saved by grace through faith

[tsth]

You cannot have faith,

Without hearing God

[Imamom]

Saved by grace through faith / salvation with doing works, just seems to naturally go hand in hand to me. How can you be a Christian without works? Just can't picture it in my mind.

[Abigailwc]

Yes, we are not saved by works, we are saved by His Grace only. We did not choose Him, He chose us:

John 15:16

You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you.

Ephesians 1:4

just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,

2 Tim 2:13

But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth,

Regarding our faith, it is also Him who gave us faith:

Heb 12:2

looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Romans 12:3

For I say, through the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith.

Without God we can do nothing, we cannot save ourselves and we cannot have faith by our own strength. He saved us.

As to faith and works:

James 2:20

But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?

Indeed, if I have faith, I step in faith and perform works. If I do not have faith, I doubt and do not move, do not perform any work.

[Pilgrim7]

John 3:16,

I admire your zeal for the truths you shared with me and I appreciate your trying save my soul. But I agree with all that you quoted. But I also agree with the rest of Scripture, every word that God has revealed. I believe what Paul wrote to Timothy,

1TIM 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

3:14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;

3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures (the Old Testament were the only Scriptures in that day), which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

I believe what Peter wrote;

2PET 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

I believe what Jesus said;

MAT 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Read the parable of the sower. Many receive the word with joy, but only a few endure to the end.

So we cannot use Scripture to negate Scripture. If we don

Edited May 12, 2005 by Pilgrim7

[Imamom]

Yes, I agree Saved by Grace, I also agree with the scripture given before

James 2:20

But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?

It's both.

Edited May 12, 2005 by Imamom

[Pilgrim7]

John 3:16,

Please forgive the earlier post. I forgot to proof read.

There was this person Bob whose Grandfather sent him a letter. The letter said that if Bob would come to live with him, he would give him a car, a free gift. He would have to do nothing but come to live with him. Now when he arrived at his Grandfather

[Pilgrim7]

It is somewhat confusing to me how anyone can say that anyone has been saying that you are saved by works, because nobody has said that. In fact no one has said that we're saved by faith and works.

What has been said and backed up by Scripture is that saving faith always works. That it obeys the word of God. Those with saving faith know this. Now if saving faith always works the works of God, then it is the works that identify saving faith and dead faith. The faithful servant is the one who did his masters will. The unfaithful servant is the one who didn't do his masters will. This concept is abundantly clear in the Scriptures. Jesus says well done thy good and faithful servant, not because they didn't work, but because they did. God doesn't take away our free will, but allows us to choose day by day to do His will.

Saving faith and works are two sides of the same coin, they cannot be separated.

Where there is 'faith' and no works, there is presumption, hollow intellectual agreement, not the outworking of the indwelling Jesus.

Christ is all in all,

Dennis

[John3;16]

Pilgrim7

MAT 13:18 Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.

13:19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

13:20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;

13:21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

13:22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.

13:23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

the story of the sower and specifically those who receive the word but it does not take root indicates to me that they hear the word but they never follow through with confessing the Lord and truly believing in their hearts, notice they have no root within themselves, they have a stony heart, same with the one who receives it among thorns, the word never takes root, they hear and even understand but never make a decision to accept Christ.

Pilgrim7 I believe your story about Bob and his grandfather would be a better example of our walk in this world, we do suffer the consequences of our living a disobedient life and the Lord does chastise his children, but the true issue is: will good works cancel sin? The obvious answer is no, our fellowship is sometimes severed by our involvement in sin, but our relation as a son is never severed, I will also post a story that Jesus told, and it is a picture of the Father and a wayward son, this I hope will reveal the heart of God:

Luke|15:11 And he said, A certain man had two sons:

Luke|15:12 And the younger of them said to

[Pilgrim7]

John 3:16,

You persist in accusing us of teaching Salvation by works, which is a complete misunderstanding of what we have said and quoted from Scripture.

No unsaved person can be justified by works. The saved person is a new creation.

He is not in the flesh, but in the Spirit. There fore he does not work to earn salvation, but because he now has been re-created unto works. But this is not easily done, because the flesh still wars against the Spirit. Only those who abide with Christ wll by faith will do the work of faith. No one on this board has even hinted that an unsaved person can be saved by works. You seem to have only one doctrine that you preach. The teaching that the walk plays no part in the ultimate saving of the soul is the very reason for the Lukewarm condition of the Churches today. Having no saving faith, they reason that since justification was by belief alone, that they don't have to walk the walk. The churches are full of these and they make Christ sick.

Those who are fighting the fight of faith to live by every Word, are far beyond justification, they are busy teaching the saints how to be holy and ready for Jesus coming. This is not a work of the flesh, but of the Spirit. They work, but it is not them, because they are dead to the flesh, but the Spirit working through them. They use the word to reprove, rebuke and exhort with all long suffering and doctrine. Once one is born, their whole mind and effort needs to be emplovey with growing up into the fullness of Christ. Here again this is not a work of the flesh, it is Christ working through them. The Christian soldier does not need to continually be told that his birth was by faith and not works. He needs meat in due season, not milk. There is virtually no teaching in the churches on how to go on to righteousness, just the constant one note samba, you are saved by faith and not by works.

I see that you are not open to a discussion on these issues orlooking into what others have posted but are so sure that you are right. The message for today is Sanctification in Christ, a growing into practical righteousness, not just theoretical of Justification by faith. You need more that one doctrine. I have no need to argue with you so I shake the dust off my feet.

God bless and keep,

Dennis

[John3;16]

Pilgrim7

John 3:16,

You persist in accusing us of teaching Salvation by works, which is a complete misunderstanding of what we have said and quoted from Scripture.

No unsaved person can be justified by works. The saved person is a new creation.

He is not in the flesh, but in the Spirit. There fore he does not work to earn salvation, but because he now has been re-created unto works. But this is not easily done, because the flesh still wars against the Spirit. Only those who abide with Christ wll by faith will do the work of faith. No one on this board has even hinted that an unsaved person can be saved by works. You seem to have only one doctrine that you preach. The teaching that the walk plays no part in the ultimate saving of the soul is the very reason for the Lukewarm condition of the Churches today. Having no saving faith, they reason that since justification was by belief alone, that they don't have to walk the walk. The churches are full of these and they make Christ sick.

It would seam that we are in agreement on how the unsaved come to Christ, and in reference to the saved person we also have some common agreements, but we also have some disagreements, you stated the saved person is a new creature, which is true, but what you failed to reveal is that we are a new creature with an old nature, although you did concede that the flesh wars against the Spirit which could be considered a conformation of this fact, but the way you expressed the state of the new creation (Saint) is a little bewildering to me, you stated "He is not in the flesh, but in the Spirit" that would be an absolute condition, and the significance of that statement would indicate that once you are saved that you are no longer "in the flesh" which would be contrary to the call for believers to walk in the Spirit, because if you were continuously in the Spirit and could not walk in the flesh or enter into sin, than there would be no need for the call to walk in the spirit so you don