Wayne222 Posted April 1, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 32 Topic Count: 478 Topics Per Day: 0.17 Content Count: 6,565 Content Per Day: 2.27 Reputation: 7,643 Days Won: 9 Joined: 06/12/2016 Status: Offline Author Share Posted April 1, 2018 1 minute ago, Butero said: All I posted was James 2:20-22 with no editorial comments. I did that on purpose to show the heart of those who are in opposition to scripture, not men. Of course I could have given opinions to go with it, and almost did, but then I thought, I will just answer the question with scripture alone to see the reaction. Would anyone choose to oppose James, and look what happened, they did. Well thats good and all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Butero Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 3 minutes ago, Wayne222 said: Cannot you add your input. What if all of us just put down bible verses ? I welcome comments from those you know the word. I have seen a lot of people on your side that clearly don't have any understanding of the Word. They posted a lot of false doctrine about James. We do not simply do good works so the world will see our actions and recognize we are children of God. That is blatantly false, and there is nothing in scripture that backs that up. To make such a claim, and then come back with a comment that anyone that believes good works are necessary is false shows us nothing. It is personal opinion. It is just the way this person chooses to interpret James to defend their false OSAS doctrine, but they aren't showing any actual knowledge of the Bible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Butero Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 Since you want my view on what James is saying about works, he is teaching that good works will automatically follow a true Christian. No good works shows the person isn't really a true believer. Simple. The problem is that we have a lot of people who went to an altar at some time in their life and accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior who have had no change in behavior or live worse than most sinners. I know a man who is a former Pastor, who lived right for a very long time, and had good works, who backslid entirely on God, abandoned his family and ministry, and is living in sin. If OSAS is right, he is a Christian, and James makes no sense. On the other hand, if his lack of works show he was never really saved, there is no real security in your doctrine. That is the point I have been making. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne222 Posted April 1, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 32 Topic Count: 478 Topics Per Day: 0.17 Content Count: 6,565 Content Per Day: 2.27 Reputation: 7,643 Days Won: 9 Joined: 06/12/2016 Status: Offline Author Share Posted April 1, 2018 4 minutes ago, Butero said: I have seen a lot of people on your side that clearly don't have any understanding of the Word. They posted a lot of false doctrine about James. We do not simply do good works so the world will see our actions and recognize we are children of God. That is blatantly false, and there is nothing in scripture that backs that up. To make such a claim, and then come back with a comment that anyone that believes good works are necessary is false shows us nothing. It is personal opinion. It is just the way this person chooses to interpret James to defend their false OSAS doctrine, but they aren't showing any actual knowledge of the Bible. Whatever. I dont agree with you at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne222 Posted April 1, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 32 Topic Count: 478 Topics Per Day: 0.17 Content Count: 6,565 Content Per Day: 2.27 Reputation: 7,643 Days Won: 9 Joined: 06/12/2016 Status: Offline Author Share Posted April 1, 2018 2 minutes ago, Butero said: Since you want my view on what James is saying about works, he is teaching that good works will automatically follow a true Christian. No good works shows the person isn't really a true believer. Simple. The problem is that we have a lot of people who went to an altar at some time in their life and accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior who have had no change in behavior or live worse than most sinners. I know a man who is a former Pastor, who lived right for a very long time, and had good works, who backslid entirely on God, abandoned his family and ministry, and is living in sin. If OSAS is right, he is a Christian, and James makes no sense. On the other hand, if his lack of works show he was never really saved, there is no real security in your doctrine. That is the point I have been making. James did say faith without works is dead. Its only head knowledge. Trust is the kind of faith we are looking for. Do we trust God to do what he says he will do. He said he will justified those who believe in his son. If you hear the goodnews and trust God he forgives you and you are justified by the blood of jesus. Not of works least any man boast. Works come into play after you are forgiven. A born again person will live by Gods commandments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Butero Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 10 minutes ago, Wayne222 said: Whatever. I dont agree with you at all. And I don't care at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Butero Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 1 minute ago, Wayne222 said: James did say faith without works is dead. Its only head knowledge. Trust is the kind of faith we are looking for. Do we trust God to do what he says he will do. He said he will justified those who believe in his son. If you hear the goodnews and trust God he forgives you and you are justified by the blood of jesus. Not of works least any man boast. Works come into play after you are forgiven. A born again person will live by Gods commandments. What about those people who get saved and you either see no change in their lives, or they live right for a time and then completely backslide and live worse than most sinners till the day they die? If you say they aren't saved, you are basing that on their works, so there is no assurance of salvation. Anyone living right today could backslide tomorrow or down the road. If you say they are saved, it contradicts James. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne222 Posted April 1, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 32 Topic Count: 478 Topics Per Day: 0.17 Content Count: 6,565 Content Per Day: 2.27 Reputation: 7,643 Days Won: 9 Joined: 06/12/2016 Status: Offline Author Share Posted April 1, 2018 Just now, Butero said: And I don't care at all. I do care about you. Sorry you feel that way. God bless you. Maybe i was harsh. But debates bring out the worst in me. We can disagree and not feel bad i hope. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Butero Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 2 minutes ago, Wayne222 said: I do care about you. Sorry you feel that way. God bless you. Maybe i was harsh. But debates bring out the worst in me. We can disagree and not feel bad i hope. Yes we can. I am not really sure how far apart we are because it is hard at times to articulate exactly what we mean when we speak of works and their relationship to faith, but I can most certainly disagree with you and do so with no hard feelings. This whole issue has divided the church as long as I can remember. It is not something that is so obvious, everyone should be able to easily have it 100 percent worked out. If it was, there would be no divisions. We have scriptures that seem to support OSAS and others that seem to go against it. What most do is put all the emphasis on those that back up their view and then find creative ways to make the others out to mean something different from their obvious meaning. That is the point I have been making all along, and the dilemma I had when I took this matter to the Lord for answers. I understand that everyone won't agree with my conclusions, and that is fine, because I know full well why the divisions exist. It is not spelled out. God bless and have a good night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frienduff thaylorde Posted April 1, 2018 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 17 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 13,256 Content Per Day: 5.31 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 62 Joined: 07/07/2017 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/25/1972 Share Posted April 1, 2018 And onward by the grace of GOD those of His will walk . No man will sway them , no doctrines mixed will they feed from . Onward in the Lord and keep pumping biblilcal doctrine . Now praise the LORD its ressurection remembrance day fast approaching . Praise the Lord peoples and rejoice in the Lord . And BE YE HOLY for HE is HOLY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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