thomas t Posted December 7, 2018 Group: Senior Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 46 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 944 Content Per Day: 0.22 Reputation: 170 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/05/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/20/1980 Author Share Posted December 7, 2018 If it's all but clear what Bible teaches, than anyone could cloud faith. No need to clarify things so then? Those who don't want to give it some more thought could ask: If you can't find clear answers in the Bible so why give it a thought? Everyone can stick no matter what in the Bible and expect it to be just fine? No. 1 hour ago, Uber Genius said: Structure has elements of anaphora and chiasms, Ancient historiography has them, too. For instance Cicero. God is an artist, that's why he uses them. 2 hours ago, Uber Genius said: So we don't have a defense of evil and suffering in our world anywhere in the Bible ... because man is responsible for that for the most part, I think. We shouldn't be shifting the blame and expect God to provide answers for that, I think. I mean, in the case of Job it was the devil. But we have the whole book analysing it, so why do you come up with the idea of "no defense" for it? 2 hours ago, Uber Genius said: so why would we expect the author to intuit lack of understanding by readers that would occur thousands of years after writing it? it's not a lack of interpretation, it is overinterpreting it, I think. Just the way wise men do it. Like using mere gaps between the lines such as Gen 1:2 and Gen 1:3 as a means of conveying secret messages? One day in Gen 1 equals billions of years whereas the seventh day just a week or so? Just because it seems senseless to believe God to have made a long break? This, in my opinion, is picking and choosing of why we would take some passages metaphorically whereas we stay with literal understanding when it says that Jesus died and resurrected three days after? Best Regards, Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 On ‎12‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 6:59 AM, Still Alive said: I repeat my earlier questions: 1. Essential for what? And as I have said before, for Christian living and spiritual growth. Quote 2. Where does any book in the protestant canon say that it or any other book in the protestant canon is "essential", cover to cover. And if it doesn't, who told you that and why did you believe them? It doesn't say that in those words, but the Bible is an interlocking system of doctrine. The Doctrines of Scripture are born out in every book of Scripture. It is also a system where truth is revealed progressively through the ages as the Bible progressive from start to finish. It builds upon itself. What is revealed in latter parts are built upon what has been revealed previously.  You cannot regard one part as nonessential when they contribute to one unified message. Quote  I will explain why I said this is about semantics: I see the bible as a user manual for the human being. Is every word in a user manual essential? Well, technically, it could be. I don't care about all sections all the time, but when I need a particular section, it becomes essential at that time.  And that would be poor analogy with regard to the Bible. The Bible is not anything like a user manual.   Quote An important thing to remember, however, is that though every word in the Protestant Canon is useful for teaching, etc., not one word was written to me. Not one. However, it was ALL written FOR me. That is why the letter to Romans is useful FOR me. It was written TO the church in Rome. However, when faced with the same issues and sub issues they were faced with and Paul addressed in his letter to them, I can glean wisdom for my particular situation by reading what Paul said to the Roman church. It is not merely useful. It is essential. All of it.   Quote And you bet I sit in "judgement" of what is in the bible. Every human being with a brain and a spirit should. We are admonished to test the spirits. Testing the spirits does not include the Bible. The Bible is the Word of God, from God to us.   The admonition about testing every spirit only applies to what we hear from other people, not from what we get from the Bible.   We do not sit in judgment on the Bible, because it would be tantamount to sitting in judgement on God.    Quote This, in my opinion, includes the written word (AKA scripture). This is one reason he gave us brains. I don't just switch it off when dealing with the teachings of the authors of the books in the bible. And the most important part of that is not whether or not I believe what they said. It is believing how other people interpret what they said - especially those that created our English interpretations. Accepting the Bible as the inspired wholly inerrant, infallible Word of God doesn't require us to turn off our brains.  It's only liberals who think it does.  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still Alive Posted December 7, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,024 Content Per Day: 1.33 Reputation: 1,224 Days Won: 3 Joined: 02/05/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted December 7, 2018 5 minutes ago, shiloh357 said: And as I have said before, for Christian living and spiritual growth. It doesn't say that in those words, but the Bible is an interlocking system of doctrine. The Doctrines of Scripture are born out in every book of Scripture. It is also a system where truth is revealed progressively through the ages as the Bible progressive from start to finish. It builds upon itself. What is revealed in latter parts are built upon what has been revealed previously.  You cannot regard one part as nonessential when they contribute to one unified message.  I completely agree with that. In fact, I see the NT as mainly commentary and explanation of the OT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Free Posted December 7, 2018 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 88 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 1,276 Content Per Day: 0.62 Reputation: 290 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/15/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted December 7, 2018 One thing to remember about climate change is the implementation of the Carbon Tax. This is a wealth redistribution scheme that takes power from the individual and corporations and hands it to the world governing body. This is a very important piece of legislation to the Power Elite and they spend lots of money to sway public opinion. 90% of "scientific" research in the media is paid for by special interest groups and has not been subjected to peer review at the time of their announcement. