Forgiveness!

[1to3]

53 minutes ago, Mike 2 said:

 I can forgive someone who hasn't repented (God did)

From my understanding God can ONLY forgive someone who has repented.

53 minutes ago, Mike 2 said:

God's forgiveness is not conditional

from my understanding it is conditional upon truly repenting, truly being sorrowful for our sins and desiring to change from our old sinful ways.

53 minutes ago, Mike 2 said:

God's forgiveness is not conditional, it was done once for all

Yes, It was finished and done ONCE and for ALL on the cross of Calvary.

But not everyone comes to God to repent.

53 minutes ago, Mike 2 said:

I think asking for forgiveness is something we should be doing for the benefit of the person we have wronged. In asking for forgiveness it can only be of benefit to us if we have regret and remorse for the wrong we have done because that may have a much greater impact in mending the relationship we have broken, particularly if it is accompanied with a sincere apology

ok so why do so for people and not for God?

If we truly have repented towards God then we should also begin to become a new nature.

with the new nature, the person we have done harm to will see a change in our hearts and behavior.

If we demand forgiveness from people, we are playing an -ego game-  also in some way.

As you said it should not be demanded, it should be given.

By reverence and subjugation we ask for forgiveness

If the person is good, he will have already forgiven you.

He will rejoice to see you have become a new person in Christ Jesus.

Look to the parable of the father and his son (prodigal son) who took everything and squandered it to come back remorseful.

His father gladly and freely received and forgave him

Edited December 1, 2017 by 1to3

[Mike 2]

I like what David Guzik says in his commentary regarding the prodigal son

c. Father, I have sinned against heaven and before you, and I am no longer worthy to be called your son. Make me like one of your hired servants: The son displays his complete sense of unworthiness and confession of sin - essentials to receive the forgiveness the father would give us. We must come to God willing to be total slaves, but by His love, He makes us total sons.

 

[1to3]

Just now, Mike 2 said:

I like what David Guzik says in his commentary regarding the prodigal son

c. Father, I have sinned against heaven and before you, and I am no longer worthy to be called your son. Make me like one of your hired servants: The son displays his complete sense of unworthiness and confession of sin - essentials to receive the forgiveness the father would give us. We must come to God willing to be total slaves, but by His love, He makes us total sons.

 

Yes isn't that meekness in subjugation?

[Mike 2]

1 minute ago, 1to3 said:

2 minutes ago, Mike 2 said:

I like what David Guzik says in his commentary regarding the prodigal son

c. Father, I have sinned against heaven and before you, and I am no longer worthy to be called your son. Make me like one of your hired servants: The son displays his complete sense of unworthiness and confession of sin - essentials to receive the forgiveness the father would give us. We must come to God willing to be total slaves, but by His love, He makes us total sons.

 

Yes isn't that meekness in subjugation?

The point is that the forgiveness is already been given but it cannot be received until there is repentance.

We don't need to ask for it we just need to acknowledge we are in need of it because we have done wrong 

 

[1to3]

5 minutes ago, Mike 2 said:

The point is that the forgiveness is already been given but it cannot be received until there is repentance.

We don't need to ask for it we just need to acknowledge we are in need of it because we have done wrong 

Yes agreed, just in my heart i feel the need to ask out of reverence and subjugation towards Him.

Edited December 1, 2017 by 1to3

[Mike 2]

16 minutes ago, 1to3 said:

From my understanding God can ONLY forgive someone who has repented.

from my understanding it is conditional upon truly repenting, truly being sorrowful for our sins and desiring to change from our old sinful ways.

Yes, It was finished and done ONCE and for ALL on the cross of Calvary.

But not everyone comes to God to repent.

ok so why do so for people and not for God?

If we truly have repented towards God then we should also begin to become a new nature.

with the new nature, the person we have done harm to will see a change in our hearts and behavior.

If we demand forgiveness from people, we are playing God also in some way.

As you said it should not be demanded, it should be given.

By reverence and subjugation we ask for forgiveness

If the person is good, he will have already forgiven you.

