Once Saved always Saved, Is A Doctrine Of Devils

[Mike 2]

18 hours ago, Bro.Tan said:

You didn't post the scriptures, plus you have to understand that all verses and scriptures have its place. You have to learn to put the whole puzzle together. Read the whole Bible from Genesis to Revelation. 

A man asked Jesus this very question, "...What good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?", and Jesus replied, "... KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS" (Matthew 19:16-19). 

We still must obey all of God's laws and statues of conduct, from the ten commandments to the least commandment. We cannot choose to obey one without obeying the others. For instance, if it's still good to pay tithes (as many preach), then it is still good to obey God's dietary law (not eating pork, catfish, etc...Leviticus 11:1-47). Similarly, you cannot purposely trip a blind person (Leviticus 19:14) and claim to love your neighbor as yourself. Neither can you break God's Sabbath days (Leviticus 19:30) and claim to love God with all your heart, soul and mind. Many fight to uphold man's traditional holidays (Sunday the 1st day as the Sabbath, Christmas, Easter and Halloween), but few are obeying God's Holy Days (Saturday the 7th day Sabbath, the Passover, Pentecost, etc...Leviticus 23:1-44). All of God's laws are still good and must be obeyed if we want eternal life. We might not be able to observe everything perfectly, but can fight a good fight. If we do this our prize awaits us at the end. "...if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments" (Matthew 19:17).  

 Anybody can claim to have faith, but actions speak louder than words. Faith and works go together and you can't have one without the other. "Here is the patience of the saints; here are they that keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus" (Revelation 14:12).  

 

 

 

The whole passage is bringing to mind the impossibility of getting to heaven by works.

You kind of forgot to include  from your Matthew passage the disciples response to what Jesus said, and Jesus subsequent teaching

Mat 19:25  When the disciples heard this, they were completely astonished. "Who, then, can be saved?" they asked. 
Mat 19:26  Jesus looked at them intently and said, "For humans this is impossible, but for God all things are possible."

The disciples realized that Jesus was teaching that no matter how many or how good we think our works have been....it will never be enough.

As he told the person in this passage...ah but there is one more thing you must do...there is always one more thing we must do and it is always the thing we can't do. We all have that !

When the man asked what HE must do Jesus said YOU MUST KEEP all the commandments....IMPOSSIBLE......

..salvation is only possible through God.

The disciples realized the impossibility of it and therefore there must be another way and Jesus tells us.

Some people are trapped and chained to thinking that they must do works to get in good with God.

I'm free of that way of thinking.

I am though captive to believing that the way I act is perceived as a reflection of our Lord to others and I try my best to portray that in a way that will honor Him.

 

 

[Mike 2]

On 10/27/2017 at 6:00 PM, Bro.Tan said:

I agree with all of Paul you post, know problem with that at all. But Paul wrote about other matters as well, concerning salvation and we can not ignore other writing of Paul. If do not have a clear understanding of the whole Bible from Genesis to Revelation you may have problem with understanding Paul. God had Peter to clearly warn you about some of Paul’s writing.  (2Peter:3:15-16) (v.15) And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; (v.16) As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. 

People we must realize, that it is the keeping of God’s holy laws that separates the righteous from the unrighteous. Paul said in (Titus: 3:8) This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men. You must learn (by the word of God) what God expects of you and maintain his expectations to the end, if you expect to be saved.  

 

 

 

Biting my tongue 

Just too much taken out of context and not a lot of thought going into what the biblical text is really saying.

Edited October 30, 2017 by Mike 2

[Heb 13:8]

7 hours ago, simplejeff said:

those things that it is not noted that those persons are saved by believing but by being Immersed in Jesus' Name,

[Robert William]

20 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

Bro.Tan, question. If believers can lose their salvation and go to hell, please explain Rom 8:35, 38-39. Thank you.

 

4 hours ago, Mike 2 said:

Biting my tongue 

Just too much taken out of context and not a lot of thought going into what the biblical text is really saying.

Mike, amen.

Rom 8:35  Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword?
Rom 8:36  As it is written, "For your sake we are being killed all the day long; we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered."
Rom 8:37  No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us.
Rom 8:38  For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers,
Rom 8:39  nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

[Robert William]

21 hours ago, Bro.Tan said:

I always tell people we have to read the whole Bible from Genesis to Revelation and pray for understanding. Now if you read the next verse it answer your question. Lets read Acts 16: 

30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.

33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.

34 And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house. 

 

 

 

They were all believers, proving believers baptism, not sure what you are trying to prove here.

[Bro.Tan]

2 hours ago, Robert William said:

They were all believers, proving believers baptism, not sure what you are trying to prove here.

The point was about the baptism, after one believe and want to be save. We see another step after on believe. So I post verse 33 & 34.  But don't worry about since you didn't notice.

[Bro.Tan]

7 hours ago, Mike 2 said:

 

The whole passage is bringing to mind the impossibility of getting to heaven by works.

You kind of forgot to include  from your Matthew passage the disciples response to what Jesus said, and Jesus subsequent teaching

Mat 19:25  When the disciples heard this, they were completely astonished. "Who, then, can be saved?" they asked. 
Mat 19:26  Jesus looked at them intently and said, "For humans this is impossible, but for God all things are possible."

The disciples realized that Jesus was teaching that no matter how many or how good we think our works have been....it will never be enough.

As he told the person in this passage...ah but there is one more thing you must do...there is always one more thing we must do and it is always the thing we can't do. We all have that !

When the man asked what HE must do Jesus said YOU MUST KEEP all the commandments....IMPOSSIBLE......

..salvation is only possible through God.

The disciples realized the impossibility of it and therefore there must be another way and Jesus tells us.

