How do you Identify Wolves in Sheep's Clothing?

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Neighbor said:

Hi, Thanks for the  interesting conversation as I take a break from calculating real estate comparable values- Ho hum to that task. I am  sitting at So Ca. today with irritated nasal passages from the air here, and the plane ride I suppose. Anyway my nose is running faster than I can. How people can love living here is way beyond my capacity to comprehend, but they do! They wouldn't live anywhere else. Silly people

There all kinds of reasons I wouldnt live in Ca. It is not as it once was even 30 yrs ago. It has turned into a cesspool of liberalism  for one.

1 hour ago, Neighbor said:

What I am saying or trying to communicate is that  God doesn't need the... oh I will say it, the self appointed "trumpeters of their truth" in His behalf. God knows exactly what truth is, and falsehood, good as well as  evil.

Ill stick to the word of God.

Ephesians 5:11

Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them

2 Timothy 4:2

Preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching.

Which btw,of course God knows what is truth and falsehood. God is the truth!  The point of  exposing error and protecting the babes who may stumble is that we are instructed to do so. It is not to help God save someone as if we could anyways . We have been instructed in his word and thats what I will continue to do!

1 hour ago, Neighbor said:

He revealed  to me to the point I had to stop denying Him, and He used a lot of strange "bad guys" to do it.

God had also perhaps used many a tv pastor to keep me from Himself until it was His time for my repentance and for me to bow a knee, two of them for that matter, before Jesus as my Lord, savior, and master. I became a bond-servant of Jesus. I had no need of the trumpeters of truth as they see it. I had no need of any person what so ever, only the Holy Spirit.

Ive already told you God who is truth does not use lies to save anyone. You are leaning on your own understanding. Give me a scripture and not one you have cherry picked to loosely support your lack of understanding. Romans 8:28 is speaking of those ALREADY IN CHRIST. You are using it OUT OF CONTEXT.

God doesnt use wolves to perfect his timing. His timing of your repentance is already perfect w/o anyones help.

Ill stick to the word. I sense your  "trumpeters of the truth" phrase as derogatory.  

If that is the case,you are mocking Gods word.  He has instructed his saints to defend the faith at all costs. Ill place my bets on his word and not yours.

Titus 1:9 He must be devoted to the trustworthy message we teach. Then he can use these accurate teachings to encourage people and correct those who oppose the word.

6. 2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage–with great patience and careful instruction.

7. Philippians 1:16 The latter do so out of love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel.

8. Ephesians 5:11 Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them.

 

1 hour ago, Neighbor said:

 That is my point; God does not have need of referees especially self appointed ones,  for His truth to prevail. He is sovereign, He is in charge alway.

We may find we have disagreement or lack of understanding of each other, and that is okay.For  God, He is true to each of us and we if we hear and heed the call from the Holy Spirit we  will  each be with our Lord, and I suppose,  each other as brothers and sisters, saints in Christ Jesus.

So now a defender of the faith is not only a "trumpeter of truth" but also a referee? Uh ok then.  I must surmise that you are not one to defend the faith since you have all kinds of derogatory name tags for those who do!

Matthew 5:11-12 “You are blessed when they insult and persecute you and falsely say every kind of evil against you because of Me. Be glad and rejoice, because your reward is great in heaven. For that is how they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

13. 1 Peter 4:14 If you are ridiculed for the name of Christ, you are blessed, because the Spirit of glory and of God rests on you. None of you, however, should suffer as a murderer, a thief, an evildoer, or a meddler. But if anyone suffers as a “Christian,” he should not be ashamed but should glorify God in having that name.

 

Your argument is full of holes and goes against all scripture I have posted. It is Gods breathed words. Ignore it if you like. Its your prerogative. God didnt save you with falsehoods. You cant be saved with error. You are saved with the pure perfect word of God!!

Faith come by hearing and hearing by the word of God. romans 10:17

2 Corinth 6: 15What harmony is there between Christ and Belial?

 

Here is the context of Romans 8:28.

