Those Days Will Be Shortened

[iamlamad]

5 hours ago, childoftheking said:

Yeah, and you clearly have no idea what WRATH of God is:

I've provided scripture proving it's Armageddon and final Judgement (Lake of Fire).

Your memory is shot.   One has to answer the same question by you continuously.  You must have Dementia or the beginnings of Alzheimer's.   No wonder you believe you heard from God, your mind is in several stages of changing that has no relation to reality at all!!

Readers take careful note here: WHO is descending to the battle of Armageddon? Is it the Father? Or perhaps it is the SON? Of course we know it is THE SON. Is the SON angry as He descends? I will give any reader the benefit of doubt here: without any doubt the SON Has wrath at the battle. HOWEVER, where do we find the Father's wrath? If we back up from Armageddon, we find His wrath in the vials:

Revelation 15:1

And I saw another sign in Heaven, great and marvelous: seven angels holding the seven last plagues, for in them is filled up the wrath of God.

 

We find then that the author of this post really does not know where God's wrath begins. Can we find His wrath before the vials are poured out? Yes, our Father has wrath in Rev. 14:

 

Revelation 14:19

And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great wine press of the wrath of God.

 

Can we find His wrath before this? Yes.

 

Revelation 11:18

And the nations were angry; and Thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that Thou shouldest give reward unto Thy servants the prophets, and to the saints and them that fear Thy name, small and great, and shouldest destroy them that destroy the earth.”

 

Wow! We find God has wrath in chapter 11, around the midpoint of the 70th week.

 

Revelation 6:16

and they said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us, and hide us from the face of Him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb!

 

Revelation 6:17

For the great Day of His wrath is come, and who shall be able to stand?”

 

WOW! We see then that both the Father AND THE SON have wrath in Rev. chapter 6, before the week begins!

 

Readers: what have we seen by examining the scriptures? We find that the writer of this post has no idea where God's wrath begins. The writer has chosen to ignore what is really written in scripture and substitute his or her own human reasoning outside of scripture - then accuse others of not following scripture! Amazing. Simply amazing.  

 

It seems then, this writer proved to HIMSELF what God's wrath begins at Armageddon. Meanwhile the scripture show God's wrath starts before the week starts!

Edited May 12, 2019 by iamlamad

[iamlamad]

5 hours ago, childoftheking said:

In the scope of things, 1 out of every 1,000 people of the current 8 billion people profess to be a believer.   This can be applied to everyone who already lived and died.   So the dead in Christ currently no longer among the living is be FAR LESS in numbers than those who profess to be a believer TODAY.

So, maybe you should understand many more things before trying to make a conclusion.

Revelations 7 John asked the Angel, who are these people?   They were a multitude of people from every nation, creed, tongue, kin, language too big for John to count.  The Angel replied, these SURVIVED the Tribulation.   So, there will be more ELECT surviving Tribulation than there were ELECT that had already lived and died.

The problem with most people, they get a scripture, they apply that scripture, but they never consider the facts going into this process.

Statistics state 7 billion people died in the Flood and 8 people survived (Noah):

That same percentage or like % can be applied in humanity throughout the ages.   For every one believer, there has always be 1,000++ non believers.  So, the Dead in  Christ is not as great of a number as those professing to be Christian Today!!   And not everyone professing to be Christian actually are a true believer!!

It seems this writer  must apply his or her own reasoning when trying to quote a scripture. It is not written in chapter 7 that anyone "survived" the tribulation. What is written is that these came out of great tribulation. When the rapture takes place, could we say that people "came out" of the earth? Of course we could! 

