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Mike 2

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About Mike 2

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    Jesus said he did not come to abolish the law!! It has a purpose. Gal 3:23 Now before faith came about, we were held in custody and confined under the Law in preparation for the faith that was to be revealed. Gal 3:24 And so the Law was our guardian until the Messiah came, so that we might be justified by faith. Gal 3:25 But now that faith has come about, we are no longer under a guardian. The bible often gives a message pertaining to a group of people that actually pertains to us personally. This is one of those examples. Even though the Messiah has come into the world, if he has not come into my personal world, I still have some Law that I am under that constantly hovers over me, reminding me that I am a sinner. I'd be willing to say that in some way or another all humans are aware of or try to follow the 10 commandments without realizing it. I think we all too often go to the status quo phrase "the Law no longer applies" simply because we have heard it so often and without really knowing what we are saying. There is a context and proviso that goes with that saying that eludes many. I believe Paul was saying we are under the law until we come to faith in Christ. This thought is reinforced by what he says in Romans; Rom 7:7 What should we say, then? Is the Law sinful? Of course not! In fact, I wouldn't have become aware of sin if it had not been for the Law. I wouldn't have known what it means to covet if the Law had not said, "You must not covet." Rom 7:8 But sin seized the opportunity provided by this commandment and produced in me all kinds of sinful desires, since apart from the Law, sin is dead. No law to break....no such thing as sin (think of Adam and Eve) . No sin...no need for forgiveness.... ...no choice...no grace The Law still has a purpose! No longer for me though, because for me , it has served it's purpose in bringing me to the only solution it's designed to do.....faith in the Messiah.
  2. Jesus said this; Mat 5:43 "You have heard that it was said, 'You must love your neighbor' and hate your enemy. Mat 5:44 But I say to you, love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you, No to loving satan.. the bible shows us he will never repent, no amount of love will bring him to repentance his children....should be defined....humans yes, .....,fallen angels, no because they are in the same boat as satan IHeb 6:4 For it is impossible to keep on restoring to repentance time and again people who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have become partners with the Holy Spirit, Heb 6:5 who have tasted the goodness of God's word and the powers of the coming age, Heb 6:6 and who have fallen away, as long as they continue to crucify the Son of God to their own detriment by exposing him to public ridicule. I'm sure if this is true for humans these verses can easily be applied to satan and his fallen angels who have been in the very presence of God. I'm not trying to say this, Our Lord did! Mat 5:40 If anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, let him have your coat as well. Just because our Lord said to do this doesn't mean it is easy. I'm not sure that there are exceptions to what he said either. I'm convinced that the reason for doing this is to start them on the path to a relationship with God....something we already have and are not going to lose over shirt and coat. This is something bigger and more important than my coat. It's a persons salvation and them living a new positive life. That's not what I'm saying at all and that's definitely not what the bible is saying. Mat 5:25 Come to terms quickly with your opponent while you are on the way to court, or your opponent may hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the guard, and you will be thrown into prison. This is another "in danger of " warning Jesus is giving. You have to look at the intent "behind" the things Jesus is saying , towards the spiritual meanings....not just to the letter of the writing or the literal meaning...there is deep spiritual advice Jesus is giving here, but we have to have an open heart and spiritual "ears" that are willing to listen. I think you are trying too hard to justify revenge and are looking for bible verses to prove it, but in light of God incarnate as Jesus and what He teaches in the new life God calls us to.....they're just not there. Ogner, I don't blame you for feeling that way or feeling frustrated, it's a normal human reaction that I feel from time to time too but there is a reason Jesus tells us these things. Forgiveness plays a HUGE, HUGE part in being able to work this out. There's a saying..."Not forgiving is like taking poison and hoping for the other person to die"
  3. I think you are going to the extreme and it's ridiculous to suggest that I may be saying we should be grateful for persecution. Do you not understand what Peter is saying or are you trying to say that my understanding of what Peter is saying is wrong? I'm not trying to be challenging or confrontational, I'm just not sure I understand the way you are writing...please don't be insulted.