1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

3For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

4That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

5For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

6For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

7Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

9But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

10And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

11But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

12Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

13For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

14For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

15For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

16The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

17And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

18For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

19For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

20For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

21Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

22For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

23And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

24For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

25But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

26Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

27And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

28And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose

 

Edited October 1, 2017 by Guest

[frienduff thaylorde]

1 hour ago, Blueyedjewel said:

No. That is not what that passage is saying.  Dont add to the word of God . The passage is about the harvest of wheat and tares and how the tares will burn in hell when the harvest is done .

Btw,that passage is in chapter 13 and not 12.

 

Who is unbalanced? Preoccupied and overcome with paranoid feelings?  This discussion is about wolves; all are welcome to  comment and it doesnt make that one unbalanced or preoccupied or paranoid when that person DOES NOT MAKE LIGHT OF IT. 

It is impossible to be focused  on Jesus and his kingdom 100% without having to address false teaching and exposing the wolves!. We are called to defend the faith as well as go out and spread the good news. We cannot do one without doing the other. Error has to be addressed. Any saint worth his salt will protect the babes from stumbling and address the false teachers. The word instructs the saints to do both. I will adhere to the word of God.

 

And defend and contend for the true faith we shall to the end and final breath puffs out these lungs.

for years people have been coming at me with excuses for wolves or not to judge etc.   And for years I just keep on a warning.  

[frienduff thaylorde]

1 hour ago, Blueyedjewel said:

There all kinds of reasons I wouldnt live in Ca. It is not as it once was even 30 yrs ago. It has turned into a cesspool of liberalism  for one.

Ill stick to the word of God.

Ephesians 5:11

Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them

2 Timothy 4:2

Preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching.

Which btw,of course God knows what is truth and falsehood. God is the truth!  The point of  exposing error and protecting the babes who may stumble is that we are instructed to do so. It is not to help God save someone as if we could anyways . We have been instructed in his word and thats what I will continue to do!

Ive already told you God who is truth does not use lies to save anyone. You are leaning on your own understanding. Give me a scripture and not one you have cherry picked to loosely support your lack of understanding. Romans 8:28 is speaking of those ALREADY IN CHRIST. You are using it OUT OF CONTEXT.

God doesnt use wolves to perfect his timing. His timing of your repentance is already perfect w/o anyones help.

Ill stick to the word. I sense your  "trumpeters of the truth" phrase as derogatory.  

If that is the case,you are mocking Gods word.  He has instructed his saints to defend the faith at all costs. Ill place my bets on his word and not yours.

Titus 1:9 He must be devoted to the trustworthy message we teach. Then he can use these accurate teachings to encourage people and correct those who oppose the word.

6. 2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage–with great patience and careful instruction.

7. Philippians 1:16 The latter do so out of love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel.

8. Ephesians 5:11 Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them.

 

So now a defender of the faith is not only a "trumpeter of truth" but also a referee? Uh ok then.  I must surmise that you are not one to defend the faith since you have all kinds of derogatory name tags for those who do!

Matthew 5:11-12 “You are blessed when they insult and persecute you and falsely say every kind of evil against you because of Me. Be glad and rejoice, because your reward is great in heaven. For that is how they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

13. 1 Peter 4:14 If you are ridiculed for the name of Christ, you are blessed, because the Spirit of glory and of God rests on you. None of you, however, should suffer as a murderer, a thief, an evildoer, or a meddler. But if anyone suffers as a “Christian,” he should not be ashamed but should glorify God in having that name.

 

Your argument is full of holes and goes against all scripture I have posted. It is Gods breathed words. Ignore it if you like. Its your prerogative. God didnt save you with falsehoods. You cant be saved with error. You are saved with the pure perfect word of God!!

Faith come by hearing and hearing by the word of God. romans 10:17

2 Corinth 6: 15What harmony is there between Christ and Belial?

 

Here is the context of Romans 8:28.

1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

3For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

4That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

5For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

6For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

7Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

9But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

10And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

11But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

12Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

13For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

14For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

15For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

16The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

17And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

18For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

19For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

20For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

21Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

22For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

23And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

24For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

25But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

26Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

27And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

28And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose

 

As we know , their excuses nor oy veys will knock me one ounce of my course .    I see a false prophet it and its doctrine get exposed.

