Did Jesus die on the 4000th year?

[Keras]

4 hours ago, Abdicate said:

I bet you celebrated the arrival of 2000 on Jan 1, 2000 as the beginning of the millennium too...

No, because I knew that only 1999 years had elapsed since 1 AD, on 1 January 2000.

I wonder if its possible for you to admit your errors. You would gain a lot of credit if you did. 

[When Is Jesus Coming?]

15 hours ago, Abdicate said:

To renew something, it has to have already been giving.

The 'thing' that was renewed were constitutional powers not a co-regency. And that this took place in 13AD not 9AD. You are quite simply wrong.  

The reward for accepting the truth of a matter is greater than any feelings of having made a mistake. The truth shall set you free and put your time line right. 

[When Is Jesus Coming?]

10 hours ago, Keras said:

Oh boy, you two are confused!   Failing to get this basic truth right, puts your whole belief system into disrepute. 

Leviticus 25:10-11    This confusing passage leaves you wondering if the cycle spoken of is 49 or 50 years long. Most people understand it to mean 50, but this view actually breaks Scripture: the requirement that Jubilees follow every seventh Sabbath year. A Jubilee cycle of 50 years falls out of sync with the Sabbath year cycle since 50 is not a multiple of seven. It falls at the right place for the first Jubilee but with each subsequent Jubilee cycle it drifts a year later each time. Only a Jubilee on a 49-year cycle stays in sync (7 x 7 = 49). 

So why does the Bible refer to the Jubilee as a 50th year? Because the Jubilee is based on and derived directly from the Sabbath year cycle, or specifically counting seven Sabbath year cycles = 49 years. By saying to hallow the 50th year, it makes it clear that it is the year following every seventh Sabbath year. It also makes it clear that the Jubilee is not ever the same year as a Sabbath year nor is it on a separate sequence coming every 50th year. It is the 50th year counting from the last Jubilee because it is using inclusive reckoning in its counting.  This truth is paralleled in Daniel 9:25 and other prophesies that use God's number- seven. 

This means each Jubilee is really the first year of the first Sabbath year cycle of the next Jubilee cycle. In other words, the Jubilee year does not interrupt the Sabbath year cycle, but is always followed by the second year of that Sabbath year cycle. In this way, every Sabbath year remains a multiple of seven years away from any other Sabbath year in history.    Ref: Tim McHyde

It's strange you think this when you believe Jesus will return on the 6000th year and God's plan is 7000 years because it means Jesus and God show up on Jubilee years. Jubilee years were when the slaves were set free in Israel, which was a prophetic foreshadowing of mankind being set free. 

Jesus' death was also on the 4000th year another Jubilee year when He set mankind free of his spiritual bondage. And it was the year of the Lord's favour as Isaiah says:

Isaiah 61:2

to proclaim the year of the LORD's favor and the day of vengeance of our God, to comfort all who mourn,

If it was every 49 years this wouldn't work out of course. (do the maths).

Besides Leviticus 25:10 says quite clearly it is the 50th year:

Consecrate the fiftieth year and proclaim liberty throughout the land to all its inhabitants. It shall be a jubilee for you; each of you is to return to your family property and to your own clan.

[When Is Jesus Coming?]

11 hours ago, Abdicate said:

Augustus grants the title “Imperator” and commander to Tiberius which was held only by Augustus himself.37 
In Tiberius was made co-regent with Cesar Augustus 38,39, so then when Augustus died Tiberius wouldn't be rejected as ruler not 
being of the blood of Augustus. 

37 http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Cassius_Dio/55*.html#6.4

38 http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Suetonius/12Caesars/Tiberius*.html#21

39 New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia, http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14717b.htm
 

Luke knew all of this and started counting from 9 AD. 

Imperator means commander

Imperator as an imperial title[edit]

After Augustus established the Roman Empire, the title imperator was generally restricted to the emperor, though in the early years of the empire it would occasionally be granted to a member of his family. As a permanent title, imperatorwas used as a praenomen by the Roman emperors and was taken on accession. After the reign of Tiberius, the act of being proclaimed imperator was transformed into the act of imperial accession. In fact, if a general was acclaimed by his troops as imperator, it would be tantamount to a declaration of rebellion against the ruling emperor. At first the term continued to be used in the Republican sense as a victory title but attached to the de facto monarch and head of state, rather than the actual military commander. The title followed the emperor's name along with the number of times he was acclaimed as such, for example IMP V ("imperator five times"). In time it became the title of the de facto monarch, pronounced upon (and synonymous with) their assumption.

NB: After the reign of Tiberius, the act of being proclaimed imperator was transformed into the act of imperial accession.

See you have misunderstood the situation. It was only after Tiberius' reign that the act of being proclaimed imperator was transformed into the act of imperial accession.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperator

And as for your sources you need to read them with that in mind:

37 http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Cassius_Dio/55*.html#6.4 

 p395 4 Besides doing this, Augustus granted money to the soldiers, not as to victors, though he himself had taken the title of imperator and had also conferred it upon Tiberius, but because then for the first time they had Gaius taking part with them in their exercises. 5 So he advanced Tiberius to the position of commander in place of Drusus, and besides distinguishing him with the title of imperator, appointed him consul once more, and in accordance with the ancient practice caused him to post up a proclamation before entering upon the office.