  4. I think you are responding to this bible verse... 1Pe 2:20 What good does it do if, when you sin, you patiently receive punishment for it? But if you suffer for doing good and receive it patiently, you have God's approval. I think one of two things is happening between us. 1. There is a language barrier 2. you have an idea in your head and you a trying to make the biblical text work within that Consider what you are saying here; You are saying that Jesus said this when he didn't...look at the different bible versions below, they are by all means not exhaustive . But we HAVE TO CONCLUDE that Jesus is not saying will be sent to hell but is saying is in danger of being sent to hell. These are 2 different things!!! Matthew 5:22 (ABP+) But IG1473 G1161 sayG3004 to you,G1473 thatG3754 allG3956 G3588 provoking to angerG3710 G3588 his brother,G80 G1473 in vain,G1500 shall be liableG1777 G1510.8.3 to theG3588 judgment.G2920 And whoG3739 G1161 everG302 should sayG2036 to G3588 his brother,G80 G1473 Worthless!G4469 shall be liableG1777 G1510.8.3 to theG3588 sanhedrin.G4892 And whoG3739 G1161 everG302 should sayG2036 O moron!G3474 shall be liableG1777 G1510.8.3 forG1519 theG3588 GehennaG1067 G3588 of fire.G4442 (ASV) but I say unto you, that every one who is angry with his brother shall be in danger of the judgment; and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council; and whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of the hell of fire. (BBE) But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be in danger of being judged; and he who says to his brother, Raca, will be in danger from the Sanhedrin; and whoever says, You foolish one, will be in danger of the hell of fire. (ISV) But I say to you, anyone who is angry with his brother without a cause will be subject to punishment. And whoever says to his brother 'Raka!' will be subject to the Council. And whoever says 'You fool!' will be subject to hell fire. (KJV) But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. (KJV+) ButG1161 IG1473 sayG3004 unto you,G5213 ThatG3754 whosoeverG3956 is angryG3710 with hisG848 brotherG80 without a causeG1500 shall beG2071 in dangerG1777 of theG3588 judgment:G2920 andG1161 whosoeverG3739 G302 shall sayG2036 to hisG848 brother,G80 Raca,G4469 shall beG2071 in dangerG1777 of theG3588 council:G4892 butG1161 whosoeverG3739 G302 shall say,G2036 Thou fool,G3474 shall beG2071 in dangerG1777 ofG1519 hellG1067 fire.G4442 (LITV) But I say to you, Everyone who is angry with his brother without cause shall be liable to the Judgment. And whoever says to his brother, Raca, shall be liable to the sanhedrin; but whoever says, Fool! shall be liable to be thrown into the fire of Hell. (WEB) But I tell you, that everyone who is angry with his brother without a cause will be in danger of the judgment; and whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca!’ will be in danger of the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of Gehenna. (YLT) but I—I say to you, that every one who is angry at his brother without cause, shall be in danger of the judgment, and whoever may say to his brother, Empty fellow! shall be in danger of the sanhedrim, and whoever may say, Rebel! shall be in danger of the gehenna of the fire. Clearly the idea of using these verses to say someone is going to hell is wrong and must be put to rest. Rom 12:17 Do not pay anyone back evil for evil, but focus your thoughts on what is right in the sight of all people....... Rom 12:19 Do not take revenge, dear friends, but leave room for God's wrath. For it is written, "Vengeance belongs to me. I will pay them back, declares the Lord." Heb 9:27 Indeed, just as people are destined to die once and after that to be judged,
  5. Mat 5:38 "You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.' Mat 5:39 But I tell you not to resist an evildoer. On the contrary, whoever slaps you on the right cheek, turn the other to him as well. I think you are reading into this and trying to apply your own theology Jesus in the "Sermon on the Mount" is addressing what so many of us are guilty of and that is living to the letter of the law. He is basically saying "if you are just living by the letter of the law then you are missing the point!" Jesus is telling us that we should be living by the spirit of the law. I don't know where you are getting the idea of "Two eyes for eye, and two teeth for tooth and coat for shirt." But what Jesus is saying here is to do just the thing you are struggling with not wanting to do, that is to show love in spite of being mistreated. If you get slapped...you should turn the other cheek resist the evil doer , that is, resist falling into the same sin when you react. Instead of punching him in the face or taking out his eye....or his life....turn the other cheek Really what Jesus is driving home is that there is more to the written law than what we read just on the surface. The people he was talking to in this Matthew passage were living to the letter of the law. We see the evidence of this when we realize that the 600 and something original God given laws have increased to over 30,000 man made laws. It hit over 30,000 because people were looking at ways to get around the literal meaning of the law and in so doing missed the spirit of the law. In attempts to literally instill the spirit of the law more laws were made in order to fill "loop holes". A good example of this is what you have quoted about the Pharisees: In Matthew 5:20 Jesus say, "For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven." The Pharisees were real good at living to the letter of the law and because of it were considered to be righteous by everyone, but Jesus is saying that the people need to be more righteous than that and then he goes on to describe what he means in the verses about turning the other cheek, and the spirit of the law ....guarantee you the Pharisees never did that! One of the things that really stood out about the Law when it was given to the Israelite's in the Exodus was that at that time, for instance, if you took someones eye out or hurt one of their animals, they would kill you and that was that. In that world the Law was revolutionary and counter cultural. To say an eye for an eye was to offer a restriction from...a death for an eye. In following the law God said he would bless the Israelite's. Other nations would notice those blessings, would notice that they followed "different" laws and would ask questions why. That was a perfect opportunity to glorify God. And that's what God's plan was...to reveal himself through the nation of Israel because they were ......different. God now reveals himself through us because we are.....different. We don't take an eye for an eye.
