Distant black hole holds surprises about the early universe

[Enoch2021]

4 minutes ago, Kevinb said:

Ah okay.. so nothing besides biblical assertion... shame. 

Yes, Nobody has a Time Machine. What did you expect: A Picture of Adam?  A Lock of Eve's Hair?  Other? 

The Bible... is weighted on it's adherence to standards of Historical Documentation.

 

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The bible indicates a day and night days before the sun.

Yes, but that wasn't your initial complaint.  Your initial complaint was: How did Plants survive "DAYS" without the Sun?  Which was answered quickly and precisely.

 

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Not going to relive evolution again.

Ergo...it's a Fairytale.

 

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Clearly science doesn't support Adam and eve.

This is Non-Sequitur as noted previously. 

 

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Re the flight and such... we've done this many times too...

Who is "We've"?

 

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such that as the earth curvature "falls" so does the plane based on atmospheric pressure to maintain height. 

What's the Mechanism to descend 2,777 feet over half a mile every minute ...? 

More Importantly, why have I... who've flown over 200 Times, or anyone EVER since the Wright Brothers... not experienced this Roller Coaster Ride?

 

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The rest of the copy and paste

Copy and Paste, eh?  Can you share the rationale of What on Earth does Copy and Paste have to do with the Veracity of the Message? Would it be better if I typed it out?
Define Non-Sequitur (Fallacy)..?

What if a Professor wrote up a lesson plan, then wrote on the board: "Protein Secondary Structure is crucial for functionality and is conferred by Functional Sequence Complexity (Primary Structure), and Hydrogen Bonding". 
Then later that evening, decided to email the class the exact same text...but didn't feel like writing it out again....so merely "Copy and Pasted" from the lesson plan to the email.
Is the message in the email now COMPROMISED...because it was Copy and Pasted??
You wouldn't happen to be Pre-Law by chance?
Would the students dismiss it out of hand due to lack of credibility? 

This is Tantamount to saying: Your Case is Refuted because you: wrote it in German, submitted it on Legal Paper (wrong Stationary), used 'Word Pad" instead of "Microsoft Word", it's in Blue Ink rather than Black, used the wrong Font, Folded it, Stapled it, ad nauseam.

I mean, R-Ya-Kiddin me sir?

 

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The rest of the copy and paste and the container stuff I agree on the theory

1.  What "Theory"?? I posted 5 DIFFERENT Proofs...do you think that's all just A "Theory"? That doesn't even make sense.

2.  Agree/Disagree have no place in our discussion.  Something is either True or False.

3.  If you 'agree' with: The Salt Flats/NATO Sea Sparrow/Lack of Coriolis Effect/The Container (Pressurized System) ...THEN: You're a Flat Earther.  

 

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however the issues are only there is you have presupposed flat earth.

Huh?   No I PreSupposed a 'Spinning-Ball' then I took it to the Woodshed and gave it "What For!!"

 

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Done all this stuff before.

Just because you've 'purportedly' done something before doesn't magically transfer veracity to that something.

 

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Just for others to see the knot people get in vs reality when they've already accepted the biblical before assessing evidence.

It's called simple logic.  Ya see...

There are ONLY Two Possible World-Views (Ontological Primitives) that can be held to account for how we (Universe/Us) are here;

Unguided -- Nature (Matter)  or   Guided -- Intelligent Agency (God)

George Wald (Nobel Laureate Medicine and Physiology)...

“The reasonable view was to believe in spontaneous generation; the only alternative, to believe in a single, primary act of SUPERNATURAL CREATION. THERE IS NO THIRD POSITION." 
Wald, G., “The Origin of Life,” Scientific American, 191 [2]: 45-46, 1954.
http://www.academia.edu/2739607/Scientific_GOD_Journal  (Page 175-176)

Let's break this down so you can see it...

1: "The reasonable view was to believe in spontaneous generation".  Nature (UnGuided)

The Only Alternative ...

2: "a single, primary act of supernatural creation." God (Guided)

True Dichotomy: Nature (UnGuided) vs. God (Guided); "THERE IS NO THIRD POSITION".

If you outright refute/deny One Choice; THEN, based on the Laws of Logic --you Ipso Facto MUST 'believe' the other.
Disjunctive Syllogism:  A logical argument of the form that if there are only two possibilities, and one of them is ruled out, then the other MUST BE TRUE.

Natural Phenomena vs    Intelligent Design (God)

     (Atheism)                            (Idealism)

Therefore, The Atheist's "Creator" MUST BE ...:  "Matter "/(Nature)...i.e., Philosophical Naturalism/Realism.  <--- This has been Scientifically Falsified by Quantum Mechanics.

