Those Days Will Be Shortened

[iamlamad]

On 5/4/2019 at 11:47 PM, childoftheking said:

 

Do you ever take words and study them by their original language?   I've notice you did not do that in Daniel 70x(sevens (7)) for the Hebrew meaning.   And clearly you are not doing that for Yeshua in the Greek or Aramaic concerning the difference between heaven - sky

 

παράδεισος = heaven

ουρανός = sky

 

EVERY GREEK TEXT EVER WRITTEN USES THE WORD THAT MEANS "SKY!!"

Greek Texts

ΚΑΤΑ ΜΑΤΘΑΙΟΝ 24:31 Greek NT: Nestle 1904
καὶ ἀποστελεῖ τοὺς ἀγγέλους αὐτοῦ μετὰ σάλπιγγος μεγάλης, καὶ ἐπισυνάξουσιν τοὺς ἐκλεκτοὺς αὐτοῦ ἐκ τῶν τεσσάρων ἀνέμων ἀπ’ ἄκρων οὐρανῶν ἕως ἄκρων αὐτῶν.

ΚΑΤΑ ΜΑΤΘΑΙΟΝ 24:31 Greek NT: Westcott and Hort 1881
καὶ ἀποστελεῖ τοὺς ἀγγέλους αὐτοῦ μετὰ σάλπιγγος μεγάλης, καὶ ἐπισυνάξουσιν τοὺς ἐκλεκτοὺς αὐτοῦ ἐκ τῶν τεσσάρων ἀνέμων ἀπ' ἄκρων οὐρανῶν ἕως τῶν ἄκρων αὐτῶν.

ΚΑΤΑ ΜΑΤΘΑΙΟΝ 24:31 Greek NT: Westcott and Hort / [NA27 and UBS4 variants]
καὶ ἀποστελεῖ τοὺς ἀγγέλους αὐτοῦ μετὰ σάλπιγγος μεγάλης, καὶ ἐπισυνάξουσιν τοὺς ἐκλεκτοὺς αὐτοῦ ἐκ τῶν τεσσάρων ἀνέμων ἀπ' ἄκρων οὐρανῶν ἕως τῶν ἄκρων αὐτῶν.

ΚΑΤΑ ΜΑΤΘΑΙΟΝ 24:31 Greek NT: RP Byzantine Majority Text 2005
Καὶ ἀποστελεῖ τοὺς ἀγγέλους αὐτοῦ μετὰ σάλπιγγος φωνῆς μεγάλης, καὶ ἐπισυνάξουσιν τοὺς ἐκλεκτοὺς αὐτοῦ ἐκ τῶν τεσσάρων ἀνέμων, ἀπ’ ἄκρων οὐρανῶν ἕως ἄκρων αὐτῶν.

ΚΑΤΑ ΜΑΤΘΑΙΟΝ 24:31 Greek NT: Greek Orthodox Church
καὶ ἀποστελεῖ τοὺς ἀγγέλους αὐτοῦ μετὰ σάλπιγγος φωνῆς μεγάλης, καὶ ἐπισυνάξουσι τοὺς ἐκλεκτοὺς αὐτοῦ ἐκ τῶν τεσσάρων ἀνέμων ἀπ’ ἄκρων οὐρανῶν ἕως ἄκρων αὐτῶν.

ΚΑΤΑ ΜΑΤΘΑΙΟΝ 24:31 Greek NT: Tischendorf 8th Edition
καὶ ἀποστελεῖ τοὺς ἀγγέλους αὐτοῦ μετὰ σάλπιγγος μεγάλης, καὶ ἐπισυνάξουσιν τοὺς ἐκλεκτοὺς αὐτοῦ ἐκ τῶν τεσσάρων ἀνέμων ἀπ’ ἄκρων οὐρανῶν ἕως ἄκρων αὐτῶν.

ΚΑΤΑ ΜΑΤΘΑΙΟΝ 24:31 Greek NT: Scrivener's Textus Receptus 1894
καὶ ἀποστελεῖ τοὺς ἀγγέλους αὐτοῦ μετὰ σάλπιγγος φωνῆς μεγάλης, καὶ ἐπισυνάξουσι τοὺς ἐκλεκτοὺς αὐτοῦ ἐκ τῶν τεσσάρων ἀνέμων, ἀπ’ ἄκρων οὐρανῶν ἕως ἄκρων αὐτῶν.

