Woman of Revelation 12

[dhchristian]

Just now, dhchristian said:

Yup, Hort and Wescott. 

Missing Verses Or removed to footnotes in most modern versions. This does not include Words that are altered and/or omitted. Some versions even Omit more than this for example the RSV omits all of John 7:53-8:11

1.   Matthew 17:21:  "Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting."

 

2.   Matthew 18:11:  "For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost."

 

3.   Matthew 23:14:  "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation."

 

4.    Mark 7:16:  "If any man have ears to hear, let him hear."

 

5.    Mark 9:44:  "Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched."

 

6.    Mark 9:46:  "Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched."

 

7.    Mark 11:26:  "But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses."

 

8.    Mark 15:28:  "And the scripture was fulfilled, which saith, And he was numbered with the transgressors."

 

9.    Luke 17:36:  "Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left."

 

10.    John 5:4:  "For an angel went down at a certain season into the pool, and troubled the water: whosoever then first after the troubling of the water stepped in was made whole of whatsoever disease he had."

 

11.    Acts 8:37:  "And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."

 

12.    Acts 15:34:  "Notwithstanding it pleased Silas to abide there still."

 

13.    Acts 24:7:  "But the chief captain Lysias came upon us, and with great violence took him away out of our hands,"

 

14.    Acts 28:29:  "And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves."

 

15.   Romans 16:24:  "The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen."

 

16.   I John 5:7:  "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, dhchristian said:

May God strike me down if I am lying, But this all comes with study of the word of God, and Prayer. No man is an Island, and there are always external influences, But I am alone on this topic of the Saints. Besides the RC church that venerates the Saints, only the church of England sees them as separate from faithful, and their doctrines are so messed up, it is not funny. The Problem is Most people in the churches are not Born of the Spirit. Here read this excerpt from A.W. Tozer.

Surely God has that to say to the pure in heart which He cannot say to the man of sinful life. But what He has to say is not theological, it is spiritual; and right there lies the weight of my argument. Spiritual truths cannot be received in the ordinary way of nature.

"The natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned" (1 Cor. 2:14).

So wrote the apostle Paul to the believers at Corinth. Our Lord referred to this kind of Spirit-enlightened knowledge many times. To Him it was the fruit of a divine illumination, not contrary to but altogether beyond mere intellectual light. The fourth Gospel is full of this idea; indeed the idea is so important to the understanding of John's Gospel that anyone who denies it might as well give up trying to grasp our Lord's teachings as given by the apostle John. And the same idea is found in John's first epistle, making that epistle extremely difficult to understand but also making it one of the most beautiful and rewarding of all the epistles of the New Testament when its teachings are spiritually discerned.

The necessity for spiritual illumination before we can grasp spiritual truths is taught throughout the entire New Testament and is altogether in accord with the teachings of the Psalms, the Proverbs and the Prophets. The Old Testament Apocrypha agrees with the Scriptures here, and while the Apocryphal books are not to be received as divinely inspired, they are useful as showing how the best minds of ancient Israel thought about this matter of divine truth and how it is received into the human heart.

So the Who there is the Holy Ghost. If you must, Test the Spirit in me.... Jesus is the LORD (1 cor 12:3) He was fully man and came in the flesh, and fully God incarnate. (1 John 4:1) He was, and Is and Is to come. Like I said, Be Berreans, But do not reject what I am saying because it does not fit your framework of How end times are supposed to happen. At the very least the study will open your eyes to these things. 

It is VERY possible for born again people to listen to any voice that is presented: a demonic spirit, the voice of imagination, their own human spirit, and hopefully the voice of Our Lord.  This should be proven over and over by the number of different denominations  - all thinking THEY have the truth.  I find what you said very very enlightening:

" do not reject what I am saying because it does not fit your framework of How end times are supposed to happen."

This is exactly what you have done with what I have written; you have rejected it. Why? It did not fit your "framework."

You know the verse: My sheep know my voice..." I wonder, have you EVER heard the voice of our Lord, with words spoken to you?