Essentially...

1.  The Universe had a Beginning.
2.  The Universe is made of Matter.
3.  Matter is The Consequent, "A Knower" is The Necessary Antecedent.
(SEE: Quantum Mechanics, 1LOT and 2LOT)
4.  Therefore: "A CREATOR".  Voila
ps.  Philosophical Naturalism/Realism aka: atheism is PUMMELED.

Your only other choice is "Matter" Pre-Existed before it Existed then Poofed itself into Existence. (before that... it Poofed itself from Nothing into Pre-Existence.)

 

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Therefore you've got to not accept evidence for black holes... General relativity and so forth.

I don't "accept" these ^^^^^ in the same way I don't "accept" 3 Toed Gnomes: Because they're FAIRYTALES. 

In the particular case of General Relativity (and therefore, Black Holes), 'gr and sr' were Falsified by 3rd Graders at recess 15 minutes after their respective publications THEN... "Officially" Scientifically Falsified by Quantum Mechanics Experiments...in the Thousands Without Exception.

All this has been Explained and Illustrated to you personally on this forum > 25 TIMES!

 

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These are legitimate problems for flat earth and dome. You've just dodged. 

 There are ZERO Problems.  I didn't dodge anything.

 

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snarkily calling me professor doesn't help matters.

I noticed you didn't utter a PEEP in response to my evaluation. 

 

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Back on block before things deteriorate

That was Quick!!  Wise Move. 

ps. that's not gonna save your arguments.

 

regards 

[Tristen]

7 hours ago, Kevinb said:

 Yet scientific understanding contradicts the biblical 6 day creation story let alone it's in the wrong order . Ie day and night several days before the sun. Science doesn't support Adam and eve... this is biblical presupposition.

On Enoch... he won't like black holes discussed here because they came about by Einsteinian physics pre observations...as did hawking radiation. This is because of his biblical presuppositional stance of flat earth... as described in the bible... firmament magic dome and such. I must say I agree the bible indicates this but being a non believer... it's not supported by evidence... along with the rest of the claims. Pre supposing prior and believing before investigation and a shred of evidence is the entire problem.  

“Yet scientific understanding contradicts the biblical 6 day creation story let alone it's in the wrong order . Ie day and night several days before the sun.”

Only secular stories about the past “contradict” the Biblical account. There is no fact, no actual observation, contradicting anything the Bible claims – none whatsoever. Such exaggerated confidence in the unobserved clearly demonstrates the influence of secular bias applied to the facts – as does your characterising these stories as “scientific understanding”.

 

“Science doesn't support Adam and eve”

If “Science” doesn't support unobserved/unobservable claims about the past – then it doesn't support any of them (without a fallacious appeal to Special Pleading).

 

“this is biblical presupposition”

I am glad to see you have the capacity to recognise “presupposition”. It is unfortunate that you can't recognise the role it plays in your own, preferred arguments. But you are right, “Adam and eve” “is biblical presupposition”.

[MorningGlory]

4 hours ago, Enoch2021 said:

 

It's just that simple. 

Capisce?

regards

I would really love to see a post that is not cut and pasted from prewritten scripts and not seventeen pages long.  You can't win an argument by drowning the other person in canned rhetoric and repetitive nonsense.  Now please explain how these massive, powerful telescopes all over the world are looking at black holes, galaxies, nebula, stars, solar systems, etc. if they don't exist.  Explain why we can SEE rockets taking off, we can SEE satellites travel across the night sky and can SEE the ISS if in the right place.  Explain how we can SEE the curve of the Earth while flying five miles or so up in the atmosphere.  Explain how the sun and moon inside a dome wouldn't be visible ALL the time.  Explain how meteors and asteroids hit the Earth through a dome. 

[Enoch2021]

11 hours ago, MorningGlory said:

I would really love to see a post that is not cut and pasted

Now I just PUMMELED this very same appeal above, but that didn't stop you from appealing to it again? 

 

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I would really love to see a post that is not cut and pasted from prewritten scripts and not seventeen pages long. 

Your claim here is tantamount to a Defense Attorney appealing to the Judge and Jury by saying:

"The Prosecutor has pages of pre-prepared proofs indicting my client and keeps on repeating the same boring/tedious things over and over again: Finger Prints on The Murder Weapon, DNA of the my client underneath the victims fingernails, CCT capturing my client in the very act of murder...BUT Ladies and Gentleman, since the Prosecutor has pages of these proofs pre-prepared and has Cut and Pasted them from his Notebook into the Court Record; Therefore, My Client is INNOCENT !!! ... I move for an Acquittal with the Court's deepest apologies.  