Some people are trapped and chained to thinking that they must do works to get in good with God.

I'm free of that way of thinking.

I am though captive to believing that the way I act is perceived as a reflection of our Lord to others and I try my best to portray that in a way that will honor Him.

 

 

 

Jesus will return real soon and reward us all according to our works (Revelation 22:12). Throughout the bible we find that in order to receive eternal salvation we must keep God's commandments to the end. If we make a mistake we must not give up, but continue to strive for the prize (Philippians 3:13-14). The last chapter in the whole bible reminds us of this one last time. "Blessed are they that do his commandments that they may have right to the tree of life." (Revelation 22:14). After this we find only seven more verses in the bible, and none of them does away with God's commandments. The commandments of God are not hard to keep (I John 5:3) and furthermore, they teach us love in the highest degree. If you love Jesus you will keep his commandments (St. John 14:15). 

 

 

[Bro.Tan]

11 hours ago, warrior12 said:

Bro. Tan.    I hope it is not a practice in your church that if one says they believe that Jesus Christ is Lord, you go ahead and baptize them immediately.   This topic has been covered in this forum i am sure  many times and i would not go into details and take the topic down this pathway.  Let's go back to the question and the answer and now to verse 32.  "And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house".     Paul should have answered the question then by saying " believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and be baptized and thous shalt be saved ".    Is it  an error that he left out baptized.  

While baptism is an important part of a believer walk, it is not the factor which determines one's salvation.  It is by the grace of God which gives his free gift to you through your faith as explained in Romans 2. see below. Also every believer should take the step to  be baptized ,

As you may know, many have confessed with the tongue that they believe, but in their hearts doubts remain or they are not sure, hence the reason for that person to learn and take the time to make sure the commitment they take as to being baptized if fully understood.  

 

⁸ For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

⁹ Not of works, lest any man should boast.

If we truly love God, then we will obey, “Every word" that proceeds out of the mouth of God, because we know that man shall no live by bread alone (Matthew 4:4). Baptism is one of those words. In order to be baptized, certain events must take place: You must give up a lifestyle where sin has dominion, (ruler ship) over you. Sin according to 1 John 3:4, Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression (breaking) of the law. You must be taught "The Word", before you can adhere to God's commandments (judgments\statues). These laws are found in the Holy Bible; beginning with Genesis and ending with Revelation. You must believe what the bible says and finally, you must confess that Jesus is Lord. Once this has been accomplished, you are qualified to be baptized in the name of Jesus.

 "And he said unto them, go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." (Mark 16:15- 16).  

 

[Bro.Tan]

23 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

Bro.Tan, question. If believers can lose their salvation and go to hell, please explain Rom 8:35, 38-39. Thank you.

I actually witness this, and seen people leave who have been in the word of God for years. I'm talking about keeping the commandments and all, with very good knowledge and understanding, basically all of what I preach. When a person is really walking this walk, a bond starts to create between you and God, and so the Lord deal with you as son's and daughters.

Lets go into Hebrews 12: 3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds. 4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin. 5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him: 6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. 7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? 8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. 9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? 10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness. 11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.  14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord: 15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;

A good example, is the story of Job, but I learned that people are not as strong as they speak or it may seems. Look at what Peter said in  1 Peter 4:12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you: This is a side of the walk in Jesus Christ most people don't want to deal with, but its good.

Jesus warned us that the road to salvation is straight and narrow and that only a few of us will find it. Many are traveling down the wrong road, which leads to destruction. (Matt 7:13,14) This is because many of us have heard about salvation but few of us want to do what is necessary to get salvation (many are called but few are chosen). Many contend that Jesus did it all and now all we have to do is have faith. The bible says, we must not only be a hearer of the word, but a doer of the word also (James 1:21-22).  

 

[warrior12]

57 minutes ago, Bro.Tan said:

If we truly love God, then we will obey, “Every word" that proceeds out of the mouth of God, because we know that man shall no live by bread alone (Matthew 4:4).

Bro. Tan.  So lets ask the question.  If a man believe and dies before he is baptized, is he saved or not ?.   When Christ shed his blood at the cross, all other sacrifices ended . Believers are now under the grace of God and though the law is not abandoned, it is God's grace through the blood of Jesus Christ which is embedded in that believer.   Paul in Romans 6 has explained this so well.  You can't keep every jot of the law, as you would spend your whole life just trying to do that.    Maybe some others here can shed this light better than i have as i am not a theologian to put it into proper words .     When a believer is saved, there are processes that starts to take place and when he examines the word and compares it with his life, he would make the necessary adjustments as he also has the helper to guide him along the way.   God did not save us and left us on our own, he knows that we would have struggles and trials here and at times we would fall short and he has provided graces for that, like repentance and others to build us up like sanctification.    It is a real time situation that every believer would experience if he is true to himself.

57 minutes ago, Bro.Tan said:

You must be taught "The Word", before you can adhere to God's commandments (judgments\statues). These laws are found in the Holy Bible; beginning with Genesis and ending with Revelation.

As far as I could grasp from the gospels and the NT,  we are not under the law of OT, but by grace.   It is not a licence to sin, but knowing who paid for your sins, not the blood of bulls and others, but by Jesus Christ. He paid it all.  The book of Romans is great in explaining who we are in Christ as born again believers.  But it must be read in context and not cherry pick sentences to get the full meaning of Paul, the apostle of Christ, chosen to be a messenger of his word.  

Think i am done here with this topic as it has been discussed here many times over and my few replies is enough. Thanks for the dialogue. 

Romans 6  King James Version (KJV)

¹³ Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

¹⁴ For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

¹⁵ What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

¹⁶ Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

¹⁷ But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

¹⁸ Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Edited October 31, 2017 by warrior12