Saul the Pharisees vs Paul the Apostle. No difference really.

[frienduff thaylorde]

And before I get attacked as a hater.  AINT anyone ever seen me around gays............I am very kind to them.

BUT I have no fear of correcting them , WHEN the SPIRIT leads me to say something to them.

 

[frienduff thaylorde]

2 minutes ago, notsolostsoul said:

Wasn't he speaking of oneself to do so if necessary?

Not be cruel, or judgemental to another sinner.

VERY CORRECT.   Whoever is mean to anyone and has no deep hope for them to be saved.

SHOULD say NOTHING to anyone , till they get corrected themselves.

But warning , rebuking , separating from a sinner who wont repent , IS NOT MEAN................its the pattern JESUS taught.

and paul followed and taught.  too many are coming to the mindset that to correct or if one wont hear, to separate company as mean.

NO its safe for the others and we do it in HOPE they sorrow to repentance. 

IF I were to tell one of JESUS and you were with me and they denied IT , received it not

IF I shook the dust off my feet when I left them , would you think that is offensive or hateful. 

IF so, you better look at acts..............see the real apostles did that.  WHY..........CAUSE JESUS HAD COMMANDED IT.

see the difference.  JESUS sets the pattern.  the thing is...............most don't follow HIS PATTERN.

oh on some good works they might, but not on correcting , or being grave or sincere or compassionate.

Bub,    I am seen as hateful man to so many..........yet..........here is the KEY

often I hear them being judgmental to others..................And I say , IF IT WERENT FOR GOD I would be the same way .....

and they think I am an idiot for not condemning the person,   YET they accuse me OF JUDGING cause I correct sin.

THEY THE JUDGERS ,  I am but a messenger of Christ that judges righteously , not in codemantion nor the attitude I think I am better than any

JUST THE DESRIE they repent and be saved .    Yet I am seen as hater above all mankind.........I have experience the joy of being hated for JESUS

yet sadness for them as well. BUT a very grave attitude when I see brethren in error, cause I fear for their soul.

SEE,  to me life is not about hugging and being a friend to everyone and just getting along .

NO, its All about ETERNAL DESTINY..........and that MOVES a man to correct , because he DOES LOVE the other

and knows the end of sin is death and thus all he wants is a soul saved or restored back in.

SEE it .................RECIEVE IT ....................

[Guest shiloh357]

5 hours ago, notsolostsoul said:

http://www.lastdays.org.uk/jesus-and-the-pharisees.html

You can copy and paste to your search engine.

I've had trouble trying the link. Sorry!

Before coming upon this article, I had wondered what Paul/Saul beliefs were before his conversion.

So I looked up the Pharisee's beliefs. These excerpt described my thoughts.

"Because of this, the experts of the law set about "hedging" the Mosaic law with precepts so as to make its violation almost impossible. They also added to these laws and precepts, customs which had been handed down through the years. They took these precepts to such extremes that the original intent of the written law was often lost, having been made of no effect by the oral laws and traditions which they had brought in." -quoted from artcle above

Also

"To the Pharisee, keeping the law (both written and oral) was everything. The condition of a person's heart towards God was unimportant. Because of their strict adherence to levitical laws of purity, they kept themselves separate from gentile sinners (on whom they looked down), for fear of being defiled." -quoted from article.

My fear of Christians today, is that some fall into these same practices. Written law is most high and correction and condemnation to those who do not follow.

Now not to leave out the title of my OP heading. Saul believed these values as a Pharisee and put to death (even physically) those that the Pharisees saw as violators of the law.

As Paul the Apostle, he seems to continue these values and practices, minus the physical death. He writes with precepts, adding extra to Jesus' teachings.

Then again, maybe that wasn't his intentions, but some who follow his writings to a tee, have exhibited these same Pharisees practices.

Examples:  They keep themselves separated from sinners and look down on them. Sentencing them to spiritual death because they live differently or think differently to what is written.

