Pub Theology

[Still Alive]

21 minutes ago, Yowm said:

These are pastors who think the Church is still living in the innocency of the 1950s. They run on those stereotypes and think (they aren't really) they are shocking us with their libertine views (as if it was something new to us). I yawn at the show, it's been replayed a dozen times over.

Enjoy your Expresso lol.

I quit my last bar band, EVER, only a year ago. I saw it as a great ministry to the band members and some of the patrons and it did have it's moments. but I decided my time could be better spent in other ways. 

In my last gig with them, during the break I was marveling at the dirt racing cars on one of the TV's in the place and the band leader said to me. "I don't get you, man. How can you be talking about race cars when there are all these "t*ts" everywhere? I explained it to him. One time he even set me up and had some "hot chick" come over and plop down in my lap. I immediately jumped up and she was VERY apologetic.

I do think those kinds of experiences get filed away in those folks brains for later recall that could bring them to Christ at their personal "harvsting" moment. I saw myself as strictly a seed planter. 

I never tried to distort God's word, though. 

Edited September 26, 2018 by Still Alive

[Still Alive]

1 minute ago, Yowm said:

Thanks for the illustration. 

You're quite welcome. Notice I kept it to just a few short paragraphs?

Here's some more: At rehearsals they seemed to always want to bring up my religious beliefs and they actually listened quite intently. The Band Leader's wife was especially open to the message I was sharing, which, under the circumstances was a very good thing.

But like I said, for me it was all about planting seeds. 

[Dennis1209]

Makes me wonder if there's a limit these days? Man's attempt to worship God the way 'he' sees fit with the lusts of the flesh.

Romans 1:21 (KJV) Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

[Guest 1sheep]

42 minutes ago, Still Alive said:

I quit my last bar band, EVER, only a year ago. I saw it as a great ministry to the band members and some of the patrons and it did have it's moments. but I decided my time could be better spent in other ways. 

In my last gig with them, during the break I was marveling at the dirt racing cars on one of the TV's in the place and the band leader said to me. "I don't get you, man. How can you be talking about race cars when there are all these "t*ts" everywhere? I explained it to him. One time he even set me up and had some "hot chick" come over and plop down in my lap. I immediately jumped up and she was VERY apologetic.

I do think those kinds of experiences get filed away in those folks brains for later recall that could bring them to Christ at their personal "harvsting" moment. I saw myself as strictly a seed planter. 

I never tried to distort God's word, though. 

Christ didnt hang out with the lost. He said what needed to be said and moved on.  We are to do the same. I do not agree with the methodology you have descibed because quite frankly it isnt biblical but it is typical  of the modern evangelical church.  I also think that being in the band fed your carnal man  flesh that wanted to be a rock star when you were younger.  God says bad company corrupts good morals and what fellowship is there between light and darkness. Sorry if I am offensive to you but I am not buying your "planting seeds" rhetoric!

Edited September 26, 2018 by 1sheep

[Guest 1sheep]

3 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said:

Makes me wonder if there's a limit these days? Man's attempt to worship God the way 'he' sees fit with the lusts of the flesh.

Romans 1:21 (KJV) Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

They followed not the truth because it is offensive. They want their ears tickled. 

[frienduff thaylorde]

3 minutes ago, 1sheep said:

Christ didnt hang out with the lost. He said what needed to be said and moved on.  We are to do the same. I do not agree with the methodology you have descibed because quite frankly it isnt biblical but it is typical  of the modern evangelical church.  I also think that being in the band fed your carnal man  flesh that wanted to be a rock star when you were younger.  God says bad company corrupts good morals and what fellowship is there between light and darkness. Sorry if I am offensive to you but I am not buying your "planting seeds" rhetoric!

Well, one sheep ,   YOU SPOTTED well that new rick warren type of evangelism .   which is and has destroyed most churches and how worse it will get in time .

ONE WHIFF and you spotted it .    This too is the false evangelism that must be corrected .  

They take scrips CONSTANTLY out of text to support Being unequally yoked .   Bad teachings lead to FALLEN CHURCHES .

We simply go out and witness .   And those who hear amen , and those who don't ,  we do as JESUS said too .  MOVE ON shaking the dust off your feet as a testimony

against those who reject .  WHAT we don't do , is just keep hanging out .  

They also take paul out of text .   

They will use how paul would reason with the jews for weeks on end and use that to say JUST HANG OUT with them .

WRONG again.

While its true paul did witness for weeks on end at times ,   LET US REMEMBER ,  every time HE WAS around them , HE WAS preaching JESUS

NOT talking about football , the weather and having a grand ole time . 

IF we do the pattern JESUS set

the Division Will occur .    How many folks WHO DONT want JESUS are going to KEEP inviting you back to dinner , IF ALL YOU TALK about IS JESUS and warn out against error.

THE NEW WAY to evangelize is a LIE and I am so happy YOU SEE RIGHT THROUGH IT .

