Do You Really Love The Sinner Hate The Sin

[Guest shiloh357]

Just now, Badjao33 said:

They very well may have been saved, but they were not yet born again and had no concept of the gospel.

You don't know what they did or did not know. 

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I know that is a technicality, but the disciples were sinners just as you and I are and Jesus still chose and befriended them not only before they believed in Him and were saved, but also before they were born again. 

No, that is not true.  They were not "befriended" before they believed in Jesus.   Jesus was a Rabbi and they were his disciples and that was the nature of the relationship. It was not a mutual friendship, it was a master/student relationship. 

 

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Could you be friends with a Jew? 

A Messianic Jew, yes. A non-believing Jew, no.  And a non-believing Jew would not want to be friends with me. 

[Guest shiloh357]

3 hours ago, Badjao33 said:

I know they had no concept of the gospel we preach today because the Bible tells us this. 

They didn't know the details, as those prophecies hadn't been fulfilled, but you really don't have a clue about what they did or did not understand.

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The gospel was not known until it was revealed to Paul by the Resurrected Jesus. 

Wrong.  The Bible doesn't say that.   The Gospel was already going out long before Paul got saved and people were getting saved, which is why Paul was on the road to Damascus; to kill/imprison them.   And the Gospel was preached to Abraham.  The Gospel is first revealed in Genesis 22: 15-18.   So it was known and available.   They were looking forward toward the cross and we are looking backwards at the cross, but salvation was fully available before Jesus even went to the cross.   Salvation was available by grace through faith in the OT. 

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At first there was disagreement among the apostles between what Paul was teaching and what they were. This debate can be found in Acts 15 (The Council at Jerusalem), but in the end it was agreed that the Gentiles were free from the requirements of the of the Jews for salvation. It was also decided that Paul and the others would minister to the gentiles and Peter and the apostles would continue their ministry among the Jews.

Actually, that was a debate about how uncircumcised Gentiles could qualify to enter the Kingdom of God. 

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So when Jesus called his disciples friends, it had another meaning? 

That was in the upper room in John 15:15 where again, the term had a very, very intimate usage and they were already believers. 

[frienduff thaylorde]

12 hours ago, Badjao33 said:

Here is what I have been able to find in scripture on this subject. 

I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people;  I did not at all mean with the immoral people of this world, or with the covetous and swindlers, or with idolaters, (1 Corinthians 5:9-10)

Here is the Greek word that is used for associate in that verse. 

The English definition of associate is to join as a partner, friend, or companion. 

I have also shown earlier in the thread that Paul had unbelievers as friends. 

And when Paul wanted to go into the assembly, the disciples would not let him. Also some of the Asiarchs who were friends of his sent to him and repeatedly urged him not to venture into the theater. (Acts 19:30-31)

Here is the Greek word used for friend in that verse.

As we can see, it is used in the same way as in John 15:4. 

I see no problem with being friends with unbelievers, because I can't find any Biblical support not to and I feel it is an important part of our personal witness to the dying world. 

 

I see  what the problem is now .     And I want you to pray and ponder deep about what I say next .

Before I was saved I could easily enjoy the company of immoral unbelievers ,  as I was one myself .

But the DAY ,   the Hour the LORD drew me ,    my whole desire changed .    I have absolutely nothing in common with even most of my flesh family .

The only joy I have is around true beleivers .      While I definitely believe we should be friendly to all,   I have no desire to hang out and just do as I used to do .

Its like their is no connection to unbelievers , nothing in common .   Now ,  I talk to folks , sure I do .    But no desire to be friends .   We have nothing in common .

Even with my old friends .   EVERYTHING changed the day Christ drew me .   If I seen them ,  it was just joy to talk about the LORD

but not desire to hang around them .   It was as though a truly was given a whole new heart with new desires .

Even when would hear things rick warren and tons of others would say about this find common ground ,  find what you have in common with unbelievers

and just be their friend .  it was all empty vain talk to my ears .

SO I have TWO questions I want you dear sir to  take serious .    You have no need to answer .  just ponder them .

How come your old friends still want to hang out with you and you with them .     When my old friends saw Christ in me ,  THEY RAN . 

And number two .  How come your desires are so different and your evangelizing so different .

Now ,   I am asking questions , I FEAR I know the answer too .   But wont say .     But I don't ask them to make you feel condmend .    I ASK THEM to MAKE YOU THINK .  and PRAY .

[frienduff thaylorde]

2 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

They didn't know the details, as those prophecies hadn't been fulfilled, but you really don't have a clue about what they did or did not understand.

Wrong.  The Bible doesn't say that.   The Gospel was already going out long before Paul got saved and people were getting saved, which is why Paul was on the road to Damascus; to kill/imprison them.   And the Gospel was preached to Abraham.  The Gospel is first revealed in Genesis 22: 15-18.   So it was known and available.   They were looking forward toward the cross and we are looking backwards at the cross, but salvation was fully available before Jesus even went to the cross.   Salvation was available by grace through faith in the OT. 

Actually, that was a debate about how uncircumcised Gentiles could qualify to enter the Kingdom of God. 

That was in the upper room in John 15:15 where again, the term had a very, very intimate usage and they were already believers. 

YEP .   again I am so worried for badjao .   its like his intellect ,  is all carnal wisdom .    Something is missing .    AND I dare not say what it is ,  cause folks get banned .

