convert or disciple?

[Robert William]

2 minutes ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

Bro , this man has been misquoating us all day.   I never said some of the things he assumes I mean either.

Lest ye be convereted as small children you shall in no wise enter the kingdom of heaven.     Many in this world needs to die to mans reasonings

and simply let the truth form in the mind and not try and fit the truth to their own preconceived ideals .    

To make his point , he has to change what JOHN said, what even JOHN three sixteen says and other very clear places state.

For us , we don't have to change , omit or make it make sense.  WE JUST by grace read the scrips and we take them as truth.  

You need to rightly divide the truth and take the whole context, not just John 3:16.

[frienduff thaylorde]

1 minute ago, Robert William said:

It's too late, you can't get out of it because you already said Jesus Atoned for the sins of ALL humans.

Atonement theologically speaks of God's acting in human history to reestablish the original relationship between God and man by dealing with sin. To atone means to make amends, to repair a wrong. Biblically, it means to remove the guilt of man. The Old Testament atonements offered by the high priest were temporary and a foreshadow of the real and final atonement made by Jesus. Jesus atoned for the sins of the world (1 John 2:2). This atonement is received by faith (Rom. 5:1; Eph. 2:8-9).

Man is a sinner (Rom. 5:8) and cannot atone for himself. Therefore, it was the love of the Father that sent Jesus (1 John 4:10) to die in our place (1 Pet. 3:18) for our sins (1 Pet. 2:24). Because of the atonement, our fellowship with God is restored (Rom. 5:10). (See Reconciliation).

 

Robert,  your not seeing what is so simple to see.   You are making complex what should be simple

and it is sad, because this will harm your testimony.   You have some good truth on other posts .  but this will harm you .

JESUS is the propitiation for all our sins and not only ours but the sins of the whole world.  THIS don't mean UNIVERSAL salvation.

IT means EVERYONE could have been saved  YES it does mean that.  BUT many wont , because they will reject the ONE WHO DID THE SAVING.

I throw a rope to a drowing man and he don't grab hold  GUESS what he drowns .   I had the saving rope to offer him, HE REJECTD HE DROWNS,

same concept Robert.  

[Robert William]

2 minutes ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

Robert,  your not seeing what is so simple to see.   You are making complex what should be simple

and it is sad, because this will harm your testimony.   You have some good truth on other posts .  but this will harm you .

JESUS is the propitiation for all our sins and not only ours but the sins of the whole world.  THIS don't mean UNIVERSAL salvation.

IT means EVERYONE could have been saved  YES it does mean that.  BUT many wont , because they will reject the ONE WHO DID THE SAVING.

I throw a rope to a drowing man and he don't grab hold  GUESS what he drowns .   I had the saving rope to offer him, HE REJECTD HE DROWNS,

same concept Robert.  

Joh_3:36  He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Please learn what you preach.

Propitiation

This means the turning away of wrath by an offering. It is similar to expiation, but expiation does not carry the nuances involving wrath. For the Christian, the propitiation was the shed blood of Jesus on the cross. It turned away the wrath of God so that He could pass "over the sins previously committed," (Rom. 3:25). It was the Father who sent the Son to be the propitiation (1 John 4:10) for all (1 John 2:2).

[frienduff thaylorde]

3 minutes ago, Robert William said:

You need to rightly divide the truth and take the whole context, not just John 3:16.

John three sixteen aint the only place it makes mention of it Roberto.

GOD did SEND the son to be the savoir of the world.   JESUS paid the price for all.      FREELY it was offered , but many reject.

WHY.   That is a good question.

and here is why.      Becaues men loved darkness rather than light, and many who do come will not remain due to their love of some sin , some lust , they too will leave.

but not as many think.  many will keep sayings his name and that he is the savoir, yet they will not keep all his sayings , they create a god that serves THEM.

scary huh.   but it happens all the time.  they never knew him.  

[Robert William]

1 minute ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

John three sixteen aint the only place it makes mention of it Roberto.

GOD did SEND the son to be the savoir of the world.   JESUS paid the price for all.      FREELY it was offered , but many reject.

WHY.   That is a good question.

and here is why.      Becaues men loved darkness rather than light, and many who do come will not remain due to their love of some sin , some lust , they too will leave.

but not as many think.  many will keep sayings his name and that he is the savoir, yet they will not keep all his sayings , they create a god that serves THEM.

scary huh.   but it happens all the time.  they never knew him.  

You are describing the natural man born of natural birth who hates God and the gospel.

[frienduff thaylorde]

Just now, Robert William said:

Joh_3:36  He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Please learn what you preach.