But what is John telling us? At this point in time, in the visions given to John, God has not shown John the START of "the tribulation."  Seals 1 through 5 are church age, and seal 6 is the very beginning of God's wrath poured out. No beast has been revealed, not false prophet has been seen, the image is not yet created, the mark has not yet been created. No, for sure these did not come out of any future time. John is telling us that at the time of the rapture, GOD calls the ending of the church age "great tribulation."  These are CERTAINLY not the days of GT that Jesus spoke of, for He said they would not begin until after the abomination that divides the week - and John has not yet even started the week.  In other words, this great crowd, TOO LARGE to number, cannot in any way be a part of "the tribulation" that Jesus spoke of, that will begin in the last half of the week. Neither is there ANY HINT that these are martyrs. 

This is a scripture that takes understanding: when people are being killed for their love for Jesus, it IS great tribulation for them. It cannot get any greater! They cannot be killed again and again! 

Now lets talk of numbers: How many believers have died? Let's just take the last generation: all the believers that died in the last 40 years or so: how many?  32.8% of the world today call themselves Christian. That would be about 2.4 billion out of 7 billion. of these, perhaps 1 billion are truly born again - so about 1/7 of the world population.  

It is estimated that 65 billion have lived since AD 1. If we just take 5% of that, we have 3 billion people!   Today it may be 10% which would be 6 billion! Again, the raptured church, plus all the children, is going to be a very very large number - TOO large to count. 

How many will be martyed during  the coming days of great tribulation? Will it be nearly half of the population? I doubt it! Therefore I find this author's post preposterous at best. The entire body of believers who have lived since Jesus resurrection will certainly be a crowd too large to number. How long would it take to count 3 billion? It would take over 30 years just to count to ONE billion! Readers, let's just believe John when he tells us it is a crowd too large to number! The number of those raptured will be FAR FAR more than the number of martyrs since Jesus time.

Readers, always remember, the number of believers who are NOT martyred has always been larger than those who ARE martyred. 

Edited May 12, 2019 by iamlamad

[childoftheking]

3 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

And no need for the Bride to go into the G.T. They all have the same opportunities. Yet something new comes about.

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

 

There was no need for Noah to go through the Flood, for Isaiah to be cut in half by a WOODEN SAW, for John the Baptist to be beheaded, etc..

Even God Himself was beaten and crucified,

 

Have you actually ever suffered for Christ as an American?

 

God is conclusive in that He seems to enjoy our suffering for Him!!

[childoftheking]

1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

Just to set the record straight, I have never met John Darby, nor read anything he wrote. I did not get my beliefs from books either. The truth is, pretrib is right there in scripture for anyone to read and understand. The problem is, preconceived glasses prevent people from understanding the intent of the Author. 

It very easy to read of the great crowd, too large to number. Anyone that can read can read about this great crowd. Why is it so large? It is simple, it is somewhere around 50 generations of believers from around the world: all who have believed since Jesus rose from the dead. It is going to be a HUGE crowd, in the billions. Plus, add to that all the children alive at the time of the rapture. 

The posttribbers must imagine John wrote about this great crowd, just raptured to heaven, is in Rev. 19 where Jesus returns. No, John saw the crowd in heaven before he saw the start of the 70th week or "the tribulation" as some wish to call it. Was this an idea created by man? I guess we could say John created it, but in truth, John was backed by the Holy Spirit - in other words, a pretrib rapture is a GOD thing.

 

I agree that the SAME SCRIPTURES explaining the Second Coming can be skewed into thinking it could be a rapture.   But NOWHERE is it obvious Yeshua returns TWICE within 7 years!!

[childoftheking]

1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

I hope you know, there is simply NO HINT of timing in 1 Thes. chapter 4 as far as the rapture is concerned - but Paul did not quit in chapter 4; he continued on into chapter 5, where Paul DOES get into the timing.  However, you don't understand chapter 5 so there is no need to go there.

 

I hope YOU KNOW there are letters from the the Church in Thess asking about loved dead ones and Paul answers them.

And you FALSEY TURNED it into a Pre-Trib setting!!

[childoftheking]

1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

Hmmm. Ever heard of the English word, "gay?" How many meanings might one find in a dictionary today? 