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still Alive Posted December 7, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,024 Content Per Day: 1.33 Reputation: 1,224 Days Won: 3 Joined: 02/05/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted December 7, 2018 37 minutes ago, shiloh357 said: And as I have said before, for Christian living and spiritual growth. It is not essential for those things. I can enjoy Christian living and spiritual growth without ever cracking open a bible. That being said, it is very useful for enhancing both. For "A" to be essential to "B", "B" cannot happen without "A". Yeast is essential in the making of wine. An instruction manual is not, though it will almost certainly enhance the quality of the wine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still Alive Posted December 7, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,024 Content Per Day: 1.33 Reputation: 1,224 Days Won: 3 Joined: 02/05/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted December 7, 2018 40 minutes ago, shiloh357 said: And that would be poor analogy with regard to the Bible. The Bible is not anything like a user manual.  Well, certainly not the ones I've seen created by Chinese writers. It's really just a play on words and concepts I've used for about 30 years. It's an owner's manual for the human body in a sense. But it is used mainly for fun and offering some perspective. No, it is not LITERALLY an owner's manual. But follow its instruction and you will definitely live a better life, both in your human body and after it dies.:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uber Genius Posted December 7, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 36 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 657 Content Per Day: 0.33 Reputation: 244 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/05/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted December 7, 2018 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Scott Free said: One thing to remember about climate change is the implementation of the Carbon Tax. This is a wealth redistribution scheme that takes power from the individual and corporations and hands it to the world governing body. This is a very important piece of legislation to the Power Elite and they spend lots of money to sway public opinion. 90% of "scientific" research in the media is paid for by special interest groups and has not been subjected to peer review at the time of their announcement. This is absolutely true. The majority of funding for climate research come from the National Science Foundation and they will not fund proposals that don't infer climate change as a result of human industrialization. I was informed by a climatologist at a Big Ten school that he could not fund his proposals for historic warming and cooling trends sans the demonstration of direct coorelation to industrialization. He tell his grad students not to submit dissertations that don't conform to NSF trends unless you are NOT planning on working as a professor anywhere in the US. follow the research and follow who universities are hiring and why and you can see an agenda that has little to do with inductive method and evidence-based practice. Similarly, only those professors with tenure have the freedom to work on the origin of speciation without a NeoDarwinian inference.  Climate change is is complex but we can see where scientists have fudged their computer models to produce the desired outcomes. So I have hope we can get back to evidence-based science rather than propaganda as the driver. Historical sciences, like answering the question of what accounts for speciation, are much more complex than climate, and lends themselves to endless ad hoc inferences that are quickly offered as ironclad proof by popular science journals. Crap philosophy of science leads to junk science and a sichophantic secular press and atheists desperate for evidence in support of their naturalistic premises are like a heard of pigs racing down a steep bank into the water. All semblance of a cogent account of speciation will be drowned in an incoherent sea of madness.   Edited December 7, 2018 by Uber Genius 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still Alive Posted December 7, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,024 Content Per Day: 1.33 Reputation: 1,224 Days Won: 3 Joined: 02/05/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted December 7, 2018 43 minutes ago, shiloh357 said: It is not merely useful. It is essential. All of it.   According to 2 tim 3:16... Useful, if you use the NIV:  All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness... Profitable, if you use KJV: All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness Most other versions chose one of those two words. None of them use "essential". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uber Genius Posted December 7, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 36 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 657 Content Per Day: 0.33 Reputation: 244 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/05/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted December 7, 2018 1 hour ago, Still Alive said: Most other versions chose one of those two words. None of them use "essential". Yes most would agree, we have some truculent responses missing the point of the context of the original distinction which was essential DOCTRINE, to which I made an obviously unsuccessful attempt to correct the equivocation but alas querulous and truculent are often attended by stubbornness. At this point, why bother? It may be time to abandon hope of a rational discussion about Essential Doctrine having nothing to do with CANON, or view of sanctification, or view of end times. Your patience outshines my own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still Alive Posted December 7, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,024 Content Per Day: 1.33 Reputation: 1,224 Days Won: 3 Joined: 02/05/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted December 7, 2018 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Uber Genius said: Yes most would agree, we have some truculent responses missing the point of the context of the original distinction which was essential DOCTRINE, to which I made an obviously unsuccessful attempt to correct the equivocation but alas querulous and truculent are often attended by stubbornness. At this point, why bother? It may be time to abandon hope of a rational discussion about Essential Doctrine having nothing to do with CANON, or view of sanctification, or view of end times. Your patience outshines my own. I just like to have fun with it. I have a breaking point. It's why I left that southern gospel band about two years ago. I could no longer continue to listen to the preaching I was hearing from those $30 a month preachers that didn't actually prepare their sermons. I finally said something in a hot mic. It wasn't much, and it was quite biblical, but it caused concern and I told the band leader it was only the beginning and it was probably best that I leave the band. And that was my last gig with them, but we are still friends. And I was with the band for two years. BTW, what I said was, "Folks, eternity is not about where you are going, heaven or hell. It's about whether or not you are saved from death. (I then quoted John 3:16 and Romans 6:23). Eternity is not about geography. It is about condition." Edited December 7, 2018 by Still Alive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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