mrs Posted May 12, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 45 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,081 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 53 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/13/2005 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 12, 2005 Looks like I started a debate after all. Can everyone just keep a couple things in mind? One, I'm here to learn the truth, not just the best answer Two, Instead of just trying to disprove the other's viewpoint, put forward the Scriptural evidence and reasoning for yours and leave it at that ok? Thanx for all the input, I'll be responding later on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricH Posted May 12, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 366 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,933 Content Per Day: 1.57 Reputation: 212 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/21/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted May 12, 2005 Sounds good to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayin jade Posted May 12, 2005 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 44 Topic Count: 6,178 Topics Per Day: 0.87 Content Count: 43,799 Content Per Day: 6.19 Reputation: 11,244 Days Won: 58 Joined: 01/03/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted May 12, 2005 Perhaps PastorEric and truthnluv can expound on this in another thread? I would love to see their discussion continued. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amazingrace Posted May 12, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 16 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 340 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/06/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted May 12, 2005 Looks like I started a debate after all. Can everyone just keep a couple things in mind? One, I'm here to learn the truth, not just the best answer Two, Instead of just trying to disprove the other's viewpoint, put forward the Scriptural evidence and reasoning for yours and leave it at that ok? Thanx for all the input, I'll be responding later on. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Smiles, before this continues, perhaps you might define what you mean by limited atonement?, as there are different definitions. Some will say that by limited atonement they mean that Jesus died only for those whom God knew from the beginning would be saved. Others believe that Jesus indeed died for all the sins of all mankind, but that the atonement is limited to only those who chose to have saving faith. The biblical definition of the atonement of Christ is "reconciliation of God and man through Christ's sacrificial death on the cross" according to the three in one CONCISE Bible Reference Companion, published by Thomas Nelson Publishers. I dont see any limitations in this definition. On the cross, Jesus said "It is finished" ... in aramaic, (I cant spell it correctly... it is something like te tel estai) ... this is a term merchants stamped on receipts meaning "paid in full". My personal view is that Jesus died (paid for, atoned for) the sins of all mankind, but that only those who accept the gift of God's grace, and come to saving faith will indeed be saved. So a distinction has to be made between what Jesus did, and how that gift is received or rejected by each individual. That some choose to refuse saving faith in no way changes the fact that His grace and mercy is available to each and every person who wants it, and will reach out in faith for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truthnluv Posted May 13, 2005 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 93 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/12/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted May 13, 2005 I'll respond more fully later, but do you mind if I ask at which Bible College you learned this hermeneutic? What kind of church do you attend? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Just a small fundamental evangelical Bible College. It doesn't exist anymore. The method of interpretation taught was grammatical-historical. Meaning, that a text should be interpreted based on it's grammatical and historical context. My church is non-denominational, but that term doesn't really reveal much nowadays. Truthnluv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrs Posted May 13, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 45 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,081 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 53 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/13/2005 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 13, 2005 Looks like I started a debate after all. Can everyone just keep a couple things in mind? One, I'm here to learn the truth, not just the best answer Two, Instead of just trying to disprove the other's viewpoint, put forward the Scriptural evidence and reasoning for yours and leave it at that ok? Thanx for all the input, I'll be responding later on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrs Posted May 13, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 45 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,081 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 53 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/13/2005 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 13, 2005 QUOTE(truthnluv @ May 12 2005, 11:49 AM [i) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricH Posted May 13, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 366 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,933 Content Per Day: 1.57 Reputation: 212 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/21/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted May 13, 2005 I would just like to add that I hope I did not come off as attacking. I really appreciate Truthnluvs careful and logical approach to the text. Its just that it is a unique perspective unlimited atonement with limited election. It sort of mixes reformed and armenian concepts. When I find something interesting my mode is to ask questions to try and understand. As I was thinking about this last night it occured to me that at the end of the day Truthnluv and I agree with the final result. I hold that atonement and redemption are limited by God's election. Unless one is elect they will not believe or be redeemed.Truthnluv holds that atonement and redemption are universal, and that belief is limited. Christ's death atoned for all sins, but only those whom God elects will believe. At the end of the day, the result is the same. Only the elect will be saved Again, if I sounded challenging I apologize. I did not mean to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrs Posted May 13, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 45 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,081 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 53 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/13/2005 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 13, 2005 Eric, I didn't feel that you came across challenging.I think you guys are exhibiting brotherly love. The only reason I posted that about a debate was to clarify why I started the thread. Thankyou for your input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truthnluv Posted May 14, 2005 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 93 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/12/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted May 14, 2005 (edited) However, sinners do get some benefits. Edited May 14, 2005 by truthnluv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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