Calculations about the New Jerusalem

[Retrobyter]

11 hours ago, JohnR7 said:

We have already seen this in California. So the prophecy has already been 1 Corinthians 6:18.

Shalom, JohnR7.

With all due respect, you are saying things that are nonsense. 1 Corinthians 6:18 is talking about how every sin affects someone else, but that fornication is a sin against one's own body. It's true! California, particularly the Hollywood scene and the political scene and the media, are HEAVILY into fornication! (Hence the title of the show I'll never watch,"Californication.") And yet, they wonder why they are so susceptible to HIV, AIDS, and other STDs when they DIRECTLY DISOBEY GOD'S COMMANDS!

So, yes indeed! While not all Californians are guilty of such sins, the FEW, the ARROGANT, the POPULAR, and the WEALTHY ARE guilty! But, they think of themselves as "sophisticated" and "enlightened" and very irresponsibly "above being religious" and "not answerable" even to GOD ALMIGHTY!

Sorry for ranting, but this is a VERY touchy subject, especially after the election fiasco!

11 hours ago, JohnR7 said:

Heaven is mostly spiritual. We will not have our physical body in Heaven. Our physical body returns to the earth until the resurrection at the end of the 1,000 year reign of Christ. 

And, this is what I mean by "nonsense!" The word "heaven" in the Scriptures is usually talking about this earth's ATMOSPHERE, particularly the air we breathe, the birds that fly within it, and the clouds and weather that appear within it.

And, there's that word "spiritual" again. The word "spiritual" comes from the Greek word "pneumatikos," which is an adjective form of "pneuma." The word has to do with the WIND and the air pressures and differentials between them that determine the FORCE and SPEED of that wind! So, when you said, "Heaven is mostly spiritual," you've actually said, "The sky is mostly windy!"

When you said, "We will not have our physical body in Heaven," you've said, "We will not have our physical body in the SKY!" I should hope not, at least not without an airplane or helicopter or at the very least a PARACHUTE!

We used to sing a song when I was in Bible college that I would often laugh at singing:

"But just think of stepping on shore, and finding it ...

h
e
a
v
e
n
n
n
n
.
.
.
!
!
!

(Look out below!) I even drew a picture of a man tumbling out of a plane!

When you said, "Our physical body returns to the earth until the resurrection at the end of the 1,000 year reign of Christ," you're just wrong. First of all, the resurrection of the justified is at the BEGINNING of the Millennium, not at the end. Second, how are we to "reign with Christ," AFTER He's already reigned for a THOUSAND YEARS?!

While it is true that our physical body (the real US) returns to the earth AFTER WE DIE, we are RESURRECTED at the beginning of the Millennium and we join Him in His reign over this earth!

11 hours ago, JohnR7 said:

It could be we could have a nuclear war. That as been a consideration for well over 50 years now. It could be only a remnant or 10% of the population would survive to repopulate the earth. Even as recent as 12,000 years ago there was an extinction and only 10% of the population made the transition.

More nonsense. You can't believe everything that "science" (falsely so-called) teaches you! There's MUCH more evidence of a young earth than an old one. Furthermore, you have a great "think tank" right there in Santee, California, that you should be asking, the Institute for Creation Research. According to the Scriptures, there WAS NO population 12,000 years ago! God CREATED mankind from the dust of the ground later than that!

11 hours ago, JohnR7 said:

As a general rule first we look at the literal and then we look at the symbolic and numerical to see what the meaning is for us today in our generation.  Even there are rules for Bible interpretation that we learn in Bible College. 

What Bible College could possibly fail to teach CREATION?! (Don't answer that; we shouldn't embarrass them publicly.)

The REAL value of Scripture is NOT for application today! It's good to apply sensible character and biblical wisdom to our lives, but the PRIMARY reason for the Scriptures is to HONOR GOD! We do this by learning the history that is found in the Scriptures and learning how God is most honored! We learn what God likes and what He hates; we adhere to what God likes and we ABHOR what He hates!

