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inchrist

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About inchrist

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  1. Looking for some opinions

    Must I send you a GPS location of where he is buried? The scriptures do not state where he is buried. But we can safely eliminate one location being heaven. Yea it states he did not die when God took him....it does not state God took him to heaven ANYWHERE in that verse. Normally when someone asks for actual evidence stating Enoch went to heaven...the normal reply would be to provide such evidence....YOU however have not. That's God's prorogation, must God tell you where Moses was buried as well? You obviously missed this bit Paul, emphasize his point, again: "And THESE ALL, having obtained a good report through faith, RECEIVED NOT THE PROMISE" (verse 39). That includes Enoch. Enoch did NOT, has not, received the promise of eternal life. Why? Heb. 11:40: God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect What on earth does this have to do with the subject matter? I'm amazed people pushing a Catholic doctrine....I wonder why that is?
  2. Looking for some opinions

    NIV is a terrible rendering of that verse. This bit "this life, so that he did not " is not found anywhere in the original text. No where does it state in NT Greek that Enoch was taken from this life. Enoch was certainly taken so not to see death. However that could mean anything. Was he taken out of a hostile situation that was life threatening? Paul, emphasize his point, again: "And THESE ALL, having obtained a good report through faith, RECEIVED NOT THE PROMISE" (verse 39). That includes Enoch. Enoch did NOT, has not, received the promise of eternal life. Why? Heb. 11:40: God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect All those heroes and heroines of faith - including Enoch should not come to PERFECTION before we join them
  3. Looking for some opinions

    All it states is Enoch was taken; it does not state to heaven. The assumption must be proven the direction was heaven. Please provide the facts. I would very much like to see you harmonize the records of Enoch listed as those who died in faith. As well as Christ direct witness that no man has ascended to heaven….. I’m very keen to see this…... If you walked into a crime scene and saw the victims blood splashed all over the wall, the blood does cry out to you. As it bears the testimony of the crime. This is just simple straight forward logic. Further if God didn’t want us focused on the testimonial of the blood; then God could easily have referred directly to Abels immortal soul crying out from the netherworld but God didn’t did he? Then Abraham gave up the ghost, and died in a good old age, an old man, and full of years; and was gathered to his people. Were Abrahams ancestors such righteous people that they went to paradise when they died? Because we find in Joshua 24:2 that his ancestors were idolators So Abraham would have to be in hell now and not paradise to be "gathered" to his people Psalms 86:13 This verse doesn’t inform us about what really happens to the soul at death, or if anything happens to him or her. Just states from the depth of the grave…..how do you infer immortal souls from this? Is this verse written from the netherworld? If so I better tear this out of the Bible….As I will not take part in any form of necromancy. Welcome to the 7 bowls 10 The fifth angel poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast, and its kingdom was plunged into darkness. People gnawed their tongues in agony 11 and cursed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, but they refused to repent of what they had done. Their smoke ascended for ever and ever, doesn’t state their torment was for ever and ever. Since when do evil doers have the gift of immortality? This gift is reserved only for the righteous. Well at least you're disproving one of the “proof positive texts” for immortal soul. It’s a start; albeit your interpretation is still faulty. But nonetheless; that is a different subject. But enough to agree then that the transfiguration was not the immortal souls of Moses and Elijah. This has already been dealt with refuted with Daniels scripture. No; 18For Christ also suffered for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body, but made alive in the spirit, 19in which He also went and preached to the spirits inprison 20who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah, while the ark was being built. In the ark a few people, only eight souls, were saved through water Greek grammar dictates the "he" must revert back to it’s closest identifier the spirit, in which He also went and preached to the spirits inprison It is the Holy Spirit that went to go preach. The closest identifier. Now, notice in verse 20, the words “when” - when God waited patiently in the days of Noah.” This tells you the preaching was done in the days of Noah to those who were disobedient..... What did He say then? Because you’re going to go by the assumption of the translator of the comma right?
  4. Looking for some opinions

