Concretecamper Posted September 29, 2018 Group: Catholic Followers: 2 Topic Count: 94 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 827 Content Per Day: 0.41 Reputation: 67 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/26/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted September 29, 2018 11 hours ago, Cobalt1959 said: Of course. One of the most often mis-used scriptural proof-texts that the Catholic church has tried to use for centuries to legitimize the office of Pope is Matthew 16:18, like none of the verses above or below it mean anything. Exegesis so poor anyone repeating it should be overcome by embarrassment. This section of scripture always points to Jesus, and no one else. Peter did not found the Church, Jesus did. Peter is not the rock the Church is built upon, Jesus is. The Gospel is always centered around Jesus. Not Mary. Not Peter. Not the Pope. Jesus is the only one who can save anyone. Jesus is saying here that Peter's inspired declaration that he, Jesus is the Christ and that is the bedrock that the Church will be established on. Not Peter. Show me Papal succession laid out in the Bible. First, we acknowledging that the Davidic Kingdom in the OT is a prototype of His Kingdom which is to be set up in the NT In the OT (Old Covenant) we see that in the Davidic Kingdom there was a Chief Steward. This office carried with it authority over the people of the Kingdom. This office also exhibited succession. Keys were the symbol of this authority. Likewise, in the New Covenant we see this with Peter. Read Isaiah Chapter 22 to get a flavor of what I am talking about. In addition, in Acts we see that the Apostles replaced Judas. No where in the bible are instructions that the apostles do this. However, the immediately replace Judas.....which is succession. What makes you think that there would not be succession for the Bishop of Rome? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Concretecamper Posted September 29, 2018 Group: Catholic Followers: 2 Topic Count: 94 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 827 Content Per Day: 0.41 Reputation: 67 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/26/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted September 29, 2018 4 minutes ago, Cobalt1959 said: If Peter were the first Pope, then surely he would have both told the Church that and laid out the rules for succession I would say this instruction was from Christ 4 minutes ago, Cobalt1959 said: The office of Pope is an office that the Catholic church invented The office was not invented by the Church. Scripture supports an office of authority while the Master is away. 6 minutes ago, Cobalt1959 said: After Matthias was chosen to replace Judas, we have no other Apostles being replaced You mean there is nothing recorded in Scripture. Look to other historical sources and test your claim 9 minutes ago, Cobalt1959 said: so there is no precedent in the NT for the office of Pope. There is precedent in the OT. And Peter was given the keys. Read the OT to see what the keys signify. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted September 29, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,192 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,469 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted September 29, 2018 1 hour ago, Concretecamper said: You mean there is nothing recorded in Scripture. Look to other historical sources and test your claim That's the problem in a nutshell with Catholicism... it trust sources outside of God's Word and the foundation then becomes of sand … the rain will come! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Concretecamper Posted September 29, 2018 Group: Catholic Followers: 2 Topic Count: 94 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 827 Content Per Day: 0.41 Reputation: 67 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/26/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted September 29, 2018 (edited) If you can point to any bible passage that tells us to trust only the bible, you may have a point. Dont bother looking becasue I know no such passage exits. Only the most radical protestants discount history and the Early Church Fathers. Edited September 29, 2018 by Concretecamper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAZARD Posted September 29, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 320 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 6,830 Content Per Day: 0.84 Reputation: 3,570 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/16/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted September 29, 2018 47 minutes ago, Concretecamper said: If you can point to any bible passage that tells us to trust only the bible, you may have a point. Dont bother looking becasue I know no such passage exits. Only the most radical protestants discount history and the Early Church Fathers. The Bible has absolutely nothing what so ever to with the catholic church or its Popes. The Bible is the Holy Word of God, no doubt about it. Anyone who can read and understand plain english, can read and understand the Bible. It was written to understood by babes. A God who wrote a book on how men should live, and wrote it in such a way that it would be impossible to understand and needed interperetation, and then judge men by it, would be no God at all. Its a huge volume, and you wont be able to consume it overnight. For starters. The Bible is God's inspired