Overwhelming evidence of life on earth before Adam

[enoob57]

2 hours ago, Still Alive said:

Yes, but now we see as through a glass darkly, but then face to face. 

It gives us everything God is willing to share, and that is sufficient. But it is silent on so many things, like nuclear power, how the sun works, where all those ancient bones come from, etc. We are free to speculate on potential answers as long as they don't violate scripture. But even then, often times what happens is that one person judges another person's opinion because they believe it violates scripture when, in fact, it only violates their interpretation of scripture. 

That's why, where I live in the bible belt, there are approximately 4.543 million different Baptist churches. Maybe a bit less.

 

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Yes, but now we see as through a glass darkly, but then face to face.

Paul is speaking of the creation itself because it has been given over to the prince of the power of the air satan... he traverses over all this place like a lion for prey. It is the system he has structured that makes this a glass darkly and the comparative is then face to face which is out of this place standing before Jesus. The written Word of God 'IS' light here in this system and combined with the tutelage of The Holy Spirit it becomes more to us than the ground that was created by it in the beginning... for God's Word delivers reality and substance not of this world that passes not away and reliance become totally upon God Who has spoken it...
 

Quote

But it is silent on so many things, like nuclear power, how the sun works, where all those ancient bones come from, etc. We are free to speculate on potential answers as long as they don't violate scripture

The Bible does speak to these things but with sort of a not really important address... we are eternal children to be filled with eternal things!

Dan 12:4
4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.
KJV
I want to show you how to reason with God in His Word: We understand the infinite nature of Our Father and how The Son said nothing is impossible for Him! Thus we know in creation the things that God has made are of one example of an infinite reality of possible ways... the one way He did of which pleased God to do thus... We also know by His Holiness His plans are for a totally new heaven and new earth upon which we can place no comparative to what we have began in because of this verse

1 Cor 2:9

9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
KJV
the expected literal fulfillment of this verse makes the depth of 'all things new' a reality that can only be known when there and not here and now...
Since all these things are thus as Peter mentions

2 Peter 3:10-13

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
KJV
We should glean if efficient students of His Word this- what I am about to say:
The spirit that causes us to search in the created elements for verification of Scripture should be tested thoroughly by the value placed upon either the created or The Creator... put simply if this world is destined for cessation of existence and His Word is to remain eternally shouldn't we see that weight of reliance for an eternal Holy Spirit upon the Word and not upon the first heaven and first earth that passes away?

Let me put all this together thus far so it doesn't seem like a ramble: 

Because we were born in sin in a place designed to promote that sin we should wake up to the fact that the prejudice exceeds even what we realize within self... and to be born out of it is in fact as God says it is

Matt 7:14-17

14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
KJV

 I know the dimensions of this gate it is the thickness of book -Genesis thru Revelation ....

Quote

But even then, often times what happens is that one person judges another person's opinion because they believe it violates scripture when, in fact, it only violates their interpretation of scripture.

 

We try to walk abreast of one another in the way but the rampant sin within flesh and the world is formidable for keeping confusion present... but God make us, each individual, a promise
first with warning of methods or source used

Through the created element:
Eccl 1:13-15

13 And I gave my heart to seek and search out by wisdom concerning all things that are done under heaven: this sore travail hath God given to the sons of man to be exercised therewith.

14 I have seen all the works that are done under the sun; and, behold, all is vanity and vexation of spirit.

15 That which is crooked cannot be made straight: and that which is wanting cannot be numbered.
KJV

Through the written element:
with God's Word as 1st and last to all value and priority we have promise to be in the light as He is in the light

1 John 1:7

7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
KJV

 John 1:1-4

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
KJV

Isa 8:20

20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
KJV

John 1:15

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
KJV

John 8:12

12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.
KJV
 

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That's why, where I live in the bible belt, there are approximately 4.543 million different Baptist churches. Maybe a bit less.

You again are looking to the created element and not The Word... I don't care what you call yourself if you speak and write as God's Word speaks and writes then in that is the priority of Scripture!

 

[Still Alive]

Just now, enoob57 said:

 

 

Paul is speaking of the creation itself because it has been given over to the prince of the power of the air satan... he traverses over all this place like a lion for prey. It is the system he has structured that makes this a glass darkly and the comparative is then face to face which is out of this place standing before Jesus. The written Word of God 'IS' light here in this system and combined with the tutelage of The Holy Spirit it becomes more to us than the ground that was created by it in the beginning... for God's Word delivers reality and substance not of this world that passes away and reliance become totally upon God Who has spoken it...