ΚΑΤΑ ΜΑΤΘΑΙΟΝ 24:31 Greek NT: Stephanus Textus Receptus 1550
καὶ ἀποστελεῖ τοὺς ἀγγέλους αὐτοῦ μετὰ σάλπιγγος φωνῆς μεγάλης καὶ ἐπισυνάξουσιν τοὺς ἐκλεκτοὺς αὐτοῦ ἐκ τῶν τεσσάρων ἀνέμων ἀπ' ἄκρων οὐρανῶν ἕως ἄκρων αὐτῶν

Matthew 24:31 Greek Study Bible (Apostolic / Interlinear)

καὶ ἀποστελεῖ τοὺς ἀγγέλους αὐτοῦ μετὰ σάλπιγγος μεγάλης, καὶ ἐπισυνάξουσιν τοὺς ἐκλεκτοὺς αὐτοῦ ἐκ τῶντεσσάρων ἀνέμων ἀπ’ ἄκρων οὐρανῶν ἕως τῶν ἄκρων αὐτῶν.

KJV with Strong's 
And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds fromone end of heaven to the other __

 

You should stop assuming your ENGLISH BIBLE is accurately translated.   If you knew the Hebrew and Greek, you would have stopped this foolishness a long time ago.   Which is another indicator that GOD DID NOT SPEAK TO YOU concerning Pre-Trib!!

Again, you imagine I am "assuming" simply because I will not agree with your theories. I consider them false. 

Do you imagine God speaks to us today in GREEK? How funny!  No, God speaks to believers in their OWN language.

I suggest you camp out on the sister verse in Mark for a month or two until you get it. That gathering that will come after the tribulation of those days will gather from ALL OVER heaven and ALL OVER earth. It cannot be Paul's rapture. 

It seems you just can't or won't believe God is big enough to have more than one gathering!

[iamlamad]

On 5/4/2019 at 11:35 PM, childoftheking said:

 

I believe that you are genuine and 100% sincere in thinking that you heard from God.  But I don't believe on the issue of Pre-Trib, that you did hear from God... knowing that God Himself made it clear in Matthew 24, what the chain of events will be, including the Elect will be in the Tribulation and gathered at the very end of it.

Preconceived glasses can become very thick: so thick that one cannot read a verse as it is written. Every verse MUST fit the preconceptions.  I will agree, it is VERY CLEAR there will be a gathering after the days of GT. But you begin to assume when you imagine that is Paul's gathering. It cannot be. 

What you are missing: After a few years when Israel as a nation did not accept Jesus as their Messiah, God chose a new path: He put blindness on the Jews and sent Paul to the Gentiles to raise up a people who WOULD believe in Jesus. We call it the Gentile church. The Jewish church that started in Jerusalem DIED OUT. The truth is, the time of the Gentile church is as a PARENTHESIS inserted in Daniel's time gap as written in 9:26 and 27. If one pulls a parenthesis out of a text, it reads as if the parenthesis was never there. The moment of the pretrib rapture, TIME goes right back to before God sent Paul to the Gentiles: God will then FINISH UP the Jewish 70th week of Daniel. 

How can you possibly imagine Daniel wrote "70 weeks are determined upon PAUL's People and the cities of the world...???"

WAKE UP! The 70th week is for DANIEL'S people.

WAKE UP! Revelation is about this 70th week: from chapter 8 to chapter 16 is Daniel's 70th week from start to finish. How could ANYONE read in Daniel about the time, times and half of time, then in Revelation read the same plus 1260 days and 1260 days and 42 months and 42 months and then imagine it is NOT about the 70th week? How many proof texts would you need? Five in Revelation is not enough?

Yes, God WILL have a gathering after the trib - but it is NOT Paul's gathering.

[iamlamad]

On 5/4/2019 at 11:31 PM, childoftheking said:

I love how you specify one word to make an argument over.   

37But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

38For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

39And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

These verse are conclusive of how people were and acting before the flood came.   And even though the Tribulation will be difficult for sinners, they won't know when it ends, why the sun darkens, the moon fails, the stars fall, and especially when Yeshua shall return.