    And how did He speak? Moses looked free to me at Christ's transfiguration then? Further by implication that the body returns to dust; the Spirit returns to God....no holding period for body or Spirit "No man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man" Can you please explain how Elijah from heaven wrote a letter to a king? Please find me scripture actually stating Enoch went to heaven Im still waiting for scripture two or three witnesses that hades is called paradise Please notice the Richman; it states the following In Hades he lifted up his eyes In otherwords; in the grave he opened his eyes, and then saw Lazarus. What happens at the resurrection? You open your eyes in the grave. See Daniel speaks of the resurrection of the just, and of the unjust: "And many of them that sleep.... (their eyes are closed while sleeping) .... in the dust of the earth (their graves; buried "hades" ), shall awake ( lift up their eyes ) some to everlasting life (Lazarus) and some to shame and everlasting contempt (Richman) (Daniel 12:2). You know the doctrine called replacement theology? You see immortal souls doctrine is no different; it seeks to replace the Resurrection doctrine For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: by which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; which sometime were disobedient, when once the long-suffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls, were saved by water.” I Peter 3:18-20. Want to try that again?
  5. Looking for some opinions

    Hardly irrelevant when we're relying on a translator who made the assumption of where the comma goes. Hence you end up with two options. Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise. Or Verily I say unto thee today, shalt thou be with me in paradise. The meaning of the text changes complexity. This is hardly tangible evidence for immortal soul. What is irrelevant however; is bring up Joyce Meyer. Impossible since scripture makes it clear the Spirit returns to God by two witness. Eccl. 12:7: Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. And Job34 :14 If he set his heart upon man, if he gather unto himself his spirit and his breath; all flesh shall perish together, and man shall turn again unto dust The Bible teaches this spirit and breath , is given for awhile to man, God calls his own, and depriving man of it, God calls gathering it to himself By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; What purpose would Christ have going to hell to preach to damned souls under divine judgment? Their prohibition had passed, no gospel message can save them. The preaching that was given to them was through Noah, who, by the power of the Holy Spirit, delivered to them the message of warning. The preaching of Noah, was the preaching of Christ. As for Prison allow scripture to interpret scripture Isa. 61:1: The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me; because the Lord hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he bath sent me to bind up the broken-hearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound. Their days were limited to a hundred and twenty years; and their only way of escape from impending destruction was through the preaching of Noah. Gen. 6:3. That is the prohibition. The grave is never called paradise.
  6. Looking for some opinions

    It is true that I don't accept that but rather Christ is the image of the Father. However I can still argue the position from a trinity perspective and call it the mystery of the trinity; that God is omnipotent to have a member of the trinity silenced; unconscious; "sleep" and brought back to consciousness. The very definition of omnipotence does not exclude such power nor limited beyond such power. So yes it fits very much with scripture of ALmightyness Revelation 1:8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”
  7. Looking for some opinions

    Christ was quickened by the Spirit and between his death and quickening no action is affirmed of him. None. Since the will is directly from the father. There is no evidence you can bring forth showing Christ in "paradise", just a mere assumption. Further you still need to deal with the fact of the Greek text not using commas in the famous line of Luke 23:43 And nothing in the records given shows that man has an immortal soul when they die. We are made in the image of God but we carry none of his attributes; why single immortality and not the rest of God's attributes like omnipresent or omnipotent? For me it's about tangibility. There hasn't been a single verse brought forth that has shown tangible evidence of immortal souls. Either the words like "bring" have been added in; the issues of a comma which the Greek text never uses. Replacing resurrection with immortal soul doctrine with Paul teachings. I appreciate the conversation and the manner in which youve done it.....but there is no tangibility and that is frustration.
  8. Looking for some opinions

    Christ does the will of the father John 6:38King James Version (KJV) 38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. The fathers will was for Christ to die; to be silenced; unconscious, "sleep" 1 Peter 3:18New International Version (NIV) 18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. The Greek word is zoopoieo, to impart life to make alive. He was put to death in the flesh, but made alive by the Spirit. The text clearly states giving life, NOT continuing alive. The verb is a regular, active verb, in the passive voice; which means an action received. Christ received life from God; Christ did not continue alive, but was made alive by the Spirit. Rev. 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead. To state Christ was immortal and continued living after death between his crucifixion and resurrected is a complete rejection of the whole plan of salvation, by declaring that Christ never was dead and never received the Spirit by which to bring Christ back to life; denying the will of the Father.
  9. Looking for some opinions

