Still Alive Posted August 6, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,024 Content Per Day: 1.33 Reputation: 1,224 Days Won: 3 Joined: 02/05/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted August 6, 2018 6 minutes ago, Sojourner414 said: Jesus wasn't, and He was fully human as well as fully God. Correct. My bad. I usually finish off my tirade with, "...everyone except for one guy, and we hung him on a cross." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted August 6, 2018 Share Posted August 6, 2018 7 minutes ago, Still Alive said: I'm complicating it because words have meaning. Yes, and everyone knows what the words mean. Quote And I have seen way too many people being accused of being racist or sexist according to "what everyone knows the terms mean" and yet with no evidence whatsoever to back up the claim. That doesn't come from not knowing what words mean; quite to the contrary. It is precisely because people know what those words mean, that they are used to accuse people of something in an inflammatory manner even if there is no evidence to back it up. It's why Trump is called a racist, even though there is no evidence of that. It's why anyone that opposed Obama's policies were called "racist." It's full of meaning and everyone knows what that meaning is. Quote If one is going to call another person a "racist" or "sexist", they had better have solid evidence for the claim at their fingertips or they are going to get chewed up and spit out in political/cultural/religious forums. Which is why you should not be trying to make a ridiculous, irrational case that EVERYONE is racist to some degree. If we go by what you say, it completely robs racism of its meaning when real racism does occur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willie T Posted August 6, 2018 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 528 Content Per Day: 0.21 Reputation: 102 Days Won: 1 Joined: 07/26/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted August 6, 2018 24 minutes ago, shiloh357 said: Yes, and everyone knows what the words mean. That doesn't come from not knowing what words mean; quite to the contrary. It is precisely because people know what those words mean, that they are used to accuse people of something in an inflammatory manner even if there is no evidence to back it up. It's why Trump is called a racist, even though there is no evidence of that. It's why anyone that opposed Obama's policies were called "racist." It's full of meaning and everyone knows what that meaning is. Which is why you should not be trying to make a ridiculous, irrational case that EVERYONE is racist to some degree. If we go by what you say, it completely robs racism of its meaning when real racism does occur. I actually find that I agree with that segment of your post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GandalfTheWise Posted August 6, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 24 Topic Count: 40 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,459 Content Per Day: 0.60 Reputation: 2,377 Days Won: 2 Joined: 08/23/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted August 6, 2018 Over the years, I've seen the terms sexist and racist used in 4 general ways by various individuals and groups. 1. Defined as asymmetric descriptions of societal oppressors versus oppressed. These are the people who say that basically only men can be sexist or white people can be racist. Sometimes this is with well-defined behavioral characteristics and sometimes is it any perceived slight. 2. Dismissive insults and pejoratives devoid of objective meaning often used to classify someone or some group as not being worth conversing with because they are too far gone to be worth the effort. 3. Defined basically synonymously with being heavily bigoted against some demographic. This is the general common use most people use which tends to be a dichotomy where someone either is or is not. I.e. a KKK member is a bigot (and racist) whereas the typical person who has good intentions and doesn't care what race someone is is not a bigot and is not racist. 4. Defined as having some degree of prejudgment about individuals in a demographic group. I take close notice of which usage someone is employing in order to figure out what they mean. The terms sexist and racist are used in different ways, some carefully defined and others emotionally heated. When dealing with more intellectual liberals, they often use 1 trying to frame a discussion onto societal inequality rather than human hatred. I think this is also often done to capitalize on asymmetric use of words with strong emotional connotations. When dealing with people shouting and screaming at each other, it is usually 2 or 3. When dealing with people having a calm discussion about human tendencies, foibles, and behaviors, it will probably tend toward 4 with the focus on why people think and feel what they do and to what degree. I tend to avoid using the terms unless my context is absolutely clear to avoid misunderstanding. Strictly speaking, we do all to some degree make prejudgements about individuals and groups based on various demographic characteristics. One can debate what terms and words are best used to describe this, but we do all make some amount of assumptions about people based on various demographic categories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted August 6, 2018 Share Posted August 6, 2018 2 minutes ago, GandalfTheWise said: Over the years, I've seen the terms sexist and racist used in 4 general ways by various individuals and groups. 1. Defined as asymmetric descriptions of societal oppressors versus oppressed. These are the people who say that basically only men can be sexist or white people can be racist. Sometimes this is with well-defined behavioral characteristics and sometimes is it any perceived slight. 2. Dismissive insults and pejoratives devoid of objective meaning often used to classify someone or some group as not being worth conversing with because they are too far gone to be worth the effort. 3. Defined basically synonymously with being heavily bigoted against some demographic. This is the general common use most people use which tends to be a dichotomy where someone either is or is not. I.e. a KKK member is a bigot (and racist) whereas the typical person who has good intentions and doesn't care what race someone is is not a bigot and is not racist. 4. Defined as having some degree of prejudgment about individuals in a demographic group. I take close notice of which usage someone is employing in order to figure out what they mean. The terms sexist and racist are used in different ways, some carefully defined and others emotionally heated. When dealing with more intellectual liberals, they often use 1 trying to frame a discussion onto societal inequality rather than human hatred. I think this is also often done to capitalize on asymmetric use of words with strong emotional connotations. When dealing with people shouting and screaming at each other, it is usually 2 or 3. When dealing with people having a calm discussion about human tendencies, foibles, and behaviors, it will probably tend toward 4 with the focus on why people think and feel what they do and to what degree. I tend to avoid using the terms unless my context is absolutely clear to avoid misunderstanding. Strictly speaking, we do all to some degree make prejudgements about individuals and groups based on various demographic characteristics. One can debate what terms and words are best used to describe this, but we do all make some amount of assumptions about people based on various demographic categories. I have only seen those terms used in 1-3, never in 4. 4 is not racism, nor is it sexism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still Alive Posted August 7, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,024 Content Per Day: 1.33 Reputation: 1,224 Days Won: 3 Joined: 02/05/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted August 7, 2018 15 hours ago, shiloh357 said: Yes, and everyone knows what the words mean. That doesn't come from not knowing what words mean; quite to the contrary. It is precisely because people know what those words mean, that they are used to accuse people of something in an inflammatory manner even if there is no evidence to back it up. It's why Trump is called a racist, even though there is no evidence of that. It's why anyone that opposed Obama's policies were called "racist." It's full of meaning and everyone knows what that meaning is. Which is why you should not be trying to make a ridiculous, irrational case that EVERYONE is racist to some degree. If we go by what you say, it completely robs racism of its meaning when real racism does occur. I agree with everything except that last part. I don't consider it to be ridiculous nor irrational. It points out that calling someone racist or sexist is pointless, if that is all you do. As C.S. Lewis said to a girl that wanted to be a writer, if you want a reader to see a thing you are describing as beautiful, don't say, "it was beautiful". Rather, describe it in such a way that the reader forms the words in their own mind, "That sounds beautiful." i.e. We shouldn't call a person a racist. We should call out their actual words and deeds so that the reader/listener says, in their own mind, "that person is a racist." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 Thought I would just bump this up in light of recent events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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