But the Elect do, they will know when Tribulation ends because the sun darkens, the moon fails, the stars fall and soon after Yeshua will return!!

HOW were they acting? Jesus is just telling is they were LIVING LIFE as people do, day after day, day after day, thinking tomorrow will be just like yesterday. "FOR" gives us the clue as to why Jesus brought up Noah: the key words, since you missed them, are "AND KNEW NOT until the flood came..." His point then is the SUDDENNESS of their destruction. They woke up that morning thinking that day would be just like yesterday - until the flood came and they all drowned. He makes the very same point with Lot: the suddenness of their destruction. 

It will be the same when Jesus comes: DEATH will come to many, SUDDENLY.

But none of these verses given even a HINT of a post-trib rapture of the church. That is your imagination.

Please tell us all HOW you plan on getting to the marriage? 

Edited May 6, 2019 by iamlamad

[iamlamad]

On 5/4/2019 at 11:21 PM, childoftheking said:

 

Yeshua told the Disciples in the Upper Room he would not drink of the vine until they were with him in Paradise.   We know in Spirit when we die, we are with God immediately, but in BODY, that is not until the Second Advent which comes after the Tribulation ends.   The marriage will take place then.

Wrong again. Can you just not follow what is written? Rev. 19:

⁶ And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.

⁷ Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

⁸ And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

⁹ And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

¹⁰ And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

¹¹ And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

John is still in heaven. He heard this great multitude in heaven. He hears the words that the marriage of the Lamb is come. John wrote what he heard and saw in heaven. That is how we know what he saw and heard. 

After the time for the marriage came, then it was the time for the supper. Note carefully: the time for the marriage supper CANNOT COME until the marriage is completed! 

What this is telling us is that the marriage and supper will take place IN HEAVEN before Jesus descends. False theories show up when texts must be rearranged to fit. 

Always remember, ANY theory that must rearrange John's God given chronology is immediately suspect, and WILL BE proven wrong.

A post-trib theory must rearrange what is written to make it work. Your theory will be proven wrong.

WHO comes to the sheep and goat judgment? I think it is clear, all who are left alive in natural bodies on earth. WHEN is the sheep and goat judgment? I think it is clear: right after the battle of Armageddon. .

The post-trib theory then ROBS this judgment of any sheep: all the sheep will have received their resurrection bodies. there would be not sheep left in natural bodies. 

The truth is, the post-trib rapture doctrine is false.

[Montana Marv]

19 hours ago, childoftheking said:

How am I robbing God?

The question is do you rob God? or how do many believers rob God?  In Tithes and Offerings (Mal 3:6-12)  Do other Believers assemble each other, if not they also go against Scripture.  Some Believers who seem to talk with authority, neglect these two simple truths, they rob God, and they are not accountable to other Believers.  If this is the case, can we believe these some who think they talk with authority.  Bonkers.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[childoftheking]

2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Sorry, but you are STILL WRONG. The SAME Greek word is also in these verses:

Mat 3:17  And lo a voice from heaven, ^G3772 saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Mat 5:3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. ^G3772

Mat 5:34  But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; ^G3772 for it is God's throne:

Mat 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: ^G3772 for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

In other words, it CAN mean the air, but the SAME WORD means the heaven where God lives.

This Greek word,ouranos, was translated as follows in the KJV:
 heaven (268x), air (10x), sky (5x), heavenly (with G1537) (1x).

Why not just believe it as written? If it meant the air we breath, then it seems silly that Luke wrote it thus: 

Mark 13:27

And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

 

The truth is, this passage is simply not talking about Paul's rapture. you might as well face it: you are mistaken.

 

It's not the same word, though:

 

Matt 24:31 

οὐρανῶν = of the sky

 

Matt 3:17

οὐρανῶν = of the sky

 

Matt 5:3

ouranō = of paradise

 

Matt 5:34

ouranō = of paradise

 

Matt 5:45

οὐρανοῖς = multiple paradises

 

Mark 13:27

οὐρανοῦ = of the sky

 

You can even tell by the spelling of each word there is a subtle change or meaning to it.   But No, they are ABSOLUTELY NOT the same word or meaning at all!!

[childoftheking]

2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

I think you should consult Strong's. You are mistaken still.