 

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Now please explain how these massive, powerful telescopes all over the world are looking at black holes, galaxies, nebula, stars, solar systems, etc. if they don't exist.

First... they power up the telescopes THEN Suddenly...look through the optics and see Lights in the Sky.

Second... they then assign by mere fiat the "Pre-Ordained Watch Words": galaxies, nebula, stars, and solar systems.

The End.

 

ps.  They don't see black holes.

 

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Explain why we can SEE rockets taking off

Well we go to a Launch Pad; then after 10...9...8...7 ect we all of a sudden... "LOOK".

ps.  I'm not refuting combustion or flight. 

 

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we can SEE satellites travel across the night sky

These ??...

 

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and can SEE the ISS if in the right place.

Show a Pic...?

 

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Explain how we can SEE the curve of the Earth while flying five miles or so up in the atmosphere.

Imagination. 

So you can see 'the curve of the Earth' at 26,400 Feet (5 Miles) but at 121,000 Feet (23 miles), it's FLAT...

SEE the Problem?

 

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Explain how the sun and moon inside a dome wouldn't be visible ALL the time.

Well if the Sun and Moon each had a diameter of ~33 miles and a distance from us of 3-5 thousand miles then it would merely be a Matter of Perspective.

 

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Explain how meteors and asteroids hit the Earth through a dome. 

Everything in what is called 'the universe' is INSIDE the Dome/Firmament including the Sun, Moon, and Stars.  Just like God Said...

(Genesis 1:14-15) "And God said, Let there be lights IN the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:  {15} And let them be for lights IN the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so."

 

regards

[MorningGlory]

1 hour ago, Enoch2021 said:

Now I just PUMMELED this very same appeal above, but that didn't stop you from appealing to it again? 

 

Your claim here is tantamount to a Defense Attorney appealing to the Judge and Jury by saying:

"The Prosecutor has pages of pre-prepared proofs indicting my client and keeps on repeating the same boring/tedious things over and over again: Finger Prints on The Murder Weapon, DNA of the my client underneath the victims fingernails, CCT capturing my client in the very act of murder...BUT Ladies and Gentleman, since the Prosecutor has pages of these proofs pre-prepared and has Cut and Pasted them from his Notebook into the Court Record; Therefore, My Client is INNOCENT !!! ... I move for an Acquittal with the Court's deepest apologies.  

 

First... they power up the telescopes THEN Suddenly...look through the optics and see Lights in the Sky.

Second... they then assign by mere fiat the "Pre-Ordained Watch Words": galaxies, nebula, stars, and solar systems.

The End.

 

ps.  They don't see black holes.

 

Well we go to a Launch Pad; then after 10...9...8...7 ect we all of a sudden... "LOOK".

ps.  I'm not refuting combustion or flight. 

 

These ??...

 

Show a Pic...?

 

Imagination. 

So you can see 'the curve of the Earth' at 26,400 Feet (5 Miles) but at 121,000 Feet (23 miles), it's FLAT...

SEE the Problem?

 

Well if the Sun and Moon each had a diameter of ~33 miles and a distance from us of 3-5 thousand miles then it would merely be a Matter of Perspective.

 

Everything in what is called 'the universe' is INSIDE the Dome/Firmament including the Sun, Moon, and Stars.  Just like God Said...

(Genesis 1:14-15) "And God said, Let there be lights IN the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:  {15} And let them be for lights IN the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so."

 

regards

So there is no universe and everything we see is faked? Telescopes are preprogammed to show things that don't exist?  Have you ever reread your own posts?  Do you seriously believe anyone besides your fellow CTs accepts such ridiculous nonsense??  That picture of the balloon could be anything from anywhere and yet you post it over and over like it's the Holy Grail of flat earth proof.  Have you gone from 'scientist' to 'attorney' now?  I have an idea.  Why not come into the real world and accept that  God made what we can see and the universe is not the way you want it to be.  You'll have to accept the truth at some point, Enoch; why not start now?  Btw, you didn't 'pummel' anything in the long convoluted post to KevinB.  You simply reiterated the same old stuff.

[Enoch2021]

2 minutes ago, MorningGlory said:

So there is no universe and everything we see is faked?

Nope. Straw Man (Fallacy): I never said that or implied it.

 

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Telescopes are preprogammed to show things that don't exist? 

Nope. Straw Man (Fallacy): I never said that or implied it.

 

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Have you ever reread your own posts?

Yes

 

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Do you seriously believe anyone besides your fellow CTs accepts such ridiculous nonsense??

