LAWS of Jesus

[mven222]

29 minutes ago, John Robinson said:

Wow, pride much? And FYI, I'm a 66-year-old, grizzled MALE Army vet. Which means your "honey" poke falls a bit flat.

And by the way, you can end your posts with as many "lol's" as you wish; it doesn't make your daft theology any more palatable. Or right.

I know that u r a Military Officer. I PAY TRIBUTE TO YOU. Read my posts and threads about Trump and the coming war in Iraq.

Edited December 26, 2017 by mven222

[GandalfTheWise]

22 minutes ago, mven222 said:

Brother, let me say so: If I will not avoid sinning (killing) DELIBERATELY MAKING MY PART in the process of deliverance from sin, my hand will cut off the head of another man...another victim. lol You see?

To abandon sins/lovers in repentance I should make MY PART - ABANDONING it/abandoning lovers. Conviction makes change in my brain and life. God makes His part: God forgives ONLY if repentance means ABANDONING of sins.

 

Killed? Do not kill anymore. Jesus says.

Had sexual immorality? Do not practice that anymore.

If we STOP committing sins, we are forgiven. If we live in sins and sexual immorality being Christians we are pigs and swine in the mud pit and our God Jesus promised to vomit us. lol

My understanding of what is being said is that Christian perfection (lack of any sin) is something that we either accomplish or do not accomplish on our own efforts through our choices to do so or not.  I further understand this to imply that this is the requirement and standard of being saved.  I am understanding what is being said to be equivalent to this:  Each individual is completely responsible for stopping all sins in their life.  If they do this, then they are saved.  If they do not stop all forms of sin in their life, then they cannot be saved.

I disagree with this.  My understanding of scripture is that repentance is the recognition that we are sinners before God, the recognition that we need to change, and the willingness to want to change.  This does not mean that we have the strength and capability of doing it completely on our own without God transforming us first. Indeed, part of repentance is recognizing the need for change and the confession to God that we are unable to do it on our own and that we need His help to do so.   We can try and make some positive changes.  There are some sins we can just simply stop doing on our own and should stop doing.  But freedom from the bondage of sin comes through God's power.   I believe that it is through God's transforming changes in our lives that we find more and more freedom from sin as we grow and mature.  I further believe that God's transformation is not rooted primarily in our efforts to do good things and trying not sin, but rather the Holy Spirit coming inside of us and starting to change us.   But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control.  Gal 5:22-23 NIV  Self-control is not something that we decide we are going to have and one day we just start using it to stop sinning.  Self-control is something that grows stronger inside of us as God changes us.

We can certainly avoid some sins through our own efforts and we should.  I personally have no temptation toward drunkenness or intoxication.  Avoiding that is trivial for me.  I have no temptation to go steal.  Avoiding stealing is trivial for me.  I used to struggle (for many years) with getting annoyed, frustrated, and angry with people.  I usually avoided any blatant sins of yelling at people (though I did once in a while) and never did any violence toward anyone.  But, I was bound by that.  It was something that deeply affected me inside.  I could mitigate it and mostly avoid doing overt things, but it was there inside of me.  It took a healing work on God's part to change me inside.  I no longer struggle with this.  This was not a matter of me trying harder; it was a matter of God doing something that changed me.  Over decades of observing Christians and listening to testimonies, I've seen many things in many people lives that required God's intervention to change them to eliminate sins and various problems.  We should not be satisfied with being able to mostly manage our personal besetting sins;  we should only be satisfied with God dealing with those things so we are no longer in bondage to them.

My issue with what is being said is that it assumes that we have complete power over sin in our lives and never need God's deliverance from bondage.  We of course should stop doing those sins that we are not in bondage to.  I'm not in bondage to alcohol or drugs.  Avoiding being intoxicated is easy for me. Of course, I should avoid it.   I'm not in bondage to coveting things.  Avoiding stealing is easy for me.  Of course, I should not steal.  But each of us has particular sins that we are in bondage to.  We need God's help, power, and deliverance to be changed and transformed so that those things no longer hold us in bondage.  I was in bondage to being hurt and frustrated with people.  I could mostly avoid sinful behavior, but I was in bondage to it.  It took a healing work on God's part in my life so that this was not longer a problem for me.  I don't act that much differently on the outside, but on the inside I am very different.  From what I've seen, I think that all Christians have certain sins and bondages in their life that it will take God's power to deal with.

I do NOT believe that Christians will or should continue on sinning.  I do believe that spiritual growth, maturity, and abiding in Christ are the things that break the bondage of sin and free us from it.  It is consistent time spent in prayer, in study of scripture, meditation, time with other Christians, and similar spiritual practices and disciples where we draw closer to God that cause us to grow spiritually and to change.  God's plan for us as Christians is to be transformed into new creations.  We can take responsibility for avoiding some sins that we are not in bondage to, but there are some things that we simply cannot do on our own and require God to change something inside of us to free us from those things.

Our forgiveness in Christ is only contingent on our willingness to let God make these changes, it is NOT contingent on our actual ability to completely change ourselves and be completely successful at it.  When we first give our hearts to Christ, God forgives us.  The penalty of sin is gone.  Then, the transformation work begins.  Most things we can simply change and stop doing from day one.  However, we each have particular things unique to us that require spiritual growth, more maturity, and God's direct intervention and change inside of us to get rid of.  My observations of many Christians over decades is that this is often a process.

 

[mven222]

The wise, thank u. I will respond tomorrow. I am on my phone now...it is difficult to respond here.

[Guest shiloh357]

1 hour ago, mven222 said:

Honey, I came to you to teach you what your American churches do not teach.

Yeah, you are not in a position to teach us.   You don't know us and don't know what we have been taught.  You do not teach us.  If you want to discuss, that's fine.   But you don't need to bother thinking you can come here to stand as our teacher.

You need to lose the pride and arrogance.

[mven222]

Lol

 I cannot stop being a teacher..cuz i am. I cannot stop being a preacher cuz i am. And i send million lols to ur friend a military officer.

 

Edited December 26, 2017 by mven222

[GandalfTheWise]

9 minutes ago, mven222 said:

The wise, thank u. I will respond tomorrow. I am on my phone now...it is difficult to respond here.

That's fine.  I'm not in any hurry.

[John Robinson]

3 minutes ago, mven222 said:

Lol

 I cannot stop being a teacher..cuz i am. I cannot stop being a preacher cuz i am. And i send million lols to ur friend a military officer.

 

Okay, enough of the craziness. Putting her on ignore.

[Guest shiloh357]

5 minutes ago, mven222 said:

Lol

 I cannot stop being a teacher..cuz i am. I cannot stop being a preacher cuz i am. And i send million lols to ur friend a military officer.

 

The problem is that you don't get to be everyone's teacher.   You earn the right to be my teacher.  I don't allow just anyone to teach me.   And I will tell you this:   Based on your posts, you are a false teacher and not a teacher of the truth and all true Christians would be well advised to reject your false gospel of works-based righteousness.    Your doctrine is a perversion of the Scriptures.

Edited December 26, 2017 by shiloh357

[mven222]

13 minutes ago, John Robinson said:

Okay, enough of the craziness. Putting her on ignore.

Yes. IGNORE me. But you cannt ignore His words i have shown to u today.

[mven222]

36 minutes ago, John Robinson said:

Okay, enough of the craziness. Putting her on ignore.

U go away? Lol u forgot ur friend to take with u.