popsthebuilder Posted March 4, 2021 Group: Non-Trinitarian Followers: 2 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 299 Content Per Day: 0.24 Reputation: 87 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/13/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted March 4, 2021 4 hours ago, Fidei Defensor said: “Jesus said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.” (Luke 22:36) Its clear Jesus intended his disicples to defend themselves, and each orher. Context much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popsthebuilder Posted March 4, 2021 Group: Non-Trinitarian Followers: 2 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 299 Content Per Day: 0.24 Reputation: 87 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/13/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted March 4, 2021 4 hours ago, Fidei Defensor said: In fact Jesus our Lord encourages soldiers to keep their jobs: “Soldiers also asked him, "And we, what shall we do?" And he said to them, "Do not extort money from anyone by threats or by false accusation, and be content with your wages." (Luke 3:14). Christ could have said “put away your swords, and make no war,” but He didn’t. That would have been promoting revolt and would have caused a lot of death. Pretty sure He said love your enemy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted March 4, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 165 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 3,997 Content Per Day: 1.56 Reputation: 2,607 Days Won: 15 Joined: 04/29/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted March 4, 2021 Just now, popsthebuilder said: That would have been promoting revolt and would have caused a lot of death. Pretty sure He said love your enemy. He did say that, but he also said “sell your cloak ans buy a sword,” and Jesus is returning with a sword to cut the wicked to pieces: “13 He is clothed in a robe dipped in blood, and the name by which he is called is The Word of God. 14 And the armies of heaven, arrayed in fine linen, white and pure, were following him on white horses. 15 From his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and he will rule them with a rod of iron. He will tread the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty. 16 On his robe and on his thigh he has a name written, King of kings and Lord of lords.” (Revelation 19:13-16) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popsthebuilder Posted March 4, 2021 Group: Non-Trinitarian Followers: 2 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 299 Content Per Day: 0.24 Reputation: 87 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/13/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted March 4, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Fidei Defensor said: He did say that, but he also said “sell your cloak ans buy a sword,” and Jesus is returning with a sword to cut the wicked to pieces: “13 He is clothed in a robe dipped in blood, and the name by which he is called is The Word of God. 14 And the armies of heaven, arrayed in fine linen, white and pure, were following him on white horses. 15 From his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and he will rule them with a rod of iron. He will tread the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty. 16 On his robe and on his thigh he has a name written, King of kings and Lord of lords.” (Revelation 19:13-16) The sword of the Spirit is not a literal sword and blessed St. Peter was rebuked and the mans ear healed. I don't see anywhere in the teachings of the Christ of GOD that we are to defend self to the point of killing another. As sheep to the slaughter doesn't seem to me to depict a very vicious bunch. Don't get me wrong though please; i am not in any way promoting a lack of action for the sake of the needy or child or defenceless. I strongly believe in the defence of others from actual harm of any real sort. Edited March 4, 2021 by popsthebuilder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted March 4, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 165 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 3,997 Content Per Day: 1.56 Reputation: 2,607 Days Won: 15 Joined: 04/29/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted March 4, 2021 8 minutes ago, popsthebuilder said: The sword of the Spirit is not a literal sword and blessed St. Peter was rebuked and the mans ear healed. I don't see anywhere in the teachings of the Christ of GOD that we are to defend self to the point of killing another. As sheep to the slaughter doesn't seem to me to depict a very vicious bunch. Don't get me wrong though please; i am not in any way promoting a lack of action for the sake of the needy or child or defenceless. I strongly believe in the defence of others from actual harm of any real sort. I agree self defense is key. However, most of us who live in free nations who have standing armies, Christians who serve to defend and fight those who’d take away our religious liberty. Its easy to claim pacifism until it means demeaning our troops who allow us to be Quakers (non-violent). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whyme Posted March 4, 2021 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 82 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 2,300 Content Per Day: 1.97 Reputation: 1,125 Days Won: 10 Joined: 02/16/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted March 4, 2021 trying to liberate the Holy land doesn't sound like self defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whyme Posted March 4, 2021 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 82 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 2,300 Content Per Day: 1.97 Reputation: 1,125 Days Won: 10 Joined: 02/16/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted March 4, 2021 On 7/5/2019 at 8:29 PM, imnotJohnSmith said: True. Also true. Even for true believers, we are weak in the flesh, and things could easily got out of hand, into a spiralling mess. I don't like the robbing, pillaging, rape and murders in the Crusade, but Christendom might be snuffed out by Islam if it wasn't for the Crusade, from a secular/historical view. The church survived the pagan romans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whyme Posted March 4, 2021 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 82 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 2,300 Content Per Day: 1.97 Reputation: 1,125 Days Won: 10 Joined: 02/16/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted March 4, 2021 On 8/31/2019 at 5:33 PM, Who me said: How could the crusaders been Godly. They butcher communities simply because they were different. One of the reasons for going on crusade was to earn a spiritual reward. Something that is not possible. God had not called for the crusades so it was not a God honouring or God centered activity. Nothing godly about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whyme Posted March 4, 2021 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 82 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 2,300 Content Per Day: 1.97 Reputation: 1,125 Days Won: 10 Joined: 02/16/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted March 4, 2021 5 hours ago, Fidei Defensor said: In fact Jesus our Lord encourages soldiers to keep their jobs: “Soldiers also asked him, "And we, what shall we do?" And he said to them, "Do not extort money from anyone by threats or by false accusation, and be content with your wages." (Luke 3:14). Christ could have said “put away your swords, and make no war,” but He didn’t. But Jesus doesn't say go on a bloody crusade to liberate the Holy land or to earn a place in heaven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whyme Posted March 4, 2021 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 82 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 2,300 Content Per Day: 1.97 Reputation: 1,125 Days Won: 10 Joined: 02/16/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted March 4, 2021 3 hours ago, Fidei Defensor said: To quote an Israeli Archeologist, “turn the other cheek in the time of Jesus wasn’t let someone slap you again on the other cheek, the ways Jews smote people was with a back hand and if you turn the other cheek it cannot make contact, this turning the other cheek means to not recieve the insult and abuse again.” He said they “will die by the sword,” but that’s just a mattwe of fact statement, not a rule for pacifism. In fact Jesus rebuked Peter when he drew his sword in Gethsename not because he fought, but because Peter was resisting Jesus’ salvic plan, “So Jesus said to Peter, "Put your sword into its sheath; shall I not drink the cup that the Father has given me?" (John 18:11) The issue of Peter drWing hus sword is he sought to stop Jesus’ atoning sacrifice, as he had done with words earlier: “21 From that time Jesus began to show his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and on the third day be raised. 22 And Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him, saying, "Far be it from you, Lord! This shall never happen to you." 23 But he turned and said to Peter, "Get behind me, Satan! You are a hindrance to me. For you are not setting your mind on the things of God, but on the things of man." (Matthew 16:21-23) The Apostle Paul is talking about spiritual warfare “in our weapons arn’t carnal,” he doesn’t speak against physical warfare. Paul does speak against carnal warfare, he says our war isn't carnal. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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