This article also explains why the Pharisees opposed Jesus and Jesus' way of dealing with sinners, his dealings with all. Very opposite ways in doing so.

I'm not trying to change anyone's view on their beliefs, just sharing information to incite and seek out the truth for oneself.

We are taught to question man and test his spirit. Paul was a man. I test him like I would anyone else. 

Jesus' teachings first, then mans. This works for me.

To also keep with the heading. The only difference is Paul's writings after his conversion, is now it bares Jesus name.

I'm not saying Paul's teachings can't be used for learning. Everyone can be used by God. Just ensure your Spirit is CHRIST based. As I said this works for ME.

I found it to be an interesting article.

This a cornucopia of false teaching.   Those who truly follow Jesus will reject all of it.

[frienduff thaylorde]

Just now, shiloh357 said:

This a cornucopia of false teaching.   Those who truly follow Jesus will reject all of it.

And those who do follow JESUS DO.

SHILOH is correct.  PAUL KNEW JESUS.    we need to stop listening to men who say otherwise.

Read his letters for ourselves.    I guarantee in time you will see Not so lost that these men who have taught you this

Are dead wrong.  

[Guest shiloh357]

1 hour ago, notsolostsoul said:

As I said his teachings are helpful and God uses all of it.

 

Paul's teachings came from God.   Everything Paul wrote in Scripture was by inspiration of the Holy Spirit. 

[frienduff thaylorde]

4 hours ago, Sojourner414 said:

In reading Scripture (both the Gospels and the Pauline Epistles), we find that there is a GREAT deal of difference between Paul's writings and "what the Pharisees believed". This hearkens back to the old debate of "accepting only what Jesus actually said in Scripture" as opposed to the ENTIRE Bible being the Word of God and thus all of it being accepted.

That being said: if we are going to apply the line of thinking "We are taught to question man and test his spirit. Paul was a man. I test him like I would anyone else."then we have to apply that to the entire Bible and test each book, starting with Genesis (seeing as each inspired book of Scripture was set to papyrus/parchment by a human under the direction of God). Then after all that, come back and apply it to Paul's works as well.

At the end of all that, I think we would find Paul to be much more on the same "page" as Jesus that this "article" postulates...

 

 

The KEY WORD is IF WE WOULD READ HIS LETTERS AND JESUS SAYINGS..........we would see that the SPIRIT of CHRIST was IN PAUL.

AMEN>

[notsolostsoul]

2 minutes ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

And before I get attacked as a hater.  AINT anyone ever seen me around gays............I am very kind to them.

BUT I have no fear of correcting them , WHEN the SPIRIT leads me to say something to them.

 

Never said bringing the word for correction is wrong. That is what Jesus did, but to try and force feed scripture, Jesus did not. 

Not saying you do this in this way.

However there are some "Christians", who if you don't apply, and enforce the word for what is written then you are not a true Christian.

Jesus approached many sinners with kindness and through his acts turned them to God. Not forcing the word on anyone. If they didn't want to hear him, he kept it moving. He did not say well since you don't want to listen, you're the devil and you will burn in hell. 

God is patient, and will turn who he sees fit. So why do so manytry and force people to do it RIGHT NOW and how I say you should do it. They back it with scripture, mainly from Paul.

Some "Christians" bombard with the word, and it is usually Paul writings they reference, and say harshly well you are not Christian, you are not of God you are going to hell. Turning away more then they help.

They even harshly accuse fellow Christians of not being true for not upholding the word according to their standards, that they back with Pauls writings.

This has happened all too often on this site.

If you approach a topic or people with kindness you're not being full "Christian" because we are called to correct, backed with Pauls writings.

So even if it's not Paul's writings that are flawed, many use it to bypass their judgemental ways.

 

[frienduff thaylorde]

3 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

Paul's teachings came from God.   Everything Paul wrote in Scripture was by inspiration of the Holy Spirit. 