NB: in accordance with the ancient practice

Nothing here about co-regency just Imperator which was 'in accordance with the ancient practice' as explained in lazy old wiki. 

38 http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Suetonius/12Caesars/Tiberius*.html#21

21  1 Since the consuls caused a law to be passed soon after this that he should govern the provinces jointly with Augustus and hold the census with him, he set out for Illyricum on the conclusion of the lustral ceremonies;30 but he was at once recalled, and finding Augustus in his last illness but still alive, he spent an entire day with him in private.

It says this happened just before Augustus death which was in 14AD and not in 9AD as you claim. More proof we are right.    

39 New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia, http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14717b.htm

There were no citations in your third link, just sources attached below. And I'm not wading through that lot as well to waste more of my time to prove you wrong again. You need to improve your research skills. Perhaps wade through it yourself and so if you can?    

[Keras]

8 hours ago, When Is Jesus Coming? said:

It's strange you think this when you believe Jesus will return on the 6000th year and God's plan is 7000 years because it means Jesus and God show up on Jubilee years. Jubilee years were when the slaves were set free in Israel, which was a prophetic foreshadowing of mankind being set free. 

Jesus' death was also on the 4000th year another Jubilee year when He set mankind free of his spiritual bondage. And it was the year of the Lord's favour as Isaiah says:

Isaiah 61:2

to proclaim the year of the LORD's favor and the day of vengeance of our God, to comfort all who mourn,

If it was every 49 years this wouldn't work out of course. (do the maths).

Besides Leviticus 25:10 says quite clearly it is the 50th year:

Consecrate the fiftieth year and proclaim liberty throughout the land to all its inhabitants. It shall be a jubilee for you; each of you is to return to your family property and to your own clan.

Thanks for proving the start of Tiberius' reign was 14.5 AD. 

Jesus did proclaim a Jubilee year soon after He was baptized. That was in 29.5 AD.  If we add 40 X 49 to that = 1989.5 AD, a year of no significance. I believe there is now a hiatus in Jubilees and the next one will be at His Return.  This is obviously correct, as there has been no actual observance of a Jubilee year since the Israelites were dispossessed of the holy Land. 

Edited October 30, 2017 by Keras

[When Is Jesus Coming?]

On 31/10/2017 at 1:59 AM, Abdicate said:

I shall not refute any more on this subject.

 

 

 

 

Well apart from not addressing anything in my last post refuting your poor interpretation of the three sources you posted to me (which shows a total disregard for the debating process and a lack of respect to the other party), you now refuse to debate this at all. Mmmm it's little wonder why so much of you time line is wrong.  

That said I do respect what you have tried to achieve, it is no small task trying to work out what date it really is but as I said in my other post; this year is not 5993 AM as you think. The tribulation has not begun and everyone can clearly see that. Prima facie.

[When Is Jesus Coming?]

On 30/10/2017 at 8:04 PM, Keras said:

Thanks for proving the start of Tiberius' reign was 14.5 AD. 

Jesus did proclaim a Jubilee year soon after He was baptized. That was in 29.5 AD.  If we add 40 X 49 to that = 1989.5 AD, a year of no significance. I believe there is now a hiatus in Jubilees and the next one will be at His Return.  This is obviously correct, as there has been no actual observance of a Jubilee year since the Israelites were dispossessed of the holy Land. 

(He's not listening/accepting it though) 

I agree Jesus declared a Jubilee year in Luke 4:19. In fact this was on the Day of Atonement (year 4000 AM Jubilee year).

Leviticus 25:8-11

“‘Count off seven Sabbath years—seven times seven years—so that the seven Sabbath years amount to a period of forty-nine years.  Then have the trumpet sounded everywhere on the tenth day of the seventh month; on the Day of Atonement sound the trumpet throughout your land.  Consecrate the fiftieth year and proclaim liberty throughout the land to all its inhabitants.

Instead of Tishri 1 being new year, in a jubilee year it was announced on day 10 (Atonement) when the trumpets where blown. (this is actually a prophetic foreshadowing of the 'last trump' when Jesus will return on this day and every eye will see Him coming on the clouds).

Now I believe Jesus read from Isaiah on 7th October 29AD— Day 10 month 7—Day of Atonement and announced Jubilee, so we agree the timing of this more or less.

However God has not stopped Jubilees as it's still His reckoning of time. Man may ignore this but it is always there just as time is always there. It has nothing to do with whether Israel celebrate it or not. Jubilees were there even before Israel existed. It's one of the ways God measures time, just like with his Calendar as well. 

Adding 50 x 40 = 2000 years to this comes to 2029-2030 AD when Jesus will return at Jubilee on the 6000th year - A year of very GREAT significance.  

As you said your self nothing really happened in 1989. 