[frienduff thaylorde]

On ‎9‎/‎24‎/‎2018 at 12:36 PM, shiloh357 said:

“EMERGENT INEBRIATES: Some Thoughts on Pub Theology”

By Larry DeBruyn

As he begins to rip into “a screaming guitar solo,” a band member sarcastically yells out at the audience, “Let’s go to church boys!”[1] Welcome to Pub Theology. As the reporter describes it, Pub Theology is “a Sunday night show that’s one part church and one part party.” Among other posters on the barroom walls, one alludes to the final verse of the biblical chapter on love. It reads, “Faith, Hope, Love and Beer” (The biblical text reads, “But now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love” 1 Corinthians 13:13, NASB).

Being “shaggy-haired, body-pierced and colored with assorted body art,” members of the Sunday evening pub rock group double as members of a mega-church’s “worship team” on Sunday mornings. Confessing to love both Jesus and rock ‘n’ roll, band members will burn through a pack of cigarettes and exhort the audience to visit the bar and buy beer during Sunday night “church.” Initially skeptical about hosting Pub Theology on Sunday nights, the bar owner now admits the band has turned an otherwise dead night into a profitable evening.

Regarding this new outreach–the mega-church’s ministerial staff approve of doing Pub Theology–one of the band’s members says: “We want to be sincere and authentic and be who we really are, whether that is wearing jeans and a T-shirt or having a beer. I think that is real” he continues, “and I don’t think it is wrong or that God is unhappy about that.” Relates another band member: “I can drink a beer and smoke a cigarette and play some of my favorite songs and hang out with my friends and maybe meet someone and tell them about Jesus.”

Interestingly, most of the band members were raised in religious homes. In fact, two of its members are former PKS (That’s an acronym for “preacher’s kids.”). Having been a former pastor, their father has now become the band’s “roadie” (That’s a term which refers to the managers and technicians traveling with the band.). The members account for the band’s existence and approach to ministry for reason of their holier-than-thou Wesleyan upbringing–you know, “I don’t drink, I don’t smoke, I don’t go to R-rated movies, I don’t dance.”

On this point, and as a rebellious child of the 60s who too was raised in the legalistic environment of Western Michigan, let me say that I understand and somewhat sympathize with the band members’ rejection of legalism. But all rebels ought to be cautioned that, “rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry” (1 Samuel 15:23). Yet God doesn’t make Christians from the outside in, but rather from the inside out. Though one’s Christianity is defined by inner faith not outer works, Paul did write that Christians are God’s “workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them” (Ephesians 2:10). So we must not assume the opposite attitude from legalism, that of antinomianism (i.e., that God’s grace cancels out any need to obey His moral and spiritual law). For as Paul asked: “What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?” (Romans 6:1-2). Contradicting antinomianism the writer of Hebrews orders us to, “Follow [pursue-NKJV] . . . holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord: Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled” (Hebrews 12:14-15).

Nevertheless, the casual and alcoholically lubricated atmosphere of Pub Theology raises an important issue, for as the reporter asks, “Does Pub Theology produce any lasting effects, or is it just a casual encounter with church in a bar—a spiritual one-night stand?” All the band’s claims of “doing ministry” notwithstanding—they do field questions about Christianity from the audience and callers-in, give inebriated individuals rides home, and have even seen one rescued drunk baptized a few days later in their church—Pub Theology shows every symptom of being a carnal “one-night-stand.” (Note: I do not use the word spiritual.)

First, Pub Theology is not church. If it is, then where’s the reading of Scripture, the apostles’ teaching, prayer and observance of the Lord’s Table? (Acts 2:42) But on this point, we can be certain that the band will avoid any impression of being too “churchly or preachy.” But beer steins are no substitute for communion cups. In fact, to the true church, the apostle Peter announced that, “the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries” (1 Peter 4:3).

Second, Pub Theology is not theology. Reportedly, the band’s opening song was Joan Osborne’s one-hit wonder, “What if God was one of us?” The lyrics add, “Just a slob like one of us.”[2] Imagine . . . God being a slob like the rest of the inebriated crowd at the bar. Given such a humanizing of God, what we’re dealing with is not Pub Theology, but pub idolatry. “And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things” (Romans 1:23). Do you think Joan Osborne’s lyrical questions in any way resemble or affirm the great Christological passages of the New Testament? (John 1:1 ff.; Colossians 1:15-17; Philippians 2:5-11). By the way, these cited passages are comprised of theological statements extracted from early Christian hymns. Would the pub theology band sing them? I’d think they’d estimate that the lyrics of these biblical hymns are far too dogmatic, stodgy, and preachy for the “boys” at the bar!

Third, Pub Theology is not Christian outreach. To attain a “spiritual” end, it employs carnal, fleshly, and worldly means. But the apostle Paul wrote to the Ephesians, “And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit; Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord” (Ephesians 5:18-19). If the song “What if God was one of us?” gives any indication, probably none of the other music the band plays includes “psalms, and hymns, and spiritual songs.”