For as GOD made perfectly clear to one church............I have this AGAINST you, you ALLOW , ALLOW , wont warn , just make excuse for them

you allow that false prophetess to teach and seduce my people.   NOT ON THIS ONES WATCH.   they get exposed and exposed they get.

[KiwiChristian]

By their fruits ye shall know them.

They shall tickle our ears.

Telling us what we WANT to hear rather than what we NEED to hear.

Edited October 2, 2017 by KiwiChristian

[Neighbor]

12 hours ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

And defend and contend for the true faith we shall to the end and final breath puffs out these lungs.

for years people have been coming at me with excuses for wolves or not to judge etc.   And for years I just keep on a warning.  

Hi, Curiosity has gotten to me, so I will ask, do you have a local body of Christ Jesus that you attend regularly and participate with  Christians in corporate worship of God?

[Neighbor]

On 8/20/2017 at 9:10 AM, AlexDofTX said:

Jesus warned us to watch out for wolves in sheep's clothing.  Clearly this means identifying people who claim to be Christians but inwardly are ravening wolves. So are there any New Testament examples of people who were exposed as wolves in sheep's clothing? Some come to my mind, but I don't know if they fit the description.

Paul warns us, too.  He says that in the last days perilous times shall come.   Do we all agree that we are in the last days?  Isn't this important to recognize.

2Ti 3:2  For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
2Ti 3:3  Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
2Ti 3:4  Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5  Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:6  For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
2Ti 3:7  Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

They have a form of godliness, but deny the power of God... ever learning but never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Paul said,

1Ti 1:19  Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:
1Ti 1:20  Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme. 

Would you consider them wolves in sheep's clothing or just backsliders?

Paul said that Demas had forsaken him, having loved this present world and departed for Thessalonica (2 Tim. 4:10).  Would that be a wolf, or simply a backslider?

What about the people that joined in the agape feasts that Jude refers to?

Jud 1:4  For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Jud 1:8  Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.

Jud 1:10  But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.

Jud 1:12  These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;
Jud 1:13  Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

Those are harsh words regarding people who are calling themselves Christians to be in their fellowship.

This is spiritual discernment and I  believe every serious follower of Christ should have it. So help understand what clues will demonstrate a wolf in sheep's clothing. Your feed back is greatly appreciated.

 

Repeating the opening post as reminder of what the thread is about. -Tends to get lost once many posts have been made. Are we in the last days, times of birth pangs, etc.?

Well  I suppose, but then the last days also appear to be many, and long. I can buy into a Dr. David Reagan's presentations, but I also have wonder about  a calendar that goes some 19,760 plus years before repeating. Why is there such a calendar in the hands of God's chosen  people, and if we are only some 5700+ years into it is the end to come all that soon? That's just a curiosity of mine, not a great "theory" to be championed.

In any case, my soul could be required of me today! So, I should live today as though that is the case. I have no good interest in seeing if I can wait a day before considering that my own life may end even now. The trouble with timers of all sorts is that most individuals, self included for sure, play a great game of brinksmanship. Each will wait until the last of the last moments before going into action. I think that folly is not something to encourage in ourselves nor in others. So lets just say, regardless of when the end of end times might be, this certainly is a "time of the signs", and the signs should be heeded for today, and not left until some tomorrow down the road of time.

 

"2Ti 3:2  For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,"...

Hmm, lovers of their own selves, boasters, and proud too. Okay, I can see that.  In fact I have heard proud testimony of it even on this thread, but is that  in of itself reason to think the last of the last days is upon us? Seems to me the Biblical lamenting was given us almost two thousand years ago because there was a problem even then. It has been a problem for  at least that two thousand years. I think we can take every mark of the last days and find they have been an issue for some very long time. 

 I also think that there have been some much harsher times in the past than anything we suffer this moment. So, are we perhaps really between birth pangs? 

There have been ungodly men that crept in for as long as there have been men to creep in. And yet Christ has not failed, His word is true His father is sovereign, we are secure in Christ Jesus when called to our personal repentence by the Holy Spirit.