Dan 12:4
4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.
KJV
I want to show you how to reason with God in His Word: We understand the infinite nature of Our Father and how The Son said nothing is impossible for Him! Thus we know in creation the things that God has made are of one example of an infinite reality of possible ways... the one way He did of which pleased God to do thus... We also know by His Holiness His plans are for a totally new heaven and new earth upon which we can place no comparative to what we have began in because of this verse

1 Cor 2:9

9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
KJV
the expected literal fulfillment of this verse makes the depth of 'all things new' a reality that can only be known when there and not here and now...
Since all these things are thus as Peter mentions

2 Peter 3:10-13

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
KJV
We should glean if efficient students of His Word this- what I am about to say:
The spirit that causes us to search in the created elements for verification of Scripture should be tested thoroughly by the value placed upon either the created or The Creator... put simply if this world is destined for cessation of existence and His Word is to remain eternally shouldn't we see that weight of reliance for an eternal Holy Spirit upon the Word and not upon the first heaven and first earth that passes away?

Let me put all this together thus far so it doesn't seem like a ramble: 

Because we were born in sin in a place designed to promote that sin we should wake up to the fact that the prejudice exceeds even what we realize within self... and to be born out of it is in fact as God says it is

Matt 7:14-17

14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
KJV

 I know the dimensions of this gate it is the thickness of book -Genesis thru Revelation ....

 

We try to walk abreast of one another in the way but the rampant sin within flesh and the world is formidable for keeping confusion present... but God make us, each individual, a promise
first with warning of methods or source used

Through the created element:
Eccl 1:13-15

13 And I gave my heart to seek and search out by wisdom concerning all things that are done under heaven: this sore travail hath God given to the sons of man to be exercised therewith.

14 I have seen all the works that are done under the sun; and, behold, all is vanity and vexation of spirit.

15 That which is crooked cannot be made straight: and that which is wanting cannot be numbered.
KJV

Through the written element:
with God's Word as 1st and last to all value and priority we have promise to be in the light as He is in the light

1 John 1:7

7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
KJV

 John 1:1-4

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
KJV

Isa 8:20

20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
KJV

John 1:15

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
KJV

John 8:12

12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.
KJV
 

You again are looking to the created element and not The Word... I don't care what you call yourself if you speak and write as God's Word speaks and writes then in that is the priority of Scripture!

 

"Scripture" simply means something in writing. Everything you read on the internet is "scripture". 

 

The new testament is a collection of:

Four biographies of Christ. (the Gospels)

One book of the history of the early church. (Acts)

Several letters to individuals and churches. 

An accounting of a vision. (Revelation)

I believe they contain the word of God. Absolutely I do. But I do not hang on every word in any English version. They are all, by definition, interpretations - not just translations. If an interpretation confuses me, I go to the original language and context.

And, most importantly, prayer.

[MorningGlory]

1 hour ago, enoob57 said:

What I know is the written hermeneutic of God's Word does not allow for prior existence of anything 'in the beginning addresses all that has began-> for God makes it so by placing with it Himself:

Gen 1:1

1 In the beginning God created the Heaven and the earth.
KJV
By God placing Himself in this format He has place Uncreated with created you have only one or other... by saying there is other is outside of the written format which is what exactly?
God has warned us about this sort of thing in this passage below -that which is coming against those who hold not to His Word

2 Thess 2:9-14

9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
KJV
So much these days is persuasion to place weight of being upon other than a strict interpretation of God's Own Possession His Word ... it is the only foundation for which truth can be ascertained... As those who let this reality slip so also the truth... and we have read what God is going to do to those who do this...

I understand what you['re saying, Steven.  In the beginning means in the beginning.  My point is that this may mean the beginning of us and the world we live in today.  We know there were hominids that no longer exist and that MAY be because they preexisted us but were NOT  us.  The Bible only tells us of OUR beginning.

[Still Alive]

16 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

Yes it is critical.  It contradicts what the Bible teaches about the origin of sin.

 

?

[enoob57]

1 hour ago, Still Alive said:

Yes, and that is before day 1.

So, how long ago did that happen? And, the beginning of "what"? The heaven and the earth? The first of many ages chronicled in His word?

 And by "earth", does it mean the planet itself, or does it mean prepared the clean slate surface of the planet on which to place the upcoming ages?

There is so little information here and in the following verses that it is ripe for speculation and inference. My take is that we don't know. We only know what He told us, which is very little. I figure that though I see as through a glass darkly now, I will see as face to face in eternity.

If you stay with scripture as written it is day 1 as it is written...

1 hour ago, Still Alive said:

The problem is that again, we are stuck with interpretation. Otherwise you have to say that the bible clearly contradicts itself when one gospel says the rooster crows twice and the others say once. My take is that I don't interpret strictly. I see Christianity as a spirit of the law, rather than letter of the law faith. I see the first covenant and Islam as letter of the law.

