Mike 2 Posted October 25, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 499 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 277 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/06/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted October 25, 2017 1 minute ago, simplejeff said: The topic/ the subject/ everyone with ears to hear ... ------- being perfect, as Jesus says "you must be perfect" to all the disciples. No, it did not happen at once. No, the disciples EXCLAIMED (at several points) ---- HOW THEN can we (the disciples with Jesus, even the Apostles) BE SAVED ? And Jesus told them what ? "You can't" if you trust yourselves to accomplish this. If you think you already have it made, then you have already failed Jesus told them. BUT, if you completely trust by faith in your FATHER IN HEAVEN to accomplish your salvation (and everything concerned with salvation) now, today, in this life, and in the life to come, THEN you are already saved - it is already accomplished. As Jesus told them another time (the Apostles and disciples) : "You are ALREADY in the KINGDOM, (now, today, as we speak ), START LIVING LIKE IT." So then if this is true, how can a person lose their salvation? I get the impression from your first post in this thread that you feel if we aren't completely following God we either didn't have salvation to start with (in which case we have nothing to lose) or we can lose it. I am confused with your baby analogy eventually working and that it takes time If that analogy is to apply to a new Christian it is indicating that we work towards and keep our salvation based on works. Am I missing your point? You said.....BUT, if you completely trust by faith in your FATHER IN HEAVEN to accomplish your salvation (and everything concerned with salvation) now, today, in this life, and in the life to come, THEN you are already saved - it is already accomplished. How is that different from Rom 10:9 that if you will confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. Seems to me that this will happen at once. ...Now we may not be acting like Christ right away and that will take time...but we're saved 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bro.Tan Posted October 25, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 693 Content Per Day: 0.28 Reputation: 120 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/22/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 25, 2017 20 minutes ago, Mike 2 said: Quote Bro.Tan......Coming under the blood of Jesus is when one gets baptized. Anyone that is not baptized is a person with their sins yet upon them, because it is the baptism that washes away our past sins. "And now why tarriest thou? Arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord." (Acts 22:16) It is not baptism that washes our past sins, it is the last part of the verse you quoted that does...... "calling on the name of the Lord" Rom 10:9 that if you will confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. The confessing with the mouth can be related to the outward expression of something inward. Bro.Tan quoted....(Rom. 11:22) Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. This verse is not about losing our salvation, it is about us not receiving Gods blessings. Think about it...why would God bless us when we are sinning, that would just encourage sin. NOTE in the following verse 23, that they can be grafted back in. This isn't about salvation but about living in the kingdom of God. I am noticing that you are taking most of the verses I am responding to out of context, that's called proof texting. you need to read the passage around these verses or you will not get their complete meaning. We are to baptize, and be baptized in the name of Jesus. There are no exceptions! "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, men and brethren, what shall we do? Then Peter said unto them, "repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts1:36-38). This is a physical act that must be done, calling the name of the Lord. I see you in the business of error, if the Bible says the baptism washes away sins then that's what it does. You don't seem to understand what you read, if that's the case, follow the example Jesus did, when he got baptized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike 2 Posted October 25, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 499 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 277 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/06/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted October 25, 2017 Hey guys, this has been very stimulating I've really enjoyed it but I gotta beat it for a few hours God Bless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplejeff Posted October 25, 2017 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 12 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,689 Content Per Day: 2.39 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 20 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted October 25, 2017 6 minutes ago, Mike 2 said: If that analogy is to apply to a new Christian it is indicating that we work towards and keep our salvation based on works. Am I missing your point? without any regard at this point , just focusing on this statement/question: YES! completely missing the point. The key is to see , Yahweh Willing, in Scripture (as described very well in worthychristianlibrary.com as noted before) , WHAT does anyone who is in ekklesia seek, and do, and continue to do , all together as a group, and individually? WHERE can you go see God's people living ? (tested, proven, walking and living in the light(Jesus) ) ..... as His Word Says. p.s. ASK them, when you go somewhere, IF they want to follow Jesus. Ask them directly, in person. Pray constantly (for days before asking them) , and then observe them (maybe ask some more questions as God leads you), and see if they follow Jesus, or if they follow someone else. Who do they talk about ? Who do they pray to ? Who do they seek at all times to obey ? As God says "Choose TODAY who you will follow" ...... The Corinthians were falling down a lot (from the message Yahweh sent to them), but they were still called His ekklesia, right? The Galatians were tempted to follow another gospel, (from the message Yahweh sent to them), but they were still called His ekklesia , right ? Did they tell one another ----- let's go party and sin and revel today.... then some day come back and serve and worship Yahweh ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike 2 Posted October 25, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 499 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 277 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/06/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted October 25, 2017 10 minutes ago, Bro.Tan said: We are to baptize, and be baptized in the name of Jesus. There are no exceptions! "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, men and brethren, what shall we do? Then Peter said unto them, "repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts1:36-38). This is a physical act that must be done, calling the name of the Lord. I see you in the business of error, if the Bible says the baptism washes away sins then that's what it does. You don't seem to understand what you read, if that's the case, follow the example Jesus did, when he got baptized. The verse you are quoting here is indicating to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, not water Then, maybe I am not understanding what I am reading. I don't mind at all if you have a different point of view than I do and want to challenge me....we learn that way But, Please keep this civil and resist insulting 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplejeff Posted October 25, 2017 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 12 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,689 Content Per Day: 2.39 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 20 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted October 25, 2017 11 minutes ago, Mike 2 said: The verse you are quoting here is indicating to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, not water DELIGHTFULLY in YAHWEH'S WORD, Hebrew language etc, Hebrew/Jewish thoughts and way of life etc, they always immersed in water (living(flowing, 'breathing?' ) water, btw --- not standing or stagnant water) in Jesus' Name. Then , of course, though Yahweh made all things simple, man messed up and came up with many devices.(deceptions and deviations from truth, departing from and opposing His WORD, rejecting Jesus leading) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bro.Tan Posted October 25, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 693 Content Per Day: 0.28 Reputation: 120 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/22/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 25, 2017 15 minutes ago, Yowm said: Saved from what? The calamities? God's wrath? Great deception? etc. That type of self righteousness did not help Paul...the author of Philippians.. Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision. For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh. Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more: Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee; Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless. But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: (Php 3:2-9) Also the salvation they were to 'work out' was the salvation God has already 'worked in'. I don't think you understand what you just quoted, because I agree with all of what Paul said. Because Paul understood what he use to be and knew he had to change and that's what he telling people. Just about everybody in my family goes to church on Sunday. Even I used too, until I read and got taught the scriptures and researched the history of Sunday worship and paganism. Until I read the bible for myself I was in the dark. (1Peter:2:9) “that ye should show forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvelous light:” Open your eyes sisters and brothers and see. Let no man deceive you. You have to stop ignoring other verses that Paul says, because this is all about understand the word of God and reasoning together with the scriptures. Paul said in (1Cor. 15:1-2) (v.1) MOREOVER, brethren, I declare unto the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; (v.2) By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. Paul is telling you right here that you are saved by the gospel that he preached unto you if you keep it in memory. So what happens if you don’t keep it in memory? Then you have believed in vain you have believed for nothing that’s what vain means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bro.Tan Posted October 25, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 693 Content Per Day: 0.28 Reputation: 120 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/22/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 25, 2017 1 minute ago, Cobalt1959 said: This thread is not about the Sabbath. If you want to continue discussion about the Sabbath, you could return to your own thread on the subject that you abandoned because you could never explain how you actually "keep" the Sabbath. Jesus says in Matthew 18:4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4LdKHVCzRDj2 Posted October 25, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 69 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,453 Content Per Day: 0.53 Reputation: 1,453 Days Won: 6 Joined: 11/02/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/23/1991 Share Posted October 25, 2017 7 minutes ago, Sojourner414 said: Or is what you are saying is that they can "walk away from the Lord" on their own? It may be a matter of believing or not, accepting the Lord authority or not. If we submit to the Lord, listen to Him, and follow Him then I cannot see how we can walk away. "But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit, keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life." - Jude 1:20-21 "Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, And to present you faultless Before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy, To God our Savior, Who alone is wise, Be glory and majesty, Dominion and power, Both now and forever. Amen." - Jude 1:24-25 Those who do not believe, despise His teachings and want to walk by their own rules will certainly not end well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyLordsServant Posted October 26, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 479 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 171 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/18/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted October 26, 2017 1. Faith = Salvation (exclusive of 2) 2. Salvation = Works (not exclusive of 1) 3. No works(or sin) = Salvation (mutually exclusive) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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