace and the election of grace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fixerupper Posted June 21, 2017 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 1 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 430 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 131 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/20/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted June 21, 2017 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Swords99 said: Youm is correct. Romans 11:1-7 is referring to Israel. In verse 1 it says God has not cast aside His people, Israel. Is that the extent of it? He's right because he said so? The KJV say's it like this... "Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to to the election of grace." You do know that the election of grace is a New Testament Christian concept, right? You do know that in good exegesis you can't associate the word elect in Mathew 24 i.e. 'eklekos,' which is a word for those saved by grace, with the NT word eklogē used in Romans 11:5...right? You do know that in every instance where the word elect/eklektos is used in the NY it refers to Christians, Christ, or angels and NOT ONCE to Jews/Israel, right? Or is it simply that you are all in denial of the evidence? Edited June 21, 2017 by fixerupper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fixerupper Posted June 21, 2017 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 1 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 430 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 131 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/20/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted June 21, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Swords99 said: Correct. There is that remnant of Jews who can recognize the Gospel of Grace and the election of grace. It impresses me that people would use Romans 9 and 11 to support a pre-trib rapture. When pre-trib was around in the 60's and 70's many of its contradictions were not discovered for years aftwrwaeds. Then the pre=trib camp had to fabricate all sorts of things to counter all the contradictions that surfaced. Pre=trib makes God appear sloppy and indiscriminate claiming that planes, trains, and automobiles will crash killing millions of innocent people. How nice. A pristine act of deliverance turned terror attack. Edited June 21, 2017 by fixerupper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swords99 Posted June 21, 2017 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 171 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 38 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/12/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted June 21, 2017 1 minute ago, fixerupper said: Is that the extent of it? He's right because he said so? The KJV say's it like this... "Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to to the election of grace." You do know that the election of grace is a New Testament Christian concept, right? You do know that in good exegesis you can't associate the word elect in Mathew 24 i.e. 'eklekos,' which is a word for those saved by grace, with the NT word eklogē...right? You do know that in every instance where the word elect/eklektos is used in the NY it refers to Christians, Christ, or angels and NOT ONCE to Jews/Israel, right? Or is it simply that you are all in denial of the evidence? For these Jews it is no different than for Gentiles. As Romans 3:9, 10 tells us: "What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one." A Jewish person doesn't come in on a different level from a Gentile. Paul tells us they are all unworthy and without hope: Jew and Gentile. So a Jew has to be saved the same way we are today. Grace is extended to them, When we get to the end of the Chapter 11, it deals with God coming back and finishing His dealings with the Nation of Israel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swords99 Posted June 21, 2017 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 171 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 38 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/12/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted June 21, 2017 1 minute ago, fixerupper said: It impresses me that people would use Romans 9 and 11 to support a pre-trib rapture. When pre-trib was around in the 60's and 70's many of its contradictions were not discovered for years aftwrwaeds. Then the pre=trib camp had to fabricate all sorts of things to counter all he contradictions that surfaced. Pre=trib makes God appear sloppy and indiscriminate claiming that planes, trains, and automobiles will crash killing millions of innocent people. How nice. A pristine act of deliverance turned terror attack. Where are you getting your information? Just curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fixerupper Posted June 21, 2017 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 1 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 430 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 131 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/20/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted June 21, 2017 1 hour ago, Swords99 said: Where are you getting your information? Just curious. My own studies. I use the textus receptus, Strong's, Thayers, gesenius, Vines, Wuest, eic. I do word studies and have a method. And you? How do you arrive at what we all call "truth." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted June 21, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,195 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,471 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Online Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted June 21, 2017 3 hours ago, enoob57 said: my reply is that the rapture in which Christ only comes to the clouds and returns to heaven with the Church refutes your statement that it is of satan... My statement above caused this statement of yours below... but I somewhat at a loss to understand yours in reply of mine 3 hours ago, fixerupper said: Stop saying anothers beliefs are of Satan. You're just trying to prop up you're position with a demonizing personal attack. you probably should reread what I wrote cause this is out of line with it all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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