revelation of the origin and destiny of all things. It is the power of God unto eternal salvation and it is the source of present help for the body, soul, and spirit (Rom. 1:16; John 15:7). It is God's will and testament to men in all ages, revealing the plan of God for man here and now and in the next life. It is the record of God's dealings with man; past, present, and future. It contains God's message of eternal salvation to all people who believe in Christ and of eternal damnation to those who knowingly and willingly rebell against the gospel. The Bible is a literary composition, and the Bible is the most remarkable book ever written. It is a divine library of sixty-six books, some of considerable size, and others no larger than a tract. All these books include various forms of litrature, history, biography, poetry, proverbial sayings, hymns, letters, directions for elabourate ritualistic worship, laws, parables, riddles, allegories, prophecy, drama, and all other forms of human expression. The Bible never has been excelled from any standpoint. This book contains the mind of God, the state of man, the way of salvation, the doom of sinners, and the reward and happiness of believers. Its doctrins are holy, its precepts are binding, its histories true, and its decisions immutable. The Bible is a mirror to reflect (James 1:23); a hammer to convict (Jer. 23:29); a fire to refine (Jer. 23:29); seed to multiply (1 Pet. 1:23); lwater to cleanse (Eph. 5:26; John 15:3); a lamp to guide (Ps. 119:105); and food to nourish, including milk for babes (1 Pet. 2:2), it is bread for the hungry (Matt. 4:4), meat for men (Heb. 5:11-14), and it is honey for dessert (Ps. 19:10). It is rain and snow to refresh (Isa. 55:10); a sword to cut (Heb. 4:12; a bow to revenge (Heb. 3:9); it is gold to enrich (Ps. 19:7-10); and it reveals the power who creats life through faith (1 Pet. 1:23; Rom. 10:17). The Bible is not an amulet, a charm, a fetish,or a thing that will work wonders by its very presence without any volintary agency. The Bible does not claim to be any such thing. What the Bible does claim is that if one will study and practice it that it will work wonders in the life now and hereafter. The Bible does not benifit men by its presence, such as in hotel rooms, by a bedside, in a home, or a factory, any more than a spring of cool water benefits a thirsty man who refuses to drink. The Bible is not a book of chronological events or one unbroken series of divine utterances. The Bible was given piecemeal, here a little and there a little, to many men through eighteen centuries or more (Isa. 28:9-11). And in spite of this it forms a perfect unity. The Bible is not a book of mysteries, of supernatural languages, of heavenly utterances. It is God's Revelation in the most simple human language possible. It explains the so-called mysteries and it is self-interpreting, so that no mystery remains in it. It does not say one thing and mean another. It has generally only one simple meaning. If a few passages have a double meaning, that is quite clear from the passage itself or from parallel passages. One cannot, as is commonly believed, get a thousand different meanings, from any one passage. The Bible is not an example of God's skill as a writer or logician. It is a book written by men whom God used to record His revelation. God used the men by giving them freedom of expression to use their own language and ways of expressing truth. The writers were God's penmen, and not God's pens. All that inspiration guarantees is unity of thought, not the sameness of words and expressions. The Bible is not a book of systematic discourse on any one subject, but it does give divine information on practically every subject. One must collect together here and there all God's information through the various writers in order to get the whole truth. When this is done, there is perfect harmony, and everything agout the whole subject that man really needs to know is clear. The Bible is not a book that conforms to tasts, customs, or habits of any one nation or people, or for any one age or period of time. It is a book to which all people in all ages can conform, and yet retain their own peculiar customs and habits that are not sinful and contrary to the will of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frienduff thaylorde Posted September 29, 2018 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 17 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 13,256 Content Per Day: 5.33 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 62 Joined: 07/07/2017 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/25/1972 Share Posted September 29, 2018 2 hours ago, Cobalt1959 said: If Peter were the first Pope, then surely he would have both told the Church that and laid out the rules for succession. The office of Pope is an office that the Catholic church invented. After Matthias was chosen to replace Judas, we have no other Apostles being replaced, so there is no precedent in the NT for the office of Pope. You and I both know Peter would have rebuked that church the moment it was formed . The reason they aint got no list of popes in concrete before ROME stood up IS because their was none . I read about every vicar , briefly in a book wrote by a catholic who supports that system . AND everyone of them failed to live as the plain church should. AND if leaders do that , then look out flocks who sit under them , it will only get worse and worse . and they did too . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frienduff thaylorde Posted September 29, 2018 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 17 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 13,256 Content Per Day: 5.33 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 62 Joined: 07/07/2017 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/25/1972 Share Posted September 29, 2018 Now , to anwer the question . mary is not an intercessor . BUT SHE IS BLESSED and all generations can say so . But we don't pray to her or saints . JESUS IS the ONLY INTERCESSOR IN HEAVEN . PEROID . now how bout we all PRAISE THE LORD . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted September 30, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,192 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,469 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted September 30, 2018 (edited) 6 hours ago, Concretecamper said: If you can point to any bible passage that tells us to trust only the bible, you may have a point. Dont bother looking becasue I know no such passage exits. Only the most radical protestants discount history and the Early Church Fathers. God holds all that witness this creation accountable to know that He 'IS'... but His Word He place above all else Matt 5:19 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. KJV 2 Tim 3:15-17 15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. KJV John 17:16-19 16 They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. 17 Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth. 18 As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. 19 And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth. NKJV James 1:18 18 Of His own will He brought us forth by the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of His creatures. NKJV 2 Peter 1:19-21 19 And so we have the prophetic word confirmed, which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts; 20 knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, 21 for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit. NKJV God simply has spoken of no other source such as He has to His Word... you would do well to acknowledge this! Edited September 30, 2018 by enoob57 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Concretecamper Posted September 30, 2018 Group: Catholic Followers: 2 Topic Count: 94 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 827 Content Per Day: 0.41 Reputation: 67 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/26/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted September 30, 2018 (edited) 11 hours ago, enoob57 said: 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. KJV 2 Tim 3:15-17 15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. KJV Since this scripture has been used more than once in response to my question, I will address this passage. At the time this was written, the only writings that were considered scripture were the books of the Tanakh. The bible wasn't in existence yet so Paul was not referring to what we call the Bible. Furthermore, this passage does not say ONLY scripture is profitable. So to my new freinds. Sacred Scripture is certainly the inspired Word of God. All the BS you've posted that say Catholics believe otherwise is laughable. But I do have a question. Please dont copy and paste from got questions or any other website. I would like a sincere answer with your own words. There has been many scripture quoted from the Gospels and the epistles. For example, 1Peter was quoted from. How do you know 1Peter is inspired writing? Who told you this? Was it your parents? Freind? Preacher? Edited September 30, 2018 by Concretecamper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted September 30, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,192 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,469 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted September 30, 2018 36 minutes ago, Concretecamper said: Since this scripture has been used more than once in response to my question, I will address this passage. At the time this was written, the only writings that were considered scripture were the books of the Tanakh. The bible wasn't in existence yet so Paul was not referring to what we call the Bible. Furthermore, this passage does not say ONLY scripture is profitable. So to my new freinds. Sacred Scripture is certainly the inspired Word of God. All the BS you've posted that say Catholics believe otherwise is laughable. But I do have a question. Please dont copy and paste from got questions or any other website. I would like a sincere answer with your own words. There has been many scripture quoted from the Gospels and the epistles. For example, 1Peter was quoted from. How do you know 1Peter is inspired writing? Who told you this? Was it your parents? Freind? Preacher? I think you should move your camper to dirt ->"All the BS you've posted " this is considered course speaking! The Word of God instructs His children not to do it! catholics= Scripture+uninspired writings+oral tradition.... we know the error and apostacy of the rcc! I know the canon of Scripture by Holy Spirit and study... of which I would say manuscript evidence is a big one...Peter was inspired because the Holy Spirit so instructed Peter of Paul's writings 2Pet 3:15-16 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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