[JohnR7]

16 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

With all due respect, you are saying things that are nonsense.

I am sorry you do not understand but with your negative attitude I am not going to waste my time trying to explain the truth to you. Someday you will understand, maybe when you get to Heaven when all shall be revealed. 

[JohnR7]

16 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

fornication is a sin against one's own body.

Fornication in the Greek is Porna. We get the word porn from this greek word. It means harlot - whore or prostitute. 

 

16 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

"Heaven is mostly spiritual," you've actually said, "The sky is mostly windy!"

I am talking about the Heaven we go to when we die. I am in contact with Heaven all the time. We do not take our physical body with us when we die. Our spiritual body and our physical body will be joined back together at the resurrection. Jesus taught us to pay "Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven". 

In Genesis we read about the breath of life. Although there is a breath of life for man and there is a different word in the Hebrew for the life God breathed into the Animals in Eden. Noah saved the animals that had the breath of life in them. Those are the animals that were on the Ark. Science would call them domesticated animals. 

[JohnR7]

On 2/18/2021 at 5:48 AM, Retrobyter said:

ANOTHER good reason for me to HATE that word "spiritual!" "The fire is spiritual?" The fire is a windy fire? What does that even mean?!

First the Bible is literal, then symbolic and numeric. Often they use the word allegory or archetype or the modern term is paradigm. Jesus tells us: "He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire" (Matthew 3:11) 

When I first got saved I was on fire for God. He was cleansing me of a lot of stuff. Zecharia talks about how God is going to bring 1/3 through the fire. What do you think this means? Do you think this is a literal fire that God is going to bring the people through? 

I will bring the one-third through the fire, Will refine them as silver is refined, And test them as gold is tested". (Zecharia 13:9)

 

[JohnR7]

11 minutes ago, Chicken coop2 said:

More information about this would be nice. 

I can tell lots of stories. If you do not think they are true that is fine, consider them fiction or whatever you want. When my son died at 40 he had been homeless for quite a while. So I prayed and I asked what sort of mansion does my son have in Heaven. They would not tell me so I insisted on them telling me something. So they said that in his backyard he has a skate park that is about the size of a skate park that a city would build. My son liked to skate board and we even built some ramps and things for him to use for that. Then one day I heard something about Tony Hawk. So I asked my son: "do you remember Tony Hawk". He laughed and said there was a BIG Tony Hawk skate park in Heaven and Tony has lots of fans there. 

So this is an example of the sort of things I experience. If you think it is my imagination that is fine. Half the books in the library are fiction and they still have value. Even my other son took a college level class in understanding literature. 

When he was still alive he was living in Alaska in a tent. He told me one day that they did not clean up their hot dogs and a bear shredded the tent to eat the hot dogs. I thought it was a scam to try to get me to give him money for a new tent to buy drugs. Later on one of his AA sponsors told me it was a true story. A bear really did shred his tent.

I keep my experience on an earthy level. I do not want to learn about the things in Heaven that people on Earth can not identify with. This is what people encounter when they first get to Heaven then they go to school - learn and grow from there. 

[Retrobyter]

6 hours ago, JohnR7 said:

I am sorry you do not understand but with your negative attitude I am not going to waste my time trying to explain the truth to you. Someday you will understand, maybe when you get to Heaven when all shall be revealed. 

Shabbat shalom, JohnR7.

No negative attitude here! I'm trying to get you to understand that WE'VE BEEN LIED TO for several centuries! There's NO "Heaven" to which one goes after he or she dies. That's been ADDED to the individual philosophies of theology that stem from Greek mythology. And, they were added VERY soon after the Messiah Yeshua`s Resurrection and Ascension. He's the ONLY ONE who has ascended to the "above-the-heavens" or "above-the-skies," Space, where the New Jerusalem is currently under construction. The New Jerusalem is "His Father's house" in John 14:1-3. And, it is THAT "Bedouin house" or "tent" that is used to describe the New Jerusalem in Revelation 21:1-3.