But I can see it very clear .    I wish the guy would stop and just listen to what some of us are saying .

EVERYONE of us ,  has said we are friendly to unbelievers and the GOSPLE is FIRST .  

But badjao ,   his intellect sounds like what rick warren , brian McLaren ,  evangelism .   And truly those two men alone are in upmost darkness .

I am truly worried for badjoa.   

[frienduff thaylorde]

11 hours ago, Davida said:

Well, the Bible also doesn't explicitly give us examples that believers were not to cut off our left arm and paint it purple either.  That is a poor argument &  not the way submitted followers read the Bible.  The Bible is clear that Jesus went to the sinners, he preached the kingdom of heaven to all , but  he didn't make friends with them. His friends were the disciples. 

YES SISTER .    lets end this debate WITH who JESUS considers a friend .

YOU ARE MY FRIENDS ..................IF YOU DO WHATSOVER I COMMAND YOU .    unbelievers don't do that , NOW Do they .

SEE sister .   WE  USE JESUS own words to define WHO a FRIEND IS .    who FAMILY IS .  

We don't listen to who the worldy preachers try and say A FRIEND IS .    WE HEED JESUS .     You would think this would end the debate for badjao .  BUT IT WONT .

[frienduff thaylorde]

12 hours ago, Yowm said:

Which Christians befriended Paul before his conversion? Yet that didn't stop Paul from receiving Jesus.

Yowm its way clear this man is of the seeker friendly style .   

Remember the ones who went door to door asking UNBELIEVERS what would get them into church .

The last time I checked ,   we never PANDER or change the gospel to win souls .   BUT THEY DID , and thus none were won ,  and the churches

now are agreeing more and more with sin , instead of preaching repentance , it went to acceptance .  and from acceptance its going to full out agreement

and from that , we are now seeing these churches call us haters for warning .    Its just a bad place to be in for them . 

[frienduff thaylorde]

11 hours ago, LadyKay said:

Yes in deed. Then if God is directing me to befriend someone then I should do so. Even though many here are telling me not to do so.  That is how I live my life and my faith.  Through the direction of the Holy Spirit.  The same go  if God should direct me to cut off a friendship with someone. Then I should do so as well.  I really do not think that we should stand in judgment of our fellow brothers and sister in Christ, based on whom they are friends with. For we never know if the Spirit may have moved them into that direction. 

Miss kay .   if I had a dime for every time I heard someone say GOD is leading them ,  and yet the direction was opposed to HIS WORD ,    I could fund texas .

WE SURE do need to test those spirits .  

[frienduff thaylorde]

11 hours ago, LadyKay said:

I think much of this way of thinking may fall into  what is called "Legalism". Sometimes one can not help who they click with. Then without knowing, a friendship starts to grow.  I think God has gifted each of us with different interest in order to reach like minded people for him.   Well that is what I think. I am sure most of you are going to disagree as you always do.  So carry on. 

I want to ask you something .    And you wont be attacked for your answer .   If I were looking for a good read ,  or a really great pastor.      Which ones would you recommend .

We know the BIBLE is number one  .   so list some other good reads that have helped you along the way .   and some pastors who have .

[frienduff thaylorde]

2 minutes ago, Yowm said:

Yes, popularity contests are not our Lord's thing...

“Woe to you, when all people speak well of you, for so their fathers did to the false prophets.
(Luk 6:26)
 

AND REJOICE when they speak evil of you .      

[LadyKay]

9 hours ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

Miss kay .   if I had a dime for every time I heard someone say GOD is leading them ,  and yet the direction was opposed to HIS WORD ,    I could fund texas .

WE SURE do need to test those spirits .  

I met someone once. She was not a Christian and I was. We became very good friends as we enjoyed much of the same interest in music and old 1950's 1960's tv shows such as " I love Lucy" and "The Honeymooners". It was a rare thing to find someone my age at that time that shared those interest. Anyway, my friend had a brother. He was also not a Christian. I met him and hit it off with him right from the start. I invited him to church one Sunday. He went. Near the end of the service there an altar call.  I felt a tugging at my heart, something telling me I needed to go to the alter. I didn't understand why but I went to the altar as I felt I was being called to do. I knelt down at the alter and had only been there for a few moments when I notice my friend had also come to the altar and knelt down next to me. That day my friend accepted Christ into his heart.  He grew in Christ and now 30 some years he is a good Christian man who still attends the church that he was saved in.  I see him every Sunday at church.  He met another Christian lady who became his wife.   I have no doubt in my mind that God put  him in my path and called me to go to the alter that Sunday  so that my friend would hear and answer the call of Jesus on his heart that day.  As for his sister. She never showed any interest in attending church and after a few years of being friends, we had a falling out and went our different ways.  I hear now though that she is attended a church due to the influence of her Christian bother on her life. 

So others can sit there and judge my walk and tell me I am going against God because I don't follow their rules.  But I believe that God works outside the box that we try to put him in. I will follow his direction and his leading on my life, instead of the"rules" that religious people put in place for me.If I had followed your rules and turn this friendship away because they were not Christians?  It is unlikely this person would have ever found Christ as his savor and have been an influence on his family as well.  Dose God  use this why with every Christian. Maybe not. But that is how he used me.

With that I have nothing more to say. 

Edited October 3, 2018 by LadyKay