This is so simple, it is amazing you stumble over it: there will be only TWO resurrections: and indeed, since them come over a thousand years apart, one dies come first. But the first you read in English translations does not mean first in sequence, but first in priority. Why? It is the resurrection for the righteous.  You will not understand, so no need to go further. 

Question: WHICH of the two resurrections mentioned would Jesus' resurrection be a part of?

 

I am only pointing out, the SAME SCRIPTURES believed to be the Second Coming, has suddenly been skewed into this False Pre-Trib rapture.

[childoftheking]

1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

Now you are bringing up a straw man? Why? Only to tear him down and look important? How can any event that has a loud shout, a loud trumpet and voices be called "secret?"  The truth? This word was probably created by posttribbers. The truth is, the pretrib rapture will be NOISY. And it will not be a secret. Millions of people around the word are going to suddenly be looking for loved ones that just disappeared. Add to the previous sounds the sound of MUCH weeping.  Then there are going to be some banging their heads against walls wondering why they are left behind. That too will make noise.  Nope! The pretrib rapture will NOT be a secret! however, it will be SUDDEN and without any warning. 

The fact still remains, Paul wrote that his rapture will come a moment before God's wrath begins. Posttribbers have to rewrite Revelation to make their theory fit: because John shows us the wrath of God, as in the Day of His wrath, begins before the 70th week begins. I understand, some people are confused about the 70th week being future, so I will say it this way: John shows us that the Day of His wrath begins before the tribulation Jesus spoke of will begin.  That is a fact. 

It is also a fact that the great crowd, too large to number, is found in chapter 7, not chapter 19 or 20. It is also a fact that the TIMING of the marriage is supper is before Jesus descends to the battle of Armageddon.. Therefore posttribbers must REWRITE Revelation to fit their theory. OF COURSE they never mention such things. 

It is also a fact that is posttrib were true, there would be NO SHEEP at the sheep and goat judgment. Why? Because the rapture would turn all the saints into resurrected saints with resurrection bodies - so no sheep left in natural bodies. Therefore, the posttrib theory ROBS the millennial reign of any saints in natural bodies to repopulate the earth.  Yet, they swear it is scriptural!

Readers, it is very true that Jesus will come after the days of tribulation, but at that coming the church will be coming WITH HIM - AFTER the marriage and supper which will take place in heaven. 

Luke 12:36

and ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord when he will return from the wedding, that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately.

 

WHERE is He returning FROM? The wedding. He hopes people will be waiting for Him.  Note carefully that the wedding PRECEDES His coming. 

 

No Strawman, just what you have done, by using scriptures specifying the Second Coming and turning them into a False Pre-Trib rapture.

[childoftheking]

1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

You still don't seem to know WHO these "elect" are. Neither do you seem to care where they are gathered from. 

 

ἐκλεκτοὺς = the Elect = elect, chosen

It's a predestined term.

Just like God knew you would believe in Him before you ever were born, you are predestined.

So the Elect is a predestined term for BELIEVERS.

The Jews majorly do not accept Yeshua, but the Gentiles do.

The Jews won't believe until midpoint.

 

What's interesting, Pre-Tribbers believe the Holy Ghost leaves when they leave.

Yet, the TWO WITNESSES for first 3 1/2 years will have great power, will die and then come back alive for a period of time before being caught up themselves.   Their power is the Holy Spirit!!

 

So, not only will the Holy Spirit be present during Tribulation, but so will us BELIEVERS!!

Edited May 13, 2019 by childoftheking

[childoftheking]

1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

Readers take careful note here: WHO is descending to the battle of Armageddon? Is it the Father? Or perhaps it is the SON? Of course we know it is THE SON. Is the SON angry as He descends? I will give any reader the benefit of doubt here: without any doubt the SON Has wrath at the battle. HOWEVER, where do we find the Father's wrath? If we back up from Armageddon, we find His wrath in the vials:

Revelation 15:1

And I saw another sign in Heaven, great and marvelous: seven angels holding the seven last plagues, for in them is filled up the wrath of God.