This means the tribulation will begin in 2022 - not long to go!

[Dave Watchman]

On 10/31/2017 at 2:42 AM, When Is Jesus Coming? said:

Now I believe Jesus read from Isaiah on 7th October 29AD— Day 10 month 7—Day of Atonement and announced Jubilee, so we agree the timing of this more or less.

I'm very sure it was on 27AD. But that wasn't the Jubilee year. The Jubilee year was 34AD. That was the 50th year at the end of the cycle that began in 457BC.

On 10/31/2017 at 2:42 AM, When Is Jesus Coming? said:

However God has not stopped Jubilees as it's still His reckoning of time. Man may ignore this but it is always there just as time is always there. It has nothing to do with whether Israel celebrate it or not. Jubilees were there even before Israel existed. It's one of the ways God measures time, just like with his Calendar as well. 

The last Jubilee cycle came at the calendar's logical conclusion in 1994.  That marked seven sets of seventy weeks since the 1437BC Exodus. 490 times seven, or 3,430 years. After 1994 all of the prohpetic time periods must read as literal time. The operation of the Jubilee calendar is where we get the translation of time, "70 weeks of years".

On 10/31/2017 at 2:42 AM, When Is Jesus Coming? said:

Adding 50 x 40 = 2000 years to this comes to 2029-2030 AD when Jesus will return at Jubilee on the 6000th year - A year of very GREAT significance.  

If you count Jubilee cycles like that, the seventy weeks of Daniel 9 would be 500 years instead of 490 years. The cycles of Jubilee are counted like this:

49+49+49+49+49+49+49+49+49+49=490 years.

That way ten Jubilee cycles are 490 years. Yes the 50th year is the Jubilee, but that then becomes year number one for the next Jubilee cycle. It won't work any other way.

On 10/31/2017 at 2:42 AM, When Is Jesus Coming? said:

This means the tribulation will begin in 2022 - not long to go!

I think it started already. Or that we're within the 1290 day count waiting for: "for then there will be great tribulation. I think the bad part is being squeezed into the final "third" of the prophetic time period. Everything is probably going to happen within the 371 "days of Noah". Check out the bible's use of "thirds". King David made the Moabites lay down and killed every two, sparing each third person.

12 times in Revelation two thirds are spared, destruction only comes to a third.  The great city is split into three parts.

<---420---><---420---><---420--->

1260 days. 420 minus seven sevens, 49 days, has us at the 371 days of Noah by New Years Eve.

It's written in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars.

Peaceful Sabbath.

[When Is Jesus Coming?]

12 hours ago, Dave Watchman said:

I'm very sure it was on 27AD. But that wasn't the Jubilee year. The Jubilee year was 34AD. That was the 50th year at the end of the cycle that began in 457BC.

The last Jubilee cycle came at the calendar's logical conclusion in 1994.  That marked seven sets of seventy weeks since the 1437BC Exodus. 490 times seven, or 3,430 years. After 1994 all of the prohpetic time periods must read as literal time. The operation of the Jubilee calendar is where we get the translation of time, "70 weeks of years".

If you count Jubilee cycles like that, the seventy weeks of Daniel 9 would be 500 years instead of 490 years. The cycles of Jubilee are counted like this:

49+49+49+49+49+49+49+49+49+49=490 years.

That way ten Jubilee cycles are 490 years. Yes the 50th year is the Jubilee, but that then becomes year number one for the next Jubilee cycle. It won't work any other way.

I think it started already. Or that we're within the 1290 day count waiting for: "for then there will be great tribulation. I think the bad part is being squeezed into the final "third" of the prophetic time period. Everything is probably going to happen within the 371 "days of Noah". Check out the bible's use of "thirds". King David made the Moabites lay down and killed every two, sparing each third person.

12 times in Revelation two thirds are spared, destruction only comes to a third.  The great city is split into three parts.

<---420---><---420---><---420--->

1260 days. 420 minus seven sevens, 49 days, has us at the 371 days of Noah by New Years Eve.

It's written in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars.

Peaceful Sabbath.

Well we're on similar lines in some ways, despite our differences. 

If you believe the tribulation begins by the revealing of the Anti-Christ and his take over of the world along with the re-building of the third temple then it clearly hasn't began yet. I also believe it will last seven years as Daniel says and Jubilee is every 50 years as Leviticus says. Jesus will return on the 6000th year, the 120th Jubilee. 

God bless  

[Retrobyter]

On 10/26/2017 at 4:12 PM, Justin Adams said:

Peace:

Am I understanding that we have 12 years left?
How does this line up with the Hebrew calendar and what years are elapsed so far in their reckoning?

 

Shalom, Justin Adams.

Just be aware that a year to Gentiles is the same as a year on the Hebrew calendar. Even though we use a lunar month, we use leap MONTHS to make up for the differences in timing. It works out the same over all.

By the way, today (11/5/2017) is 16 Cheshvan 5778 on the Jewish calendar (and has been since sundown last night).

Edited November 5, 2017 by Retrobyter