    No Christ went to the grave dead "he, foreseeing this, spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that His soul was not left in Hades, nor did His flesh see corruption." (Acts 2:31, NKJV) God the father alone has immortal. If we choose to believe Christ never truly died.....then we truly have no hope. Is God not omnipotent? Can Christ not truly be dead/ unconscious, "soul sleep" for God to raise him up? Return to the theif And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into Thy kingdom Christ only comes into Thy KingDom when He comes in the second advent; to claim his kingdom
  10. Looking for some opinions

    But you should be aware Christ never went to "paradise" that day. Also the original Greek has no punctuation. Again I could just as easily remove the comma and place it here at the following. Luke 23:43 And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you today(,) you will be with me in paradise.
  11. Looking for some opinions

    No God sent a vision to Jesus and the disciples.....God is not going to violate His own law to summon the dead. You're contradicting the nature of God.
  12. Looking for some opinions

    That is half a picture; the following texts reveal that eternal life is something to be obtained in the future TITUS 1:2 a faith and knowledge resting on the hope of eternal life, which God, who does not lie, promised before the beginning of time, TITUS 3:7 so that, having been justified by His grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life. These verses adequately explain that Christians have eternal life however it is in the sense that we have the hope of eternal life. And that realisation is only given at the resurrection Romans 2:6-7 who "will render to each one according to his deeds": eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality Rewards; immortality is part of that rewards; which Christ comes with. JUDE 21 Keep yourselves in God’s love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life
  13. Looking for some opinions

    Circumcision of our private parts was never a requirement of faith in the Old and New Testament. However you misunderstand Christ....he was the Law made flesh. I don't know how anyone can accept Christ practised necromancy. The summon of the dead is forbidden. Christ can not violate any of the laws. That is a biblical fact.
  14. Looking for some opinions

    Immortality is something to be obtained, not something inherent upon death. Rewards are only given when Christ comes again. who "will render to each one according to his deeds": eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality (Romans 2:6-7). This is why the book of life comes into play. If you are saved; your name is inscribed in the book of life. So God remembers you in thought , but you are certainly not alive in the hereafter. You don't receive eternal life upon death. Romans 2:6-7 makes it clear eternal life is only received at Christ second coming. Because that is biblical faith. 16 For if the dead do not rise, then Christ is not risen. 17 And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins! 18 Then also those who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. (1 Corinthians 15:16-18 How can something perish if it has eternal life upon death? Our faith calls for the sole belief in the resurrection to receive immortality not the other way round. Only in thought or in writing. The book of life and then resurrected into existence new 1 Timothy 6:15-16. He who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings and Lord of lords, who alone has immortality
  15. Looking for some opinions

    Wingnut; off topic comment - but i want to thank you for the manner in your conversation. On topic comment We need to look at the entire teaching of Paul 2 Corinthians 4:11-18 2 Corinthians 5:2–4 And then refer to 1 Corinthians 15 We actually see Paul speaks about the resurrection and not an immortal soul. This conclusion is based on context and cross reference. When we start with 2 Corinthians 4:11 - 18 Paul makes a statement on two notes 1) We look beyond to things we know will be, that which is eternal 2) That we, like Christ will be resurrected, crossed referenced with 1 Thessalonians 4:14 Then Paul carries this thought over to 2 Corinthians 5:2–4 1) Paul desires to put on this 'house' to be clothed with this immortality; this is crossed referenced with 1 Corinthians 15:51 in line with 1 Thessalonians 4:14 Notice in 1 Cor 5:4 so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. Now notice 1 Cor 15;54 So when this mortal puts on immortality and this corruption puts on inocorruption, then shall be brought to pass the saying, 'death is swallowed up in victory! It's all the same teaching, and the teaching is resurrection. This I found interesting; if we examine the scripture 1 Thessalonians 4:14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. The word bring isn't even in the original NT Greek text. It was added in. I can just as well add the word raise . Which is far more fitting and inline with Paul's teachings For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will raise with Jesus (secomd coming)those who have fallen asleep in him. Further complications with your interpretation John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. Christ gives the damning evidence of any idea of immortal soul. Christ will only receive you at the resurrection Christ wouldn't need to receive you unto himself when you are already received with immortal souls, you would be with him already. The resurrection thus becomes simply an after thought.
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