I believe my God to be awesomely powerful, and absolutely capable of fulfilling his word as expressed within the following:

" There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death.  For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh,  in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.  For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace.  For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot.  Those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

 You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.  But if Christ is in you, although the body is dead because of sin, the Spirit is life because of righteousness.  If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you.

So then, brothers, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh.  For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.  For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.  For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!”  The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,  and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him.

 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us.  For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God.  For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope  that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God.  For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now.  And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.  For in this hope we were saved. Now hope that is seen is not hope. For who hopes for what he sees?  But if we hope for what we do not see, we wait for it with patience.

 Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words.  And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.  And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.  For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us?  He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things?  Who shall bring any charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies.  Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword? As it is written,

“For your sake we are being killed all the day long;
    we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.”

No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord

 

Edited October 2, 2017 by Neighbor

[Neighbor]

"1Ti 1:20  Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme. 

Would you consider them wolves in sheep's clothing or just backsliders?"

Hi,

Don't know that I like the limit of choice there. Guess I have to say neither, or none of the above.

Why did Paul turn them over to Satan? To punish them before the time? Seems a hard deliverance by Paul the apostle out of time that reached out to Gentiles and whom suffered greatly for it from Jews and Romans alike. I understand him to have sent them away, away from the body of Christ to suffer separation, with the hope in prayer by Him and by other saints that they will learn and that they both will be restored from their errant teaching that the resurrection  had already occurred thus the hope of a second life was in vain.

[Neighbor]

"Those are harsh words regarding people who are calling themselves Christians to be in their fellowship."

They are also words of order for protection of the church. They are not condemning words so much as they are teaching words! As in Matthew 18 there is a procedure, a Godly procedure, a command, and with it comes the responsibility to also welcome back, fully  and without ever holding  whatever the fault was against the repentant person again.

Repentance has it's reward among Christians just as it has  before God. The person is not necessarily a false Christian nor a backslider, but can well be an  enthusiastic but errant Christian unwilling to give up an error or sin that needs conquering.

Individuals are in effect, if not in fact, turned over to Satan, not for punishment before the time. It is for the safety of the entire flock as well as for the individual errant lamb to learn by and be restored.

The entire flock has the responsibility,  the command, to pray for an errant member,  not just to ostracize them, and even greater is the responsibility of the entire flock to never ever bring up again the issue as judgement against the member when the prayers are answered and the errant lamb returns to the flock.

Now here is a personal opinion: To find a personal thrill in faulting others is to have no love for the saints. To brag about it is evidence of a hardened heart not a Christian one. Never showing any tender feeling, never showing any mercy is like the master that showed his own servants no mercy. "  judgment is without mercy to one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment."

A little mercy goes a long way toward reaching the unsaved and restoring the saved to full fellowship.  A kinder and a gentler voice carries the greater victory.

"Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.  Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”

[frienduff thaylorde]

22 hours ago, Guest said:

There all kinds of reasons I wouldnt live in Ca. It is not as it once was even 30 yrs ago. It has turned into a cesspool of liberalism  for one.

Ill stick to the word of God.

Ephesians 5:11

Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them

2 Timothy 4:2

Preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching.

Which btw,of course God knows what is truth and falsehood. God is the truth!  The point of  exposing error and protecting the babes who may stumble is that we are instructed to do so. It is not to help God save someone as if we could anyways . We have been instructed in his word and thats what I will continue to do!

Ive already told you God who is truth does not use lies to save anyone. You are leaning on your own understanding. Give me a scripture and not one you have cherry picked to loosely support your lack of understanding. Romans 8:28 is speaking of those ALREADY IN CHRIST. You are using it OUT OF CONTEXT.

God doesnt use wolves to perfect his timing. His timing of your repentance is already perfect w/o anyones help.

Ill stick to the word. I sense your  "trumpeters of the truth" phrase as derogatory.  

If that is the case,you are mocking Gods word.  He has instructed his saints to defend the faith at all costs. Ill place my bets on his word and not yours.