No because you made it up.

What's a "CT"??

 

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That picture of the balloon could be anything from anywhere and yet you post it over and over like it's the Holy Grail of flat earth proof.

1.  That Picture along with thousands of others is from "NASA" launching Satellites on Balloons from New Zealand...
https://www.nasa.gov/feature/wallops/2017/nasas-super-pressure-balloon-takes-flight-from-new-zealand

2.  Satellites on Balloons are not a Flat Earth Proof; they're a Proof of Satellites on Balloons. 

 

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 Have you gone from 'scientist' to 'attorney' now?

In a sense.  We are providing cases in SUPPORT of our arguments/positions to the Public Court for adjudication. 

 

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I have an idea.

Me too. For starters, Why don't you attempt to refute my "ACTUAL" arguments/positions in lieu of the ones you conjure. 

 

regards

 

[MorningGlory]

1 hour ago, Enoch2021 said:

Nope. Straw Man (Fallacy): I never said that or implied it.

 

Nope. Straw Man (Fallacy): I never said that or implied it.

 

Yes

 

No because you made it up.

What's a "CT"??

 

1.  That Picture along with thousands of others is from "NASA" launching Satellites on Balloons from New Zealand...
https://www.nasa.gov/feature/wallops/2017/nasas-super-pressure-balloon-takes-flight-from-new-zealand

2.  Satellites on Balloons are not a Flat Earth Proof; they're a Proof of Satellites on Balloons. 

 

In a sense.  We are providing cases in SUPPORT of our arguments/positions to the Public Court for adjudication. 

 

Me too. For starters, Why don't you attempt to refute my "ACTUAL" arguments/positions in lieu of the ones you conjure. 

 

regards

 

Here's my rebuttal to all these silly claims....they are rubbish.  You're an educated man, obviously.  Why do you persist in this nonsense?  Do you even believe it yourself?

[MorningGlory]

1 minute ago, Sojourner414 said:

I'm starting to wonder if we're just dealing with a highly sophisticated "bot"?

As for the "black hole", I know exactly what it is and folks can relax....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

...it's actually my hamper for my dirty socks!

[BeyondET]

On December 26, 2017 at 2:50 PM, Enoch2021 said:

There are no "PLANETS" mentioned in Scripture either.

However, I will accept Scientific Evidence (you Wholesale DODGED that part ) ...

a.  What Phenomenon was Observed...?
b.  Post the Formal Scientific Hypothesis then EXPERIMENT that validates your claim...?
c.  Highlight the "Independent Variable" that was used in the TEST...?
d.  Post the Null Hypothesis that was Rejected/Falsified...?

 

regrads

The word "Planets" is mentioned in scripture, search it.

[BeyondET]

On December 28, 2017 at 11:26 AM, Enoch2021 said:

Now I just PUMMELED this very same appeal above, but that didn't stop you from appealing to it again? 

 

Your claim here is tantamount to a Defense Attorney appealing to the Judge and Jury by saying:

"The Prosecutor has pages of pre-prepared proofs indicting my client and keeps on repeating the same boring/tedious things over and over again: Finger Prints on The Murder Weapon, DNA of the my client underneath the victims fingernails, CCT capturing my client in the very act of murder...BUT Ladies and Gentleman, since the Prosecutor has pages of these proofs pre-prepared and has Cut and Pasted them from his Notebook into the Court Record; Therefore, My Client is INNOCENT !!! ... I move for an Acquittal with the Court's deepest apologies.  

 

First... they power up the telescopes THEN Suddenly...look through the optics and see Lights in the Sky.

Second... they then assign by mere fiat the "Pre-Ordained Watch Words": galaxies, nebula, stars, and solar systems.

The End.

 

ps.  They don't see black holes.

 

Well we go to a Launch Pad; then after 10...9...8...7 ect we all of a sudden... "LOOK".

ps.  I'm not refuting combustion or flight. 

 

These ??...

 

Show a Pic...?

 

Imagination. 

So you can see 'the curve of the Earth' at 26,400 Feet (5 Miles) but at 121,000 Feet (23 miles), it's FLAT...

SEE the Problem?

 

Well if the Sun and Moon each had a diameter of ~33 miles and a distance from us of 3-5 thousand miles then it would merely be a Matter of Perspective.

 

Everything in what is called 'the universe' is INSIDE the Dome/Firmament including the Sun, Moon, and Stars.  Just like God Said...

(Genesis 1:14-15) "And God said, Let there be lights IN the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:  {15} And let them be for lights IN the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so."

 

regards

The only problem is with your flat earth theory is your using flat two dimensional photos.