Amen.  The reason I fear for notso lost .................is he is actually attacking the SPIRIT behind paul.

THIS IS NOT GOOD .   now I am not saying its too late for the man.  NOTSOLOST.................brother, just start afresh

just do it ...........forget all mans teachings and dig in the HOLY SCRIPS , just love them, just bask in the ambience of HIS words and sayings

the pattern the appostels taught .............it truly is the SAME SPIRIT at work.............bask in the ambience of it notsolost

and I will change your name to NOTLOST amen.

[frienduff thaylorde]

3 minutes ago, notsolostsoul said:

Never said bringing the word for correction is wrong. That is what Jesus did, but to try and force feed scripture, Jesus did not. 

Not saying you do this in this way.

However there are some "Christians", who if you don't apply, and enforce the word for what is written then you are not a true Christian.

Jesus approached many sinners with kindness and through his acts turned them to God. Not forcing the word on anyone. If they didn't want to hear him, he kept it moving. He did not say well since you don't want to listen, you're the devil and you will burn in hell. 

God is patient, and will turn who he sees fit. So why do so manytry and force people to do it RIGHT NOW and how I say you should do it. They back it with scripture, mainly from Paul.

Some "Christians" bombard with the word, and it is usually Paul writings they reference, and say harshly well you are not Christian, you are not of God you are going to hell. Turning away more then they help.

They even harshly accuse fellow Christians of not being true for not upholding the word according to their standards, that they back with Pauls writings.

This has happened all too often on this site.

If you approach a topic or people with kindness you're not being full "Christian" because we are called to correct, backed with Pauls writings.

So even if it's not Paul's writings that are flawed, many use it to bypass their judgemental ways.

 

You are partly correct.  YOU are one hundred percent right about JESUS not FORCING . 

The gospel is either received or rejected. BUT if its rejected by them, whoever rejects it .......WE PART COMPANY FROM THEM

we don't hang around and hug them etc.   WE MOVE ON .

now when it comes to Beleivers................their is a real tested and tried pattern THAT WORKS

FOR JESUS set it, the apostels followed it.

Number one........if one is in error..........you go and rebuke your brethren.  If it is a fault that is between you and he

, like he wronged you..............you take it to him IN PRIVATE..........because the HOPE should be , they hear and repent.

GOSSIP is evil and is of satan .  Now if one is in a sin you rebuke , correct

if they hear you not, take two or three witnesses , let the truth be established.

if they hear not , take them before the church........if they hear not , separate them OUT.

Two things will occur................WE HOPE they sorrow to repentance.  or sadly they might just never come back.

But , either way the others are kept safe from the leaven.  SEE the problem with todays churches are

NUMBER ONE...........they aint preaching good sound doctrine , the kind that causes any in error to repent .

the leaven just grows viral and others in the church fall away with them.

Take gays for example.   HAD the approach been all are welcome , YET SOUND DOCTRINE had been preached

two things would have happened.................THEY , some might have heard the real grave truth and REPENTED

or they would have just left.

BUT INSTEAD this hug everything , has led the churches and more of them all the time

to seeing it as okay.  GOD KNOWS what is best for us........and being unequally yoked together

causes one to fall away.   GOD KNOWS THAT.

SO I make the call for all men to stand once again..........preach HOLY DOCTRINE

and use the law ONLY as a means to correct .   the early church did that..........they used the law to correct.

but they did not see the law as earing salvation.   just for correction

AND................IF WE HAVE THE HOLY SPIRIT the law is ON OUR HEARTS ,

[frienduff thaylorde]

9 minutes ago, Sojourner414 said:

Exactly my point, frienduff. Paul and Jesus' teachings were on the same page.  Paul would not teach anything that the Lord would not have were He to speak it to us. Paul was nothing like the Pharisees, but he was definitely an apostle of Jesus Christ and authorized to speak for Him.

AMEN and what a wonderful point you made.