Titus 1:9 He must be devoted to the trustworthy message we teach. Then he can use these accurate teachings to encourage people and correct those who oppose the word.

6. 2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage–with great patience and careful instruction.

7. Philippians 1:16 The latter do so out of love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel.

8. Ephesians 5:11 Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them.

 

So now a defender of the faith is not only a "trumpeter of truth" but also a referee? Uh ok then.  I must surmise that you are not one to defend the faith since you have all kinds of derogatory name tags for those who do!

Matthew 5:11-12 “You are blessed when they insult and persecute you and falsely say every kind of evil against you because of Me. Be glad and rejoice, because your reward is great in heaven. For that is how they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

13. 1 Peter 4:14 If you are ridiculed for the name of Christ, you are blessed, because the Spirit of glory and of God rests on you. None of you, however, should suffer as a murderer, a thief, an evildoer, or a meddler. But if anyone suffers as a “Christian,” he should not be ashamed but should glorify God in having that name.

 

Your argument is full of holes and goes against all scripture I have posted. It is Gods breathed words. Ignore it if you like. Its your prerogative. God didnt save you with falsehoods. You cant be saved with error. You are saved with the pure perfect word of God!!

Faith come by hearing and hearing by the word of God. romans 10:17

2 Corinth 6: 15What harmony is there between Christ and Belial?

 

Here is the context of Romans 8:28.

1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

3For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

4That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

5For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

6For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

7Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

9But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

10And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

11But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

12Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

13For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

14For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

15For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

16The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

17And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

18For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

19For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

20For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

21Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

22For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

23And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

24For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

25But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

26Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

27And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

28And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose

 

What words of beauty dear guest , what words of beauty indeed.  sharpens and reminds us ,

Way too many wolves devouring the flocks .    Time to correct them and if they refuse , what was it paul said,   HAVE no company with them .

For years people who don't know no better have constantly tried to correct my pattern of correction.   FOR YEARS by grace I stay the same sharp , grave and compassionate.

You so right.  God don't use false prophets to bring us to HIM.    This other person is still leaning on their own understanding.

The spirit draws us to Christ  to GOD.   not evil wolves.    we rebuke them and do so sharply so others will fear too.   warn out against false doctrines

and false ones and never stop doing so.  FOR WE LOVE the peoples ,  tis why we warn and remind. amen.

[frienduff thaylorde]

6 hours ago, Neighbor said:

"Those are harsh words regarding people who are calling themselves Christians to be in their fellowship."

They are also words of order for protection of the church. They are not condemning words so much as they are teaching words! As in Matthew 18 there is a procedure, a Godly procedure, a command, and with it comes the responsibility to also welcome back, fully  and without ever holding  whatever the fault was against the repentant person again.

Repentance has it's reward among Christians just as it has  before God. The person is not necessarily a false Christian nor a backslider, but can well be an  enthusiastic but errant Christian unwilling to give up an error or sin that needs conquering.

Individuals are in effect, if not in fact, turned over to Satan, not for punishment before the time. It is for the safety of the entire flock as well as for the individual errant lamb to learn by and be restored.

The entire flock has the responsibility,  the command, to pray for an errant member,  not just to ostracize them, and even greater is the responsibility of the entire flock to never ever bring up again the issue as judgement against the member when the prayers are answered and the errant lamb returns to the flock.

Now here is a personal opinion: To find a personal thrill in faulting others is to have no love for the saints. To brag about it is evidence of a hardened heart not a Christian one. Never showing any tender feeling, never showing any mercy is like the master that showed his own servants no mercy. "  judgment is without mercy to one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment."

A little mercy goes a long way toward reaching the unsaved and restoring the saved to full fellowship.  A kinder and a gentler voice carries the greater victory.

"Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.  Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”

the last part was way too seeker friendly.  here lets let Jude sum it up.  save some with compassion making a difference, others with FEAR HATING , oh yes hating even the garment

spotted by the flesh.    MERCY is seen in both compassion and fear.   Dig in that bible much more , feast on it and you will come to the same understanding by grace

I did .   But sit under men who keep preaching a lukewarm gospel , it wont ever happen.