[dhchristian]

Just now, iamlamad said:

As usual, I must disagree. This is Greek, not Hebrew. "Departing" is a good translation. If there is a divorce, one part departs. the thing is, Apostasia does not tell what is being departed from. It is just a simple departing. 

Apostosia is rooted in the word for divorcement. as I showed you earlier. This is a classic case of opposites in meaning. The Words cannot be translated the other way. It may make sense to Your end time framework, but it is not linguistically allowed. R

RE: the Hebrew, I am referring to some words in the Old Testament, that were just Transliterated Hebrew words. I Am not trying to malign these translators, they did the best with what they had to work with, and were God fearing men, Unlike Hort and Wescott. I have used the Tyndale version numerous times just to see as it predates the KJV, and the KJV translators used it as a guide when they translated.  The Apostacy is not just spoken of there in scripture (2 Thes. 2:3), But elsewhere, especially the letters to the church of Laodicea, and by Paul in first and second Timothy. Since we have not brought that into our discussion, let me quote it for you.

¶

This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

2Ti 3:2

For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

2Ti 3:3

Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

2Ti 3:4

Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

2Ti 3:5

Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

2Ti 3:6

For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,

2Ti 3:7

Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

2Ti 3:8

Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.

2Ti 3:9

But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was.

 

And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death. (Luke 21:16)

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, dhchristian said:

I will stick to the Word of God, and the teachings of the Holy Ghost. The following is the addendum I added to the Tozer Post Earlier, You would do well to listen to it.

Just Like everything God does, Satan mimics his ways, and offers a counterfeit spirit and counterfeit illumination to those who reject the Word of God and reject the Truth. They "see" dreams and have visions, perform miracles, cast out devils Just like one who is Born of the Holy Spirit, But they do not KNOW Jesus who is the Truth personified. All of scripture, Prophecy and doctrine without knowing Jesus and having His Spirit teaching you is like trying to read an instruction manual in a foreign language.

So When someone believes in a different Jesus, than the Jesus of the Word of God, their illumination comes from an alternate source. They may not swear allegiance to Satan, or even Believe in His existence, but they are serving him nonetheless. They may even have a form of godliness, the spirit of religion in them, But they are Serving Satan.

This is why the test of the spirit is so vital to our walk with the LORD. This is why every Apostle warned us of false teachers and false prophets. To Ignore this test and receive these false teachers is akin to letting a child molester play with your children. You would never allow this now would you?

God Bless.

Satan mimics his ways, and offers a counterfeit spirit and counterfeit illumination to those who reject the Word of God and reject the Truth.

I would say then, you are in grave danger, for you have been rejecting the truth - but just don't know it yet. 

What does the WORD say?

Joel 2:28

And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

 

REAL men and woman of God dream spiritual dreams and see visions from God.  How do we test? There is only one way to test: We test a dream or a vision by the written word of God.  However, just like a banker must know everything there is to know about a REAL US printed bill, so if one is to test a dream or vision, they must know the truth of the word.

[dhchristian]

Just now, iamlamad said:

This is exactly what you have done with what I have written; you have rejected it. Why? It did not fit your "framework."

You know the verse: My sheep know my voice..." I wonder, have you EVER heard the voice of our Lord, with words spoken to you?

No, I have not rejected your theory, I have merely said it is piece of the whole. This offends you, I take by your defensiveness.

Yes. Audibly once. The Holy Ghost speaks to my spirit in my Prayers and studies. 

[dhchristian]

Just now, iamlamad said:

I would say then, you are in grave danger, for you have been rejecting the truth - but just don't know it yet. 

What does the WORD say?

Joel 2:28

And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

 

REAL men and woman of God dream spiritual dreams and see visions from God.  How do we test? There is only one way to test: We test a dream or a vision by the written word of God.  However, just like a banker must know everything there is to know about a REAL US printed bill, so if one is to test a dream or vision, they must know the truth of the word.