So, NO ONE is technically "GOING to Heaven"; what is often described as "Heaven," the New Jerusalem, comes HERE, after "HERE" is remade into the New Earth with its New Skies.

Furthermore, just to add to the truth that is hidden from so many, there is NO PROMISE IN SCRIPTURE that "all shall be revealed."

[Retrobyter]

5 hours ago, JohnR7 said:

First the Bible is literal, then symbolic and numeric. Often they use the word allegory or archetype or the modern term is paradigm. Jesus tells us: "He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire" (Matthew 3:11) 

Shabbat shalom, JohnR7.

Whoa, Nelly! Stop right there! Let's look at JOHN'S words in Matthew 3:11, and in context:

Matthew 3:1-12 (KJV)

1 In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea, 2 And saying,

"Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand!"

3 For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying,

"The voice of one crying in the wilderness, 'Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.'"

4 And the same John had his raiment of camel's hair, and a leathern girdle about his loins; and his meat was locusts and wild honey. 5 Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan, 6 And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.

7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them,

"O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance: 9 And think not to say within yourselves, 'We have Abraham to our father': for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham! 10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you (Greek: humas = "you" PLURAL) with the Holy Ghost, and with fire: 12 Whose fan (winnowing fork) is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

What you're not understanding is that the Greek word "kai" can be interpreted into English as either "and" or "or," depending on the context! In this particular case, John is warning these Pharisees and Sadducees that the Messiah shall baptize ALL OF THEM AS A GROUP in both the Ruwach haQodesh (the Holy Spirit of God) AND with the fire by which He will "burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire!" Individually, however, they will receive one baptism OR the other! Each one of them will either submit to God and be baptized by the Ruwach haQodesh OR he or she shall be baptized with unquenchable fire! At NO POINT in John's words is the "fire" a good thing!

5 hours ago, JohnR7 said:

When I first got saved I was on fire for God. He was cleansing me of a lot of stuff. Zecharia talks about how God is going to bring 1/3 through the fire. What do you think this means? Do you think this is a literal fire that God is going to bring the people through? 

I will bring the one-third through the fire, Will refine them as silver is refined, And test them as gold is tested". (Zechariah 13:9)

 

What do I think this means??? Who cares?! What does it actually mean?! It's not subjective thought; it's an OBJECTIVE passage of Scripture! First, we must ask a few other questions: WHO is this talking about?!

Zechariah 13:1-9 (KJV)

1 In that day there shall be a fountain opened TO THE HOUSE OF DAVID AND TO THE INHABITANTS OF JERUSALEM for sin and for uncleanness.
2 "And it shall come to pass in that day," saith the LORD of hosts, "that I will cut off the names of the idols out of the land, and they shall no more be remembered: and also I will cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to pass out of the land. 3 And it shall come to pass, that when any shall yet prophesy, then his father and his mother that begat him shall say unto him, 'Thou shalt not live; for thou speakest lies in the name of the LORD': and his father and his mother that begat him shall thrust him through when he prophesieth. 4 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the prophets shall be ashamed every one of his vision, when he hath prophesied; neither shall they wear a rough garment to deceive: 5 But he shall say, 'I am no prophet, I am an husbandman; for man taught me to keep cattle from my youth.' 6 And one shall say unto him, 'What are these wounds in thine hands?' Then he shall answer, 'Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.'

7 "Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones!

8 "And it shall come to pass, that in all the land," saith the LORD, "two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein. 9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, 'It is my people!': and they shall say, 'The LORD is my God!'"

Zechariah, or rather, Z'kharyahuw, was saying that GOD says that these are the children of Israel, specifically, the Jews of Jerusalem, and even more specifically, the household of David. Now, if you're willing to be counted in their number, then maybe this could apply to you, but if not, then it doesn't.

