Lucifers creation and rebellion.

[HAZARD]

36 minutes ago, 1to3 said:

Yes I like the way you explain it. Yes that makes sense that the devil-fallen Lucifer- would do that in order to get to Adam through Eve.

 

Sorry if I made it sound that Lucifer now was reduced to being a serpent. That is not what I meant , I meant he either came in disguise as a serpent or better put like you mentioned, he convinced-possessed- the serpent to do his bidding so to speak with Eve in the garden of Eden. 

Lucifer after the fall was stripped of his beauty and reduces to some kind of ugly,entity, angel.  satan and his demons can posses unsaved people and he can oppress Christians who need some cleaning up to do of their walk/relationship with god through His Son Christ Jesus.

But what I was originally pointing out is that Lucifer before his fall from Gods Mercy&Grace was able to walk in the garden of Eden.

that's the understanding i get from reading Ezekial 28:14

 

 

Ezekiel 28:14, Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

Only Lucifer or some other angel could be an anointed cherub. No man could ever be one.

God set this cherub over the earth to protect it, overshadow it and rule it. He did not set the king of Tyre on his throne, for he merely succeeded his earthly father.

This cherub was upon the Holy mountain of God. This could not be said of any earthly king. The mountain of God was the place where Lucifer had his kingdom and throne before Adan's time (Isa. 14:12-14). This throne was on earth as proved from the fact that it was even before the fall of this created angel (V. 13-17).

The walking up and down in the midst of the stones of fire was certainly before he sinned and before Adams time (V. 14). Being perfect in his ways (the laws God gave him to live by) was before his fall, for he was perfect in them and sinless up to the time of his iniquity or sin (V. 15).

Verse 17, Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.

At this time he was cast out of the mountain of God and destroyed from the midst of the stones of fire (V. 16). This gives the cause of the fall of Satan. His heart was lifted up because of his beauty, and the brightness (splendour) of his kingdom, and his authority (V. 17; 1 Tim. 3:6).

V. 18, Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.

These sanctuaries were the ones he had in his pre-Adamite world where he and his subjects worshipped God. He  he put forth his greatest efforts to cause his subjects and those of Jehovah to rebel against Him (V. 18).

The iniquity of his traffic was that of slandering God to his subjects and gradually leading them and some of the angels to rebel openly against Him. The fire coming forth from Lucifer will bring Lucifer down to eternal torment (V. 18: Mt. 25:41; Rev. 20:10).

[1to3]

46 minutes ago, HAZARD said:

Ezekiel 28:14, Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

Only Lucifer or some other angel could be an anointed cherub. No man could ever be one.

God set this cherub over the earth to protect it, overshadow it and rule it. He did not set the king of Tyre on his throne, for he merely succeeded his earthly father.

This cherub was upon the Holy mountain of God. This could not be said of any earthly king. The mountain of God was the place where Lucifer had his kingdom and throne before Adan's time (Isa. 14:12-14). This throne was on earth as proved from the fact that it was even before the fall of this created angel (V. 13-17).

The walking up and down in the midst of the stones of fire was certainly before he sinned and before Adams time (V. 14). Being perfect in his ways (the laws God gave him to live by) was before his fall, for he was perfect in them and sinless up to the time of his iniquity or sin (V. 15).

Verse 17, Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.

At this time he was cast out of the mountain of God and destroyed from the midst of the stones of fire (V. 16). This gives the cause of the fall of Satan. His heart was lifted up because of his beauty, and the brightness (splendour) of his kingdom, and his authority (V. 17; 1 Tim. 3:6).

V. 18, Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.

These sanctuaries were the ones he had in his pre-Adamite world where he and his subjects worshipped God. He  he put forth his greatest efforts to cause his subjects and those of Jehovah to rebel against Him (V. 18).

The iniquity of his traffic was that of slandering God to his subjects and gradually leading them and some of the angels to rebel openly against Him. The fire coming forth from Lucifer will bring Lucifer down to eternal torment (V. 18: Mt. 25:41; Rev. 20:10).

Yes so i don't see any reason to dispute on that, the only thing i was saying is that Lucifers' fall came after the six day of creation, because up until then everything was still good  and that lucifer before his fall did have the right to walk- hover- around the garden of Eden.

[HAZARD]

16 minutes ago, 1to3 said:

Yes so i don't see any reason to dispute on that, the only thing i was saying is that Lucifers' fall came after the six day of creation, because up until then everything was still good  and that lucifer before his fall did have the right to walk- hover- around the garden of Eden.

The pre-Adamite world, that then was, was by God's anger at Lucifer and the society he ruled over, destroyed, "PERISHED."

The world that now is, after the flood of Noah's time was not destroyed, it never perished. Noah and his family and all the animals and birds survived and the sun moon and stars were not darkened?

2 Peter 3:5-7 expresses this clearly in plain human language, "For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing (emerging) out of the water and in the water:

Whereby the world THAT THEN WAS, being overflowed with water, PERISHED:

But the heavens and the Earth, WHICH ARE NOW, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men."

Peter also said these scoffers were / and now also, are willingly ignorant.

 

Have you read my earlier question put to others here which none has yet answered?

 

What were the scoffers Peter talks about in 2 Peter 3:5-7, willingly ignorant of, in your opinion

[1to3]

Hi Hazard;

13 hours ago, HAZARD said:

The pre-Adamite world, that then was, was by God's anger at Lucifer and the society he ruled over, destroyed, "PERISHED."

That is an interesting theory, that the bible does not speak about. It only mentions the seven day creation of ALL that God created.

So from the bible standpoint, I do not know more.

