Matthew 24: Rapture, Second Coming or Both?

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, Davida said:

So to you the "restrainer" is apostasy?    

This is why I don't care for these threads.  You don't have to respond I'm leaving.

hang around, Davida: if for no other reason, READERS come and read.

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, Davida said:

This is exactly what I've experienced before, now you've changed your words , first you asked if GOD was not CAPABLE of "Using" Satan.  Now-- you are asking if Satan himself is incapable of "holding " himself.  Those are two totally opposite claims.  You are acting as if Satan is working with GOD- HE IS NOT.  The Heavenly Kingdom is at WAR with the Kingdom of darkness. So,  no , Satan does not restrain himself. It is GOD / the Holy Spirit who restrains evil.  Your opinions are all over the map, it appears just arguing in a random way not based upon a Bible scripture. 

When people are truly saved & born again they have the indwelling Holy Spirit which helps the Believers to correctly divide the Word of God- you cannot teach yourself the Bible because without the Holy Spirit there is no spiritual understanding, no consistency or congruency. When seeking the Biblical Truth we should not have pride to just use our own imaginings & be argumentative and think we are accomplishing anything worthwhile.

Amen! I am often reminded of Socrates famous statement: "the ills of the whole world are caused by those who think they know, when in fact, they don't."

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, fixerupper said:

You guys really need to red the text again.  An apostasy is what's holding him back.  The question is who or what restrains IT in verse 7. 

If you had said "apostasia" I would agree: for that is exactly the word Paul used. However, it can also mean a departing. To fit the contest of this passage, a departing fits much better than an apostasy.

If we study verse 3, we see that the man of sin IS REVEALED - showing us that the one Restraining has been "taken out of the way" in the same verse. The only word that conveys such an idea is the apostasia.

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, fixerupper said:

That's not what Paul is saying.  Paul is saying is that an APOSTASY is holding him back.  Nothing in the text say anything about ALLOWING.  That was added!

Paul gives us the idea that an outside force is what removes the one holding back or restraining. This is exactly what will happen at the rapture: an OUTSIDE FORCE will remove the one restraining.

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, fixerupper said:

Statue of Daniel 2?  Why would governments 1,000 plus years old be part of an end-time vision.  It's counterproductive to good hermeneutics that some elements of an end-time vision be historical.

You miss one point: the feet or perhaps toes of this image represent TODAY. And it will be Christ at His coming that will be the ROCK that smashes the image on the toes and feet and they destroys the entire image. However, your point is will taken, as Nebuchadnezzar is not here today, nor is Darius.

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, fixerupper said:

I lost count how many things you're missing, and I don't believe you.  Burning the harlot wth fire isn't ALL false religions.  It's the religion of Islam, either Iran or Mecca gets nuked.

Here is where we disagree: at the end of the 70th week, 70 nations (According to Nathan) will descend on .......get ready for this........will descend on ISRAEL to wipe her off the map. The IDF will last for two days (according to Nathan) but will be destroyed. Israel may be good, but there will be the combined armies of the world against her. They will make it to Jerusalem and will be stopped by Christ before Jerusalem is completely destroyed. However, they will burn her with fire.

Satan KNOWS it will be Jerusalem where Christ will come. He wants to make God out a liar. Therefore, these combined armies will have ONE CITY in mind: Jerusalem.

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, Revelation Man said:

You miss the whole point by arguing the same point. I know the Holy Spirit holds him (Anti-Christ) back. Thus when he stops holding him back what does the Holy Spirit do? He ALLOWS HIM to Come Forth.

Now that you explain it, I see what you mean. By ceasing to restrain, the man if sin is allowed to come forth and be revealed.

[iamlamad]

5 hours ago, inchrist said:

Please let this sink in.....

Departing and divorce are synonyms. Words like alienate, breakup, defection, desertion are synonyms that can be used for divorce or depart.

Coming into existence and removal are antonyms like fast and slow, white and black.

it may not be perfect English, but "BECOMING gone" still leaves someone gone. "To be made" gone is still gone, but perhaps makes it seem as if an outside force accomplished it. Does the word "snatch" ring a bell?

If my cat is in the way and won't allow my garage door to close, I very soon make that cat be "out of the way." I make it "depart!" As the cat was moving someone could say that it was becoming gone. Again, not usual English, but most English people would understand.

[iamlamad]

5 hours ago, inchrist said:

Quote

 I keep writing, we can't put words into Paul's mouth

 

Which is exactly what you doing.

There is a perfect greek word for removal 

Strong's #1808: exairo (pronounced ex-ah'-ee-ro)

That is EXACTLY what I am saying: you are attempting to tell Paul how to write!  Paul chose NOT TO USE that word. I know that if the church has departed, it has been removed.  In fact, it became out of the way.  This does convey the same meaning as removal, but with different words.

[Keras]

What God promises to His people, when He sends disaster onto the world, Isaiah 66:15-16, Zephaniah 3:8, Rev 6:11-17, +, is protection, NOT removal.

Kept from the hour of Trial…

How do Revelation 3:10 and 1 Thessalonians 5:9 say we are to be ‘kept from the hour of trial’ and ‘not destined for retribution’?

They are in the context of: Hold on to what you have, [your faith] let no one rob you of your crown. [your reward]  Keep sober, armed with faith and love…..continue to encourage one another.

When we examine the Greek word ‘peirasmos’, translated as ‘trial’ in Rev. 3, we see it doesn’t match with ‘thlipsis’, used in Matthew 24:21; which refers to the Great Tribulation.   1 Thess. 5 is in the context of a sudden destruction the Lord is going to send upon the ungodly peoples.  We should not be in the dark about it, knowing what it will be and be prepared for it, spiritually and physically.

 

For those who stand firm in faith and love, there are two possibilities.  One is a rapture removal to heaven, the other is the Lord’s protection during that time of trouble.

I discount the rapture because such a thing as a general removal of the Lord’s people has never happened before, the Israelites and up to now Christians have always had to face attacks, persecution and disasters. God doesn’t change, Malachi 3:6, and what happened in the past was symbolic and examples for us, upon whom the end of the age is coming: 1 Corinthians 10:6   Besides the fact that a mass rapture to heaven in the end times, is nowhere prophesied or found in the Bible.

Protection does have a precedent; the three men in the furnace, Daniel 3:19-27 But scriptures like Psalms 23 and Isaiah 43:2 ….walk thru fire and you will not be scorched….  plus over 30 other prophesies assuring safety and protection through what is to come. Jesus prayed for this in John 17:15 and promises like; Zephaniah 2:3, 2 Peter 2:9, Psalms 91:1-16, Jeremiah 17:7-8, Isaiah 26:20 are a great comfort and support when trouble strikes.

It’s simple, really; we are plainly told what to do on the terrible Day of the Lord: Call upon the Name of the Lord and you will be saved. Joel 2:32, Acts 2:21