Propitiation

This means the turning away of wrath by an offering. It is similar to expiation, but expiation does not carry the nuances involving wrath. For the Christian, the propitiation was the shed blood of Jesus on the cross. It turned away the wrath of God so that He could pass "over the sins previously committed," (Rom. 3:25). It was the Father who sent the Son to be the propitiation (1 John 4:10) for all (1 John 2:2).

That is how it works.  YOU like many will bring truth, yet you do so in a way that will make obsolete other parts.    For this is very true what you just said

BUT it is also true that JESUS paid the price for all the world.    Yet you try and make this OMIT that  .   

you forget the part that WHILE the marriage feast was made for all, not all will accept it.    

[frienduff thaylorde]

1 minute ago, Robert William said:

You are describing the natural man born of natural birth who hates God and the gospel.

YES of course.  but this does not omit that JESUS paid the price for the sins of the whole world.

Many will reject him.   many.  and will end up in eternal damanation. 

 

[Robert William]

13 minutes ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

YES of course.  but this does not omit that JESUS paid the price for the sins of the whole world.

Many will reject him.   many.  and will end up in eternal damanation. 

 

Joh_3:36  He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

This means the turning away of wrath by an offering. It is similar to expiation, but expiation does not carry the nuances involving wrath. For the Christian, the propitiation was the shed blood of Jesus on the cross. It turned away the wrath of God so that He could pass "over the sins previously committed," (Rom. 3:25). It was the Father who sent the Son to be the propitiation (1 John 4:10) for all (1 John 2:2).

• "Propitiation properly signifies the removal of wrath by the offering of a gift," (The New Bible Dictionary).
• "Propitiation signifies the turning away of wrath by an offering," (Baker's Dictionary of Theology,  p. 424).
• The act of appeasing the wrath and conciliating the favor of an offended person, (dictionary.com). 
• "The act of appeasing the wrath," (Webster's dictionary, 1828). 

If you think the Atonement is the propitiation for all humans you are sadly mistaken.

 

[Reinitin]

2 hours ago, Robert William said:

The Old is obsolete, we are now in the New.

Heb 8:6  But as it is, Christ has obtained a ministry that is as much more excellent than the old as the covenant he mediates is better, since it is enacted on better promises.
Heb 8:7  For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion to look for a second.
Heb 8:8  For he finds fault with them when he says: "Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will establish a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah,
Heb 8:9  not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt. For they did not continue in my covenant, and so I showed no concern for them, declares the Lord.
Heb 8:10  For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my laws into their minds, and write them on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Heb 8:11  And they shall not teach, each one his neighbor and each one his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,' for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest.
Heb 8:12  For I will be merciful toward their iniquities, and I will remember their sins no more."
Heb 8:13  In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

 

Just so I get this straight. You believe it's all God? He prepicked vessels for salvation? per picks vessels for destruction? All be fore creation? He measured out believing faith to an elect group? This elect group was drawn by God? Given faith by God? And granted grace by God for salvation. Now the mark of these elect is that they accept the 5 doctirnal points of tulip? But only by Gods devine intervention can a person accept those 5 points? So praise the Lord Jesus Christ who worked salvtion for us who have accepted the Summary of the Synod of dort? If anyone rejects the summary of the synode of dort summary they are still in the sheep gathering pen waiting to be identified by the Lord? something like that?

[Robert William]

2 minutes ago, Reinitin said:

Just so I get this straight. You believe it's all God? He prepicked vessels for salvation? per picks vessels for destruction? All be fore creation? He measured out believing faith to an elect group? This elect group was drawn by God? Given faith by God? And granted grace by God for salvation. Now the mark of these elect is that they accept the 5 doctirnal points of tulip? But only by Gods devine intervention can a person accept those 5 points? So praise the Lord Jesus Christ who worked salvtion for us who have accepted the Summary of the Synod of dort? If anyone rejects the summary of the synode of dort summary they are still in the sheep gathering pen waiting to be identified by the Lord? something like that?

Spot on except the last sentence.

Please read Romans chapter eight and nine and Ephesians chapter one.

Rom 9:8  That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
Rom 9:9  For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son.
Rom 9:10  And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
Rom 9:11  (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)
Rom 9:12  It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
Rom 9:13  As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
Rom 9:14  What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
Rom 9:15  For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
Rom 9:16  So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
Rom 9:17  For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
Rom 9:18  Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
Rom 9:19  Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
Rom 9:20  Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
Rom 9:21  Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
Rom 9:22  What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
Rom 9:23  And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
Rom 9:24  Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
Rom 9:25  As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
Rom 9:26  And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.
Rom 9:27  Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:
Rom 9:28  For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth.
Rom 9:29  And as Esaias said before, Except the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, we had been as Sodoma, and been made like unto Gomorrha.
Rom 9:30  What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
Rom 9:31  But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
Rom 9:32  Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
Rom 9:33  As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.