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Mike 2

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  1. Oh yes I definately know that but I think a lot of people are confused in how "God" works. I believe that the definition of the Trinity is antiquated, that is, the meaning of three persons in one is different today than it was 1700 years ago when the theologians of the time were trying to describe how these 3 different references to God were related, and as the word "person" is understood today it is causing a lot of confusion. At the time that the Trinity doctrine was being formed there was a lot of heated discussion, so much so that some views were considered herectical and those that shared those views were ostricised or even persecuted. The way the definition was understood then is different then the way it is understood today (particularly among laypeople), much like when someone says "you suck" today means 'you're not very good at it' but 50 or 60 years ago if you said that to someone you would have been slapped in the face. To make matters worse, today, in trying to understand the the Holy Spirit as a person, many people try to personify the Holy Spirit by dropping the word "the" from in front of Holy Spirit, that's not biblical. Its no different than dropping "the" from in front of the policeman, the butcher, the hockey player, instead of talking to the policeman you would be talking to policeman, if that is done policeman now becomes personified. Would you call me "the" mike2 or mike2? I think in trying to understand the Trinity as our man made doctrine defines it we are missing out on a clear description of how we are made in the image of God, we are missing on the make-up of God and how the creation proccess works, both in God and, because we are made in his image, in us. We miss out on seeing the perfection in God and therefore understanding the inperfection in us, where, in our decision making proccess we are flawed. There is a proccess that proceeds from the Father through the Holy Spirit that is then manifested (created ) out into the physical world (by the Sons). The gospel of John is one of the best places to find this described but there are other biblical references as well. I am thinking that because we consider them as 3 different persons we are giving each one of them the 3 in 1 creation proccess (which includes the initial thought, the deciding how to do it and the actually doing it) when we should really be looking at the Trinity as the 3 of them together making up the creation proccess within God and together make up God.....now before someone says "each one is God" consider thoughtfully what I just wrote. Each one is God, but the Father or Holy Spirit is not all of God, the 3 must be together (as we see in the Son) to be all of God, they cannot work independantly ........ and ....... ..........hence my question....... Does the Holy Spirit have free will? and I might add on to this..... if we create in a similar way, where is it in the proccess that sin has its effect? (Rom 7:13-20) ......I don't think the Holy Spirit struggles with this...........
  2. The understanding of your query, I may be wrong, is you wonder The Persons of God have individuality to the point of Self actualization... I think in God’s Word this is best answered here: John 14:9-13 (KJV) [9] Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? [10] Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. [11] Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake. [12] Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. [13] And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. Matthew 26:39 (KJV) [39] And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt. As we, in these passages, can glean this understanding: The will of The Father and The will of The Son are one of sameness... yet when it was time for The Son to bear the sins of the world upon His Own Self the reality of loosing oneness of righteousness is reflected in the Son’s desire of letting the cup pass from Him >YET< the righteousness remaining by removing His Will to that of The Father’s that we might have life in The Son ... 1Cor 13 is so wonderfully viewed in this instance from the garden to death on the cross that it should convert all hearts to that of God’s Blessed Persons of Glory but alas it does not I see in this and accept that the Son has his own will and that He chooses to do the will of the Father. But what about the Holy Spirit in the matter. I understand the Holy Spirit to be that part of God that reveals the thoughts of the Father 1Co 2:10 these things God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God. 1Co 2:11 For who knows a person's thoughts except the spirit of that person, which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. Paul goes on to say...1Co 2:12 Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God. These verses seem to indicate that the Holy Spirit understands the... thoughts of God..even the depths of God.. then shares those with us. Does the Holy Spirit have the free will to tell us something other than what the thoughts of God are?