He will rejoice to see you have become a new person in Christ Jesus.

Look to the parable of the father and his so (prodigal son) who took everything and squandered it to come back remorseful.

His father gladly and freely received and forgave him

I share your view

I think your statement that God can only forgive someone who has repented may weigh more into the understanding of Mat.6:15 than we initially think.

If we don't repent, then we don't turn to God to receive the forgiveness that he has already given.

If we put a limit on how much we are willing to forgive we then put a limit on how much we feel we can be forgiven and in that sense God cannot forgive us. Not because He won't or can't but because we don't accept the forgiveness.

I'm not saying that is the meaning of Mat 6:15 but it seems like that way of looking at it in light of the Hebrews and Peter verses of once for all, it makes the most sense.

 

[Mike 2]

 

13 minutes ago, 1to3 said:

Yes agreed, just in my heart i feel the need to ask out of reverence and subjugation towards Him.

That is an honorable and loving statement

[1to3]

17 minutes ago, Mike 2 said:

I think your statement that God can only forgive someone who has repented may weigh more into the understanding of Mat.6:15 than we initially think.

If we don't repent, then we don't turn to God to receive the forgiveness that he has already given.

Repenting is recognizing we are miserable sinners and are willing to turn form our sins.

The thing is that  turning from our sins is done through the Holy spirit coming into us and working in our hearts, our lives.

of myself i can do nothing , it is the Spirit of God working in me that does the work.

I say this as i understand this, god love me yet in sin but waited for me to repent to Him, so that he could reunite with me, live in me and i in Him.

People can repent and behave -good- without true Godliness or without having truly repented to God but having -form of godliness-.

Am i a sinner?

yes, and i have asked God to forgive my sins and ALSO to REMOVE my sins from me.

As God removes sin from me, I become more and more HIS NEW CREATION. i become perfected through him but i am not yet completely perfected concerning my sinful nature that i have to contend with every day.

But not from myself nor from my will but from God working ( by turning my will over to gods WILL) in my heart, transforming my heart to naturally do i no longer wish to do the things i used to do. however the changing into the New creation is a process of awakening.

That is a process, but as long as I am a willing participant in the process, the healing change of heart and transformation keeps going forward.

 

 

 

Edited December 1, 2017 by 1to3

[simplejeff]

30 minutes ago, Mike 2 said:

The point is that the forgiveness is already been given but it cannot be received until there is repentance.

We don't need to ask for it we just need to acknowledge we are in need of it because we have done wrong 

 

This looks directly contrary to much of Yahweh's Word and His Righteous Judgments, including most of all Yahweh's Wrath in the last days, when it is not mixed or followed with Yahweh's Mercy for those it is directed towards by Yahweh perfectly.

[1to3]

32 minutes ago, simplejeff said:

1 hour ago, Mike 2 said:

The point is that the forgiveness is already been given but it cannot be received until there is repentance.

We don't need to ask for it we just need to acknowledge we are in need of it because we have done wrong 

 

This looks directly contrary to much of Yahweh's Word and His Righteous Judgments, including most of all Yahweh's Wrath in the last days, when it is not mixed or followed with Yahweh's Mercy for those it is directed towards by Yahweh perfectly.

Hi Jeff;

I don't understand why you would say that Mike 2 comments are contrary to Yahweh's Word.

Is it not scriptural fact that Christ Jesus already paid the penalty for the sins of mankind on the cross of Calvary? It is finished.

so in that way Mik 2 statement: the forgiveness is already been given     is scripturaly correct

But it is not EVERY mankind that will come to the cross and repent.

so therefore when Mike 2 writes:"it cannot be received until there is repentance." that also is also scripturaly correct

Repenting to God is acknowledging with true sorrow in our hearts of our wrongs and  becoming willing to no longer go in our wrongs by asking God to become Lord and Savior of over our lives and be willing from that point onwards to turn our will over to His will by becoming subjugated to Him and His ways and no longer to the devil and his ways.

 

Edited December 1, 2017 by 1to3