The apostle Paul would not have employed carnal means to attain spiritual ends. You can’t fight fire with fire. He wrote:

For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;) Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God.  (2 Corinthians 10:3-5; compare Galatians 5:21 where Paul labels “drunkenness” a work of the flesh).

So we conclude: Given the atmosphere surrounding Pub Theology, the description of love as it exists on a poster at “Sunday-night-church-in-a-bar” might be parodied to read: Now abide these four, “faith, hope, love, and beer,” but the greatest of these is beer!

https://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/blog/?p=28858

EXACTLY . 

[frienduff thaylorde]

Exactly .     from bad evangelism to worse evangelism .    the way to catch true fish is to bait the line with SPIRITUAL bait ,

but baiting the line with fleshly bait wont win to JESUS .   only to an image OF HIM ,   and a false love that is not compatible TO a HOLY GOD

and as drinks are being clanged and toasts are made ,   rest assured ,  tis the wrong image o JESUS being evangelized and that saves none . 

[frienduff thaylorde]

55 minutes ago, naominash said:

I had to learn this the hard way. 

We have to spend our time carefully. I've grown so much from deciding against being around bad influences and choosing to fellowship with God's people. I realize now that hanging out with people who weren't about following Christ only hurt my witness and my faith. 

Today, I tried to witness to someone, but they were too drunk to even get all of what I was saying. I hope I can be a light, but I just moved on and ended the conversation. 

Edit: I was only made aware how important this was by looking up a sermon about it. This isn't a common idea!

Well onward into the trenches my dear sister .    we about to understand , BY EXPERIENCING IT ,   what it was like in the days of LOTT and Noah.

OH so few were even desiring truth anymore and OH how the world and socities had went from bad to worse , to the ultimate worst .   

But we KNOW sister that the end had to come in someones generation .    And we know , what OUR LORD said about how it would look near the end .

AND all  I ever heard HIM say and the apostels say  , was seducers and deceivers would only increase mega fold, and not some , BUT MANY would follow

their pernicious ways . And sister ,  YOU just take a SOLID peek around and tell me ,  IF IT aint heading from bad to worse and just worse with decetpoins , lusts and sin abounding

and evil being called good and now they hunt the ends of the earth , TO FIND any WHO DARES resist their sin .    SISTER ,  its only getting worse from here on out .

BUT I GOT THE MOST WONDERFUL NEWS .   JESUS WILL BE WITH US THROUGH IT ALL.   AND DEAR SISTER ,  that is THE ONLY HOPE THIS MAN NEEDS .   NOW LEAP UP

and praise the LORD .   even in death ,   HE IS OURS and we are HIS .   so fear nothing this world will bring against us .  INSTEAD ,  focus ON THE LORD

and the JOY of HIS salvation , that HE  was so very merciful to wicked things such as we were , and HE IS OUR GUIDE and CAN KEEP us from falling .

NOW sister ,  WE GOT ALL REASON to rejoice In the LORD .  But let us keep ever viligant , for the devil is seducing all through men who can even appear as righteous ,

Let us not heed the darkness of deception and lies .  LET US HEED THE LORD .    and on that note ,   I THINK WE ALL KNOW WHAT TIME IT IS ,  ITS PRAISE O CLOCK

THE LORD TIME .     no fear , GOD IS WITH US . NO fear IMMANUEL .   PRAISE THE LORD with a sound of praise and thanksgiving .  AND PRAISE HIM with hands raised high .

[Guest 1sheep]

1 hour ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

Well, one sheep ,   YOU SPOTTED well that new rick warren type of evangelism .   which is and has destroyed most churches and how worse it will get in time .

ONE WHIFF and you spotted it .    This too is the false evangelism that must be corrected .  

They take scrips CONSTANTLY out of text to support Being unequally yoked .   Bad teachings lead to FALLEN CHURCHES .

We simply go out and witness .   And those who hear amen , and those who don't ,  we do as JESUS said too .  MOVE ON shaking the dust off your feet as a testimony

against those who reject .  WHAT we don't do , is just keep hanging out .  

They also take paul out of text .   

They will use how paul would reason with the jews for weeks on end and use that to say JUST HANG OUT with them .

WRONG again.

While its true paul did witness for weeks on end at times ,   LET US REMEMBER ,  every time HE WAS around them , HE WAS preaching JESUS

NOT talking about football , the weather and having a grand ole time . 

IF we do the pattern JESUS set

the Division Will occur .    How many folks WHO DONT want JESUS are going to KEEP inviting you back to dinner , IF ALL YOU TALK about IS JESUS and warn out against error.

THE NEW WAY to evangelize is a LIE and I am so happy YOU SEE RIGHT THROUGH IT .

I have what I call  the" Jesus Repellant" . If they dont want to hear it; they dont come near me.  :GOD IN ME OFFENDS DARKNESS. LOL .... Dancing with joy for my Jesus Repellant!!! Hahahaha