The problem lies within the point of communicated reference ...  not a problem in writing but point of reference to specific mentioned event

33 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

Genesis 1:1 is simply a synopsis of what is revealed in the verses to follow and chapters 1 and 2.    It doesn't mean that God created an earth before Genesis 1:2.   The Hebrew grammar does not allow for anything like what Quasar is claiming.   

We differ here a little bit... chapter 2  I believe is reiteration with the now presence of satans fall or how else could you have knowledge of evil if evil had not been born out of satan yet?

[enoob57]

20 minutes ago, Still Alive said:

"Scripture" simply means something in writing. Everything you read on the internet is "scripture". 

 

The new testament is a collection of:

Four biographies of Christ. (the Gospels)

One book of the history of the early church. (Acts)

Several letters to individuals and churches. 

An accounting of a vision. (Revelation)

I believe they contain the word of God. Absolutely I do. But I do not hang on every word in any English version. They are all, by definition, interpretations - not just translations. If an interpretation confuses me, I go to the original language and context.

And, most importantly, prayer.

I do not believe your definition of Scripture... here's God definition

2 Peter 1:21

21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
KJV

The fact then is you have absolutely nothing you can place your faith entirely in... a little here a little there all determined by 'YOU'?

[enoob57]

2 hours ago, MorningGlory said:

I understand what you['re saying, Steven.  In the beginning means in the beginning.  My point is that this may mean the beginning of us and the world we live in today.  We know there were hominids that no longer exist and that MAY be because they preexisted us but were NOT  us.  The Bible only tells us of OUR beginning.

No that's not how it is written ... it's coverage is in all God has created right?

Gen 2:2

2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
KJV
Really loved one the burden lies upon the claim there is other.... not spoken of here and that is not within Scripture!

[Guest shiloh357]

31 minutes ago, Still Alive said:

?

The pre-adamite earth view (Gap Theory) posits that God had to judge the pre-adamite earth due to their sin and rebellion.  The Bible states that sin and death began with fall of Adam in the Garden in Genesis 3.

Furthermore, the notion that God judged an entire an entire race of humanity to extinction doesn't agree with the redemptive nature of God revealed in Scripture.

[Still Alive]

35 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

That is the completely wrong approach.  And we are not "stuck" with interpretation.   We are stuck with those who want the Bible to be molded around their beliefs instead of letting the Bible be the mold for what they believe.

The whole  pre-adamite earth stuff is really based on sloppy theology and even an even sloppier approach to hermeneutics.

The problem with that description, regarding me, at least, is that I became a Christian back in 1980 and was taught what to believe. Then, as I progressed I studied the bible and started focusing on context, new testament quotes from the old testament, etc. I also started reading some books from bible scholars outside the confines of my own particular church. It caused me to change my viewpoints in some ways. First big one was that I went from pre-tribulationist to mid-tribulationist (aka post trib, pre wrath). 

Then the internet and search engines opened me up to a whole new world of study with the bible in various versions at my fingertips. Then I discovered online lexicons. With each phase I as able to drill into topics that had previously confused me. Another thing that really helps is that I have the entire bible in audio form on a thumb drive that I plug into the dash on my car. I have a three hour daily commute and for the last three years have spent about half my commute time listening to the bible. 

Listening, rather than reading, gives a completely different perspective. I can listen to Ecclesiastes three times on my morning commute. Immersion is awesome. 

This is a journey that takes a lifetime.

[Still Alive]

5 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

The pre-adamite earth view (Gap Theory) posits that God had to judge the pre-adamite earth due to their sin and rebellion.  The Bible states that sin and death began with fall of Adam in the Garden in Genesis 3.

Furthermore, the notion that God judged an entire an entire race of humanity to extinction doesn't agree with the redemptive nature of God revealed in Scripture.

Yeah. I'm not into all that baggage...yet. I just understand that a lot of what people (including me) believe about Genesis is what we think it says, rather than what it says. We tend to fill in the blanks.

There is an attorney on the internet that illustrates this beautifully. He tells a brief story to the audience and then asks simple questions. An example.

The story (about one minute long) goes that two people were killed in a robbery attempt that resulted in blah, blah, blah...

When he completes the story, his first question is an easy one: He asks how many people were shot. A bunch of people say three, and a bunch of people say two. He then says "you're all wrong". Nobody was shot. I said two people were KILLED. He didn't say anything about people being shot. And in this case the weapon was a baseball bat.

It is important to see what is actually said in the bible, apply context, and work hard (and it takes hard work) to not add information that is not there. This is why so many of my points here revolve around what could have been, or might have been, while not adding nor subtracting from what was said.