 

 

I use Young's like most Seminary's.   I also use Dakes.   Strong's is still based off the 1611 Bible (olde English)

[childoftheking]

2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Again, you imagine I am "assuming" simply because I will not agree with your theories. I consider them false. 

Do you imagine God speaks to us today in GREEK? How funny!  No, God speaks to believers in their OWN language.

I suggest you camp out on the sister verse in Mark for a month or two until you get it. That gathering that will come after the tribulation of those days will gather from ALL OVER heaven and ALL OVER earth. It cannot be Paul's rapture. 

It seems you just can't or won't believe God is big enough to have more than one gathering!

 

Yeshua spoke Aramaic/Hebrew.   That was evident when he healed the young girl, when He cried out quoting Psalms on the Cross.   But no, God speaks to me in my native language, like He does to everyone of other languages.

 

I suggest you use a real translation of the Hebrew to see where Yeshua, Paul, and John were actually speaking from.   These prophecies were originally spoken by several prophets before we see them in the New Testament.   And the Hebrew meanings are opposite, of what you claim, since you are going strictly off the New Testament Greek!!

 

You need to consult a Messianic Jew, who knows these scriptures, better than you know the mistranslated English version.

Edited May 6, 2019 by childoftheking

[childoftheking]

2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Preconceived glasses can become very thick: so thick that one cannot read a verse as it is written. Every verse MUST fit the preconceptions.  I will agree, it is VERY CLEAR there will be a gathering after the days of GT. But you begin to assume when you imagine that is Paul's gathering. It cannot be. 

What you are missing: After a few years when Israel as a nation did not accept Jesus as their Messiah, God chose a new path: He put blindness on the Jews and sent Paul to the Gentiles to raise up a people who WOULD believe in Jesus. We call it the Gentile church. The Jewish church that started in Jerusalem DIED OUT. The truth is, the time of the Gentile church is as a PARENTHESIS inserted in Daniel's time gap as written in 9:26 and 27. If one pulls a parenthesis out of a text, it reads as if the parenthesis was never there. The moment of the pretrib rapture, TIME goes right back to before God sent Paul to the Gentiles: God will then FINISH UP the Jewish 70th week of Daniel. 

How can you possibly imagine Daniel wrote "70 weeks are determined upon PAUL's People and the cities of the world...???"

WAKE UP! The 70th week is for DANIEL'S people.

WAKE UP! Revelation is about this 70th week: from chapter 8 to chapter 16 is Daniel's 70th week from start to finish. How could ANYONE read in Daniel about the time, times and half of time, then in Revelation read the same plus 1260 days and 1260 days and 42 months and 42 months and then imagine it is NOT about the 70th week? How many proof texts would you need? Five in Revelation is not enough?

Yes, God WILL have a gathering after the trib - but it is NOT Paul's gathering.

 

I have no preconceptions...I am here to LEARN.   I will be the first to proclaim, I am only a STUDENT of the Word of God.   But there are those, who actually understand better, than you want to acknowledge.  And your premises is that God told you.   Well that cannot be when the prophets wrote otherwise and they align with what Yeshua proclaimed in Matthew 24.   This "End Time" topic has been around way longer than 2,000 years, we see where even Moses mentions it 4,250 years ago.   You really need to research the Hebrew, that is where the TRUTH actually can be found!!

Edited May 6, 2019 by childoftheking

[childoftheking]

2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

HOW were they acting? Jesus is just telling is they were LIVING LIFE as people do, day after day, day after day, thinking tomorrow will be just like yesterday. "FOR" gives us the clue as to why Jesus brought up Noah: the key words, since you missed them, are "AND KNEW NOT until the flood came..." His point then is the SUDDENNESS of their destruction. They woke up that morning thinking that day would be just like yesterday - until the flood came and they all drowned. He makes the very same point with Lot: the suddenness of their destruction. 

It will be the same when Jesus comes: DEATH will come to many, SUDDENLY.

But none of these verses given even a HINT of a post-trib rapture of the church. That is your imagination.

Please tell us all HOW you plan on getting to the marriage? 

 

Your first mistake is believing Tribulation means WRATH!!

You refuse to consult an actual Messianic Jew, on the bases you toss out the "God told me theory."  Every Jew knows the WRATH of God begins at Armageddon and Ends at final Judgement to the Lake of Fire.   You just obviously hate facts!!