I Invite you to test the Spirit in me to see if he is from God. Read 1 John 4:1-6, We are instructed to do this. We are told to Judge the Prophets and the dreams to see if they are from God. The first test  is to see if the Spirit in them is from God. It is quite easy to tell actually once you know what your looking for. Jesus Did not leave us to our minds to figure this out, he gave us the Holy Ghost, the Spirit of Truth. 

Quite frankly, I am shocked that 70 or so posts into this now I have yet to be tested, tells me you are not doing your due diligence as a teacher.

[dhchristian]

Just now, iamlamad said:

I would say then, you are in grave danger, for you have been rejecting the truth

You are obviously not operating in the Spirit, for all truth is Spiritually discerned, It is not mentally discerned. Do You even know the difference?

[iamlamad]

1 minute ago, dhchristian said:

Apostosia is rooted in the word for divorcement. as I showed you earlier. This is a classic case of opposites in meaning. The Words cannot be translated the other way. It may make sense to Your end time framework, but it is not linguistically allowed. R

RE: the Hebrew, I am referring to some words in the Old Testament, that were just Transliterated Hebrew words. I Am not trying to malign these translators, they did the best with what they had to work with, and were God fearing men, Unlike Hort and Wescott. I have used the Tyndale version numerous times just to see as it predates the KJV, and the KJV translators used it as a guide when they translated.  The Apostacy is not just spoken of there in scripture (2 Thes. 2:3), But elsewhere, especially the letters to the church of Laodicea, and by Paul in first and second Timothy. Since we have not brought that into our discussion, let me quote it for you.

¶

This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

 

2Ti 3:2

For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

 

2Ti 3:3

Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

 

2Ti 3:4

Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

 

2Ti 3:5

Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

 

2Ti 3:6

For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,

 

2Ti 3:7

Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

 

2Ti 3:8

Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.

 

2Ti 3:9

But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was.

 

And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death. (Luke 21:16)

Strong's gives us this:   Apostasia is a feminine of "apostasion."  This word was used three times for divorce.  The root of apostasion is "aphistēmi."

It is used as follows: depart (10x), draw away (1x), fall away (1x), refrain (1x), withdraw self (1x), depart from

Notice this root word is used for "depart" and "depart from." In other words, it CERTAINLY can mean depart.

Notice that this word does not carry ANY information as to who or what is being departed from.  In  Acts 21:21 Luke had to include that it was Moses being departed from.

The question is not whether the bible shows  Apostasia in any other verses as "departing" (which it does) but whether apostasia CAN MEAN a departing? And can it mean a spatial departure?

You correctly mention "divorce." I would remind you, a divorce is not a spiritual departing, it is a physical departing. It is a spatial departing.

You still have not answered by question:

How would YOU explain that in 3b the man of sin Is (as in was) revealed? 

[iamlamad]

9 minutes ago, dhchristian said:

You are obviously not operating in the Spirit, for all truth is Spiritually discerned, It is not mentally discerned. Do You even know the difference?

I was just going by what you wrote!

[dhchristian]

Just now, dhchristian said:

We test a dream or a vision by the written word of God.

That is a good start. The real problem is that you do not like message I am bringing to you here. It is not the smooth words you are accustomed to hearing in the church, and about the church. How she is falling away. Rather you try and say she is growing exponentially, because attendance numbers are up and 1/3 of the World claims to be Christian. the Problem is that the church has become a Harlot. And she is now turning on those who are truly Born again, and living in the Spirit and the passage is beginning to happen now from Luke that I quoted above, where brothers are ganging upon Brothers and Love is Waxing Cold. I Have witnessed it here on this site.

Do You think I like saying these things? Do you think I make money from saying these things? Do you think I care how many people like what I have to say? I say these things because HE has shown them to me and he cares that his church is falling away. Now of course you are welcome to crawl back into your  secure spot where you have it all figured out, Or you can take the steps needed to overcome. I am not here to preach a smooth sermon. I may be flawed in how I say what I say, but I can assure you that these Words are from the Holy Ghost.