  6. I have worked in prison ministry and I have practiced this many times . I need to point out that murderers and criminals etc are seen as some of the extreme cases but I have to say, I have some relatives that I have to work harder at with selfless love. It requires that we look past what they did and at the fact that they are hurting damaged souls that need Gods unbounding love and we are His ambassadors. It's not any easy task we are called to and again,I'm not suffering through this at this time so it's much easier to say now than when I am. I'm also not going through what you must be going through now particularly with the unrest in your part of the world. However, Peter was and this is what he had to say. 1Pe 2:19 For it is a fine thing if, when moved by your conscience to please God, you suffer patiently when wronged. 1Pe 2:20 What good does it do if, when you sin, you patiently receive punishment for it? But if you suffer for doing good and receive it patiently, you have God's approval. 1Pe 2:21 This is, in fact, what you were called to do, because: The Messiah also suffered for you and left an example for you to follow in his steps. 1Pe 2:22 "He never sinned, and he never told a lie." 1Pe 2:23 When he was insulted, he did not retaliate. When he suffered, he did not threaten. It was his habit to commit the matter to the one who judges fairly. This whole chapter in 1 Peter is worth reading and meditating on.
  7. It's true for either side
  8. . I think we may have different understandings of the word love. The most common biblical example of "love" that I am referring to, as it pertains to God is AGAPE love. You may be considering one of the other definitions below Agape , other centered love will consider that the angry, murderer is missing out on love and joy and therefore anger and hatred steps in. Other centered love sees the pain that is caused by that anger and hatred and knows that it comes from rejection and a lack of love, perceived or real, somewhere in that persons life. Agape love is what is predominate in 1 Cor. 13 8 Different Types of Love “Eros” or Erotic Love. “Philia” or Affectionate Love. “Storge” or Familiar Love. “Ludus” or Playful Love. “Mania” or Obsessive Love. “Pragma” or Enduring Love. “Philautia” or Self Love. “Agape” or Selfless Love.
  9. In this verse Jesus is saying IN DANGER OF, they are on a slippery slope that can lead to these bad things. An example would be if I was angry with someone and unwilling to love and forgive. I would be in danger of my unforgiveness leading me to do something sinful. Revenge can be a terrible thing.
  10. The law was a covenant, a contract. There are 2 ways a contract can be "finished/ terminated" 1) to break it....which the Israelite's did but God did not 2) to fulfill it to completion.....which the Israelite's did not do but God did, incarnated as the man Jesus When the Son of God (Jesus) fulfilled the law( Covenant) it's terms were deemed complete and Jesus (the Son of God) brought in the New Covenant that we read about in Jer. 31:31- 34 He may not have destroyed the law but He unlocked it's chains and it only serves to make those that have not accepted Gods forgiveness captive to their sin. That includes born again Christians.
  11. You have to keep in mind here that he is talking about the forgiveness that has been extended by the Son ......"he that believeth not" is a person that has not acknowledged the need for and the acceptance of forgiveness. The question in the OP is does God love His enemies. God has extended his love and forgiveness to all, but not all will accept that, refusing it. God does not send people to hell, hell is for sin and we are already destined to it because we are dead in our sin. He has produced a ticket to heaven, to new life back into community with Him, for every single created being ....and offered it. To complete that process though, the gift has to be accepted or it cannot be used. As sons of God, we are asked to do the same thing, to offer the gift of forgiveness, even if the gift is not accepted.
  12. It is exactly what Jesus did. He put that redemption right out there...for everyone. Maybe nothing will change, that happened in the story of the servant in Matthew but, we don't know that. And I think you might be surprised to find out how many nasty people changed their way because out of all the people they met one person did something nice to them, showed some love. I think it's important to keep in mind that we are talking about spiritual things here and that as believers we already have the treasure of Jesus and salvation. This is a treasure greater than we will ever use and can never lose. It is separate from anything we experience temporarily in the physical. It is transformative. It is powerful. And if we share it, even with people that the standards of the world say we should hate and turn away from it does not take anything away from the overflowing amount we have. Nothing. We spiritually have nothing to lose sharing that love shown and given to us. That doesn't mean it's easy to do or easily understood why we should do it, after all the bible tells us that Gods love is beyond understanding.
  13. Just remember love and like are 2 different things and require a different effort. Love is something that focuses on someone else and requires an effort on our part as we seek to show a better way to someone. Where as like is a feeling we have and do not have any control over. I have found when dealing with people like you mention that understanding that they are consumed by something , sometimes even knowing what that may be, helps me to understand why they can be so self...ish. Because that's what they are. It doesn't excuse them but it does help me to at least pity them for the agony they are suffering so much that they take it out on me and others.
  14. You are making me think about how we often think that God is punishing when in reality we are suffering the consequences of our sin. I suppose He could say "I told you so" rather than let us blame the consequences of our own doing on Him. But then again...He does warn us. In the same way we may try to blame satan. Although he may be the tempter, it is our own doing that causes us to sin, not the tempter.
  15. I see that ...good for you