  3. Thanks for your response. BranchesofHim, I am serious with my question because I see verses like this : Joh 16:13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. 15:26 “But when the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness about me. Jayne brings up 1 Corinthians 12:1-11 specifically verse 11 I look at verse 8 For to one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit, I can find other verses that indicate that the Holy Spirit does not act independently because as branchesofHim has indicated the Holy Spirit, together with the Father and Son work as God. Within that though, does the Holy Spirit have free will, or as is indicated in Joh 16:13, do whatever he hears or speaks as part of the perfect unity within God. Does the Holy Spirit have the potential / ability to communicate to the Son (and us as sons/ daughters) other than what he hears? (Joh 16:13)
  4. Does the Holy Spirit have free will? I'm guessing there may be a fair bit of reasoning in any answer but please try to include biblical references to back up your thoughts.
  5. This is a city/ culture he was talking about not an individual like so many of us will encounter. It would be pretty amazing to go into a city and not find anyone seeking God. I think you will agree that in the passage you have quoted the disciples started out with the love thing
  6. I think it is important at this time that we don't hit people too hard with the theological words and biblical passages that will seem condemning. People are already concerned and worried. Some are close to snapping, in time many more will be. Although it may be understood by us here; I think if we approach people using the language the OP is using we will have people thinking we are condemning them, in fact based on some of the responses I have seen in this post some of us are thinking this ourselves.......and we know something about our loving God. We need to be mindful that we are sharing the hope we have in Jesus based on the love and forgiveness he has shown us. Use what we know from the bible to indicate that this and so much more is expected by us because the bible has shown us this..... that bible prophecy has an accurate track record, and that we can trust that what we learn from it is true. The best thing we learn from the bible is the significance of Jesus and what he offers every one of us. Put that pebble in their shoe (that may be all you are asked to do) and save the heavy theology for God 401 when they are able to consume it. Lets not scare people into learning about a God that condemns, lets share about a God that loves Lets give hope in a time when people are looking for hope, in a time when the short life of the material world is coming into focus. Peace and Blessings
  7. This has been taken out of context and given a new meaning! In so doing the poster is implying we are not to go door to door witnessing. That's far from what the bible is teaching in the passage. This is about where the disciple was to dwell while in a town preaching.
  8. Can you give me a reference to that so I can read it as well
  9. God is a person. Any reference to any part of him is referring to Him We are son (and daughters) of God The Father communicates to the Son through the Holy Spirit (1Cor2-10....) When the Holy Spirit is at work we are seeing God at work and if we know its the Holy Spirit and deny it that is blasphemy. Is it really at all possible to truly know that it is the Holy Spirit at work, I mean undeniably in our own spirit, and still say it is the devil? Why would you want to do that?
  10. I don't think it is impossible. If he wanted, if it was part of the plan, he would have had children. It appears from some of the posts here that you are revisiting this question. Logically though, can I suggest that you approach this question in a different way..... "What would be the ramifications if Jesus had a child?' I think if you ask that question you will understand why he did not. (keep in mind what his purpose was)
  11. I do wonder though....where the talent comes from, why are some drawn to one thing and not another?
  12. I've been looking at the spiritual gifts that God gives us in; 1 Cor 12 - The Holy Spirit at work for a time Eph 4 - gifts through the positions in the church Romans 12 - gifts that are a part of our character, that effect the way we view things and engage the world around us. Rom 12:6 We have different gifts, according to the grace given to each of us. If your gift is prophesying, then prophesy in accordance with your[a] faith; 7 if it is serving, then serve; if it is teaching, then teach; 8 if it is to encourage, then give encouragement; if it is giving, then give generously; if it is to lead, do it diligently; if it is to show mercy, do it cheerfully. These gifts are in us, in our own personal nature. My question pertains to the personal gifts in Romans....' Are these gifts not in us before we accept Christ, or does everybody have their particular gift(s) but is not able use it to its fullest, or for what it is intended, without Christ?'
  13. ....so well put..... It is so predictable that we have become cynical and apathetic....even exasperated
  14. I often see the phrase "that is false teaching" on this forum. What is that? Is it something contrary to your belief, is it expressly contrary to a biblical principle or .....? Can you give an example of something you have seen, read or heard recently.
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