[JohnR7]

11 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Furthermore, just to add to the truth that is hidden from so many, there is NO PROMISE IN SCRIPTURE that "all shall be revealed."

I am talking about Luke 17:18 "For there is nothing hidden that will not be disclosed, and nothing concealed that will not be known or brought out into the open". I have nothing to say. I just give people the scriptures and let them determine for themselves what those scriptures say. Jesus tells us to pray: Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven". So whatever Heaven is, Heaven is a place where God's will is done and that is the lesson for us that we are always to do the will of God so that we are well pleasing to him. We are not here to please man, we are there to please God to serve God. To bring praise, honor and glory to God.

[Retrobyter]

6 hours ago, JohnR7 said:

I am talking about Luke 17:18 "For there is nothing hidden that will not be disclosed, and nothing concealed that will not be known or brought out into the open". I have nothing to say. I just give people the scriptures and let them determine for themselves what those scriptures say. Jesus tells us to pray: Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven". So whatever Heaven is, Heaven is a place where God's will is done and that is the lesson for us that we are always to do the will of God so that we are well pleasing to him. We are not here to please man, we are there to please God to serve God. To bring praise, honor and glory to God.

Shalom, JohnR7.

The part that I've highlighted by boldface type is a HUGE problem.

God's Word, the Scriptures, are NOT subject to a person's beliefs. Furthermore, it is the DUTY of every teacher of God's Word and every preacher and every evangelist TO DELIVER EXACTLY His Word to the students and listeners under his or her care! And, that teacher, preacher or evangelist is RESPONSIBLE for the delivery of His Word!

God's Word is not subjective; it's not to be interpreted at the whim of the listener. God's Word is OBJECTIVE; it's INDEPENDENT of the listener's understanding and what God SAYS is ABSOLUTE TRUTH.

When Yeshua` told us to pray "Thy Kingdom come" that doesn't mean "Thy Kingdom IS come." It means "LET Thy Kingdom come!" I.e., it's not here yet.

Similarly, He said, "LET Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven." That phrase "in heaven" is the Greek phrase "en ouranoo" which means "in [the] sky." So, the sentence becomes, "LET Thy will be done on earth as it is in the sky." No one could change the weather; no one could affect the way the stars move. GOD ALONE was responsible for the weather and the stars! He was saying to request God to have full control over the earth as He already does in what we see above us.

Therefore, I agree with you on your conclusion, "the lesson for us [is] that we are always to do the will of God so that we are well pleasing to him. We are not here to please man, we are here to please God, to serve God, to bring praise, honor and glory to God."

Revelation 4:11 (KJV)

11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

[Retrobyter]

7 hours ago, JohnR7 said:

I am talking about Luke 17:18 "For there is nothing hidden that will not be disclosed, and nothing concealed that will not be known or brought out into the open". I have nothing to say. I just give people the scriptures and let them determine for themselves what those scriptures say. Jesus tells us to pray: Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven". So whatever Heaven is, Heaven is a place where God's will is done and that is the lesson for us that we are always to do the will of God so that we are well pleasing to him. We are not here to please man, we are there to please God to serve God. To bring praise, honor and glory to God.

Shalom, again, JohnR7.

I should also say that I think you have the wrong reference. I believe you mean Luke 8:17. Here it is in context:

Luke 8:16-18 (KJV)

16 No man, when he hath lighted a candle, covereth it with a vessel, or putteth it under a bed; but setteth it on a candlestick, that they which enter in may see the light. 17 For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad. 18 Take heed therefore how ye hear: for whosoever hath, to him shall be given; and whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he seemeth to have.

This is talking about deeds that MEN and WOMEN which to conceal! THEIR secrets shall be brought to light! If this doesn't happen within their lifetimes, it SHALL happen in the Millennium at the Judgment Seat of the Messiah!