13 hours ago, HAZARD said:

2 Peter 3:5-7 expresses this clearly in plain human language, "For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing (emerging) out of the water and in the water:

This to me seems to be referring to Noah's flood? and not a pre-world before the one Genesis records in the beginning of the Bible.

EXPOSITORY (ENGLISH BIBLE)

Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers

(7) By the same word.—Or, as some first-rate authorities read, by His word. The sense in either case is that the universe is preserved for judgment by the same power that created it. “His word” here does not mean any single utterance of God or passage of Scripture, such as Isaiah 66:15; Daniel 7:9-10; Malachi 4:1. Just as “the world that then was” was destroyed by water, so the present world is being treasured up to be destroyed by fire. Comp. Romans 2:5. Christ Himself, in a discourse which St. Peter heard (Mark 13:3), had made the Flood a type of the Judgment (Matthew 24:37-39). (See below on 2Peter 3:10.) “Unto fire,” or “for fire,” should perhaps be taken with “kept in store” rather than with “reserved.” http://biblehub.com/commentaries/2_peter/3-7.htm

 

[HAZARD]

Here it is again, Isiah 14:12-14,

"How art thou fallen from Heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which dist weaken the nations! For thou art hast said in thine heart, I WILL ASCEND INTO HEAVEN, I WILL EXALT MY THRONE ABOVE THE STARS OF GOD. I WILL sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I WILL ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most high."

The throne, his throne was on earth, he said he would ascend into heaven, exalt his throne above the stars of God. He must have been on earth to want to ascend above the height's of the clouds. He invaded Heaven because he wanted to be the most high.

[simplejeff]

21 hours ago, 1to3 said:

Yes I like the way you explain it. Yes that makes sense that the devil-fallen Lucifer- would do that in order to get to Adam through Eve.

There's no reason ever given to go beyond Scripture,  or to believe such myths and fairy tails.

In Reality, it is told not to do so.

[HAZARD]

1 minute ago, simplejeff said:

There's no reason ever given to go beyond Scripture,  or to believe such myths and fairy tails.

In Reality, it is told not to do so.

This is no fairy tale. Lucifer had a THRONE on earth, he said, "I WILL EXALT MY THRONE ABOVE THE STARS OF GOD,"  and someone with a throne has subjects, and through pride he wanted to elevate himself above God, He said as recorded in Isiah, I WILL ASCEND INTO HEAVEN, I WILL EXALT MY THRONE ABOVE THE STARS OF GOD. I WILL sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I WILL ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most high."

Here it is again, Isiah 14:12-14,

"How art thou fallen from Heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which dist weaken the nations! For thou art hast said in thine heart, I WILL ASCEND INTO HEAVEN, I WILL EXALT MY THRONE ABOVE THE STARS OF GOD. I WILL sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I WILL ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most high."

The throne, his throne was on earth, he said he would ascend into heaven, exalt his throne above the stars of God. He must have been on earth to want to ascend above the height's of the clouds. He invaded Heaven because he wanted to be the most high.

[Justin Adams]

Unless you understand Elizabethan English and the meanings of those words and expressions, you might mistake them. Replenish simply means fill.

Also, when that cataclysm occurred and the canopy crashed down as the waters of the deep let fly, I imagine anyone on the planet would have difficulty seeing the sun moon or stars. No one was left to do so. Noah and his crowd were shut in the ark and not gazing around either but huddled in terror. I imagine that whole land masses of trees and debris the size of Texas crashed around the globe.
And then God remembered Noah...

Edited November 29, 2017 by Justin Adams

[1to3]

 

20 hours ago, simplejeff said:

There's no reason ever given to go beyond Scripture,  or to believe such myths and fairy tails.

In Reality, it is told not to do so.

 

20 hours ago, simplejeff said:

  On 11/27/2017 at 6:12 PM, 1to3 said:

Yes I like the way you explain it. Yes that makes sense that the devil-fallen Lucifer- would do that in order to get to Adam through Eve.

Boy o' boy, one really can be misunderstood here, when someone does not read properly what someone else writes. I am sorry if i am not expressing myself correctly as it seems i am being misunderstood. 

I was not agreeing with anything other than what is written in the bible, i was saying  to Hazard as a way of keeping an open and respectful dialogue with him, that yes it make sense that satan came either as a serpent or possessed the serpent to do what he did to Eve.

The bible is clear that is was a serpent that deceived  Eve.

Now, was it satan who came in the form of a serpent or satan possessed a serpent? the only thing the bible says is that the serpent had guile in it.

Genesis ch3 v1

Now the serpent was more cunning than any other beast of the field which the Lord had made, And he -serpent- said to the woman...

 

So if the serpent was already cunning, some kind of corruption had occurred before the fall of Eve and Adam. It makes sense that Lucifer now satan would corrupt the serpent first before corrupting Adam and Eve.

We read up until chapter 3 that Adam and Eve are still innocent Genesis ch2 v25: They were both naked , the man and his wife,and were not ashamed.  The shame came after they had sinned with by the serpents lure.

In contest of the seven day creation period. The fall of Lucifer had to occur after the seven day creation and before the fall of Even and Adam.

 

So Lucifer was fallen as the serpent was cunning. But according to the bible all was still good on day six and on day seven God rested. So then, the corruption of Lucifer had to have occurred after the seven day creation period.

 

 

Edited November 29, 2017 by 1to3

[Justin Adams]

Also, we have no idea if the 'serpent' was that in name only. Might have been a beautiful winged creature that was no outward threat to Eve. We are not told anything EXCEPT the Lord then told the serpent that it would be 'grounded' so to speak from thence onward.