 

We find then that the author of this post really does not know where God's wrath begins. Can we find His wrath before the vials are poured out? Yes, our Father has wrath in Rev. 14:

 

Revelation 14:19

And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great wine press of the wrath of God.

 

Can we find His wrath before this? Yes.

 

Revelation 11:18

And the nations were angry; and Thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that Thou shouldest give reward unto Thy servants the prophets, and to the saints and them that fear Thy name, small and great, and shouldest destroy them that destroy the earth.”

 

Wow! We find God has wrath in chapter 11, around the midpoint of the 70th week.

 

Revelation 6:16

and they said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us, and hide us from the face of Him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb!

 

Revelation 6:17

For the great Day of His wrath is come, and who shall be able to stand?”

 

WOW! We see then that both the Father AND THE SON have wrath in Rev. chapter 6, before the week begins!

 

Readers: what have we seen by examining the scriptures? We find that the writer of this post has no idea where God's wrath begins. The writer has chosen to ignore what is really written in scripture and substitute his or her own human reasoning outside of scripture - then accuse others of not following scripture! Amazing. Simply amazing.  

 

It seems then, this writer proved to HIMSELF what God's wrath begins at Armageddon. Meanwhile the scripture show God's wrath starts before the week starts!

 

Now you are just taking scripture with WRATH in it to create a mythical scenario...

[childoftheking]

52 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

It seems this writer  must apply his or her own reasoning when trying to quote a scripture. It is not written in chapter 7 that anyone "survived" the tribulation. What is written is that these came out of great tribulation. When the rapture takes place, could we say that people "came out" of the earth? Of course we could! 

But what is John telling us? At this point in time, in the visions given to John, God has not shown John the START of "the tribulation."  Seals 1 through 5 are church age, and seal 6 is the very beginning of God's wrath poured out. No beast has been revealed, not false prophet has been seen, the image is not yet created, the mark has not yet been created. No, for sure these did not come out of any future time. John is telling us that at the time of the rapture, GOD calls the ending of the church age "great tribulation."  These are CERTAINLY not the days of GT that Jesus spoke of, for He said they would not begin until after the abomination that divides the week - and John has not yet even started the week.  In other words, this great crowd, TOO LARGE to number, cannot in any way be a part of "the tribulation" that Jesus spoke of, that will begin in the last half of the week. Neither is there ANY HINT that these are martyrs. 

This is a scripture that takes understanding: when people are being killed for their love for Jesus, it IS great tribulation for them. It cannot get any greater! They cannot be killed again and again! 

Now lets talk of numbers: How many believers have died? Let's just take the last generation: all the believers that died in the last 40 years or so: how many?  32.8% of the world today call themselves Christian. That would be about 2.4 billion out of 7 billion. of these, perhaps 1 billion are truly born again - so about 1/7 of the world population.  

It is estimated that 65 billion have lived since AD 1. If we just take 5% of that, we have 3 billion people!   Today it may be 10% which would be 6 billion! Again, the raptured church, plus all the children, is going to be a very very large number - TOO large to count. 

How many will be martyed during  the coming days of great tribulation? Will it be nearly half of the population? I doubt it! Therefore I find this author's post preposterous at best. The entire body of believers who have lived since Jesus resurrection will certainly be a crowd too large to number. How long would it take to count 3 billion? It would take over 30 years just to count to ONE billion! Readers, let's just believe John when he tells us it is a crowd too large to number! The number of those raptured will be FAR FAR more than the number of martyrs since Jesus time.

Readers, always remember, the number of believers who are NOT martyred has always been larger than those who ARE martyred. 

 

Interesting, you claim God has not shown the beginning of Tribulation, yet, the Angel specifies the great multitude COMES FROM TRIBULATION and then in chapter 20 we find the beheaded's (much much much smaller number).

 

Can you twist this any more for your False View?

Edited May 13, 2019 by childoftheking