Calculations about the New Jerusalem

[JohnR7]

7 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

I should also say that I think you have the wrong reference.

Whatever the reference is I am not interpreting it for you. I just give you the reference and leave up to you to gain whatever understanding you can from that scripture. 

[Retrobyter]

23 hours ago, JohnR7 said:

Whatever the reference is I am not interpreting it for you. I just give you the reference and leave up to you to gain whatever understanding you can from that scripture. 

Shalom, JohnR7.

Well, I think the "candle" is actually a stick of dynamite. We put it on a stand in the middle of the room so that, when it goes off, it lifts the roof off the house, not just lifting the bed up a little or blowing up a bushel basket. Is that what you see, too?

[JohnR7]

On 2/21/2021 at 12:05 PM, Retrobyter said:

God's Word is not subjective; it's not to be interpreted at the whim of the listener. God's Word is OBJECTIVE; it's INDEPENDENT of the listener's understanding and what God SAYS is ABSOLUTE TRUTH.

Both Hebrew and Greek are very exact languages. They say what they mean and they mean what they say. Greek is a language you can command an army when the commands need to be understood and leave nothing to the imagination. 

[JohnR7]

On 2/21/2021 at 12:05 PM, Retrobyter said:

Similarly, He said, "LET Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven."

Jesus already tells us in Matthew 5:34 that Heaven is the Throne of God. Throne means power, dominion & Authority. 

[Retrobyter]

22 hours ago, JohnR7 said:

Jesus already tells us in Matthew 5:34 that Heaven is the Throne of God. Throne means power, dominion & Authority. 

Shalom, JohnR7.

Well, Matthew 5:34 doesn't capitalize the word "heaven" like you do. Furthermore, the Greek word translated "heaven" there is "ouranos" (en too ouranoo) which refers to the sky where the clouds and weather are and where the birds fly.

3772 ouranos (oo-ran-os'). Perhaps from the same as oros (through the idea of elevation); the sky; by extension, heaven (as the abode of God); by implication, happiness, power, eternity; specially, the Gospel (Christianity)
-- air, heaven(-ly), sky.

The word means "the sky."

Also, the Greek word for "throne" is "thronos":

2362 thronos (thron-os). From thraoo (to sit); a stately seat ("throne"); by implication, power or (concretely) a potentate -- seat, throne.

So, actually, a thronos is a SEAT, a THRONE, a CHAIR for royalty to SIT!

[JohnR7]

On 3/1/2021 at 9:43 AM, Retrobyter said:

3772 ouranos (oo-ran-os'). Perhaps from the same as oros (through the idea of elevation); the sky; by extension, heaven (as the abode of God); by implication, happiness, power, eternity; specially, the Gospel (Christianity)
-- air, heaven(-ly), sky.

First of all the Bible is literal. In the sky at night is all of creation, all of what we call the Universe and the Bible refers to as the Cosmos. Second the Bible is symbolic or an archetype. The rule of first use is that first time a word is used sets the pace for the future use of that word in the Bible. In Genesis 1:1 we read: "1In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters." God did not create a SKY until the fourth day. Yet Heaven was created on the first day. 

Also verses to consider in John  14 "…2In My Father’s house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? 3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and welcome you into My presence, so that you also may be where I am. "

Then we read about treasures in Heaven Matthew 6:20. So Jesus is talking about a place where there are treasures and mansions and He prepares a place for us.  When we die our body returns to the earth waiting for the resurrection. Our spirit and soul goes to be with Jesus. This is called a rapture.  We will return with Jesus. Our body and soul will be reunited at the resurrection.  

[Retrobyter]

On 2/18/2021 at 12:34 AM, JohnR7 said:

The fire is spiritual: "8And in all the land, declares the LORD, two-thirds will be cut off and perish, but a third will be left in it. 9This third I will bring through the fire; I will refine them like silver and test them like gold. They will call on My name, and I will answer them. I will say, ‘They are My people,’ and they will say, ‘The LORD is our God.’” (Zechariah 13:9)

Shalom, JohnR7.

Well, THAT "fire" may be symbolic for testing and refining, but not the "fire" that Peter talks about in 2 Peter 3!

[Retrobyter]

On 3/2/2021 at 12:27 PM, JohnR7 said:

First of all the Bible is literal. In the sky at night is all of creation, all of what we call the Universe and the Bible refers to as the Cosmos. Second the Bible is symbolic or an archetype. The rule of first use is that first time a word is used sets the pace for the future use of that word in the Bible. In Genesis 1:1 we read: "1In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters." God did not create a SKY until the fourth day. Yet Heaven was created on the first day. 

Shalom, JohnR7.

Sorry these posts are coming so late, but with so much going on, I've lost what I was writing about.

This isn't true. God did NOT create the sky until the fourth day, as you said. The first verse of Genesis 1 (1:1), is a SUMMATION of what is to follow! That is TYPICAL Hebrew literary technique! It's different than Western thought and literature! It's NOT part of Day 1! Here's Day 1:

Genesis 1:3-5 (KJV)

3 And God said,

"Let there be light":

and there was light. 4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. 5 And God called the light "Day," and the darkness he called "Night." And the evening and the morning were the first day.

 

First, there is a OVERVIEW of what is to follow, and THEN the author goes into the details of the account! The simple proof is found in the usage of the words "shaamaayim" (translated "heaven" or "heavens") and "erets" (translated "earth"):

While Genesis 1:1 uses both words, the raqiya` (translated "expanse") and the dry land revealed from the waters under the raqiya`,  (translated as "earth") WERE NOT NAMED UNTIL DAYS 2 AND 3, RESPECTIVELY! 

Here's the Hebrew of verse 1:

בְּרֵאשִׁ֖ית בָּרָ֣א אֱלֹהִ֑ים אֵ֥ת הַשָּׁמַ֖יִם וְאֵ֥ת הָאָֽרֶץ׃

Here's the Hebrew of verses 8 and 10:

וַיִּקְרָ֧א אֱלֹהִ֛ים לָֽרָקִ֖יעַ שָׁמָ֑יִם וַֽיְהִי־עֶ֥רֶב וַֽיְהִי־בֹ֖קֶר יֹ֥ום שֵׁנִֽי׃ פ

וַיִּקְרָ֨א אֱלֹהִ֤ים ׀ לַיַּבָּשָׁה֙ אֶ֔רֶץ וּלְמִקְוֵ֥ה הַמַּ֖יִם קָרָ֣א יַמִּ֑ים וַיַּ֥רְא אֱלֹהִ֖ים כִּי־טֹֽוב׃

The only difference between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:8 and 10 is that the definite article prefix "ha-" (-הַ) was added in Genesis 1:1. Otherwise, they are the SAME WORDS! And, these things were not so NAMED (-וַיִּקְרָ֨א ...לַ) until verses 8 and 10!

Also, a "Spirit," which is a "WIND," doesn't "hover!" It BLOWS ACROSS a surface, sometimes VIOLENTLY!

On 3/2/2021 at 12:27 PM, JohnR7 said:

Also verses to consider in John  14 "…2In My Father’s house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? 3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and welcome you into My presence, so that you also may be where I am. "

Then we read about treasures in Heaven Matthew 6:20. So Jesus is talking about a place where there are treasures and mansions and He prepares a place for us.  When we die our body returns to the earth waiting for the resurrection. Our spirit and soul goes to be with Jesus. This is called a rapture.  We will return with Jesus. Our body and soul will be reunited at the resurrection.  

This may SOUND right to you, but you've got a poor translation of John 14. Going to prepare us a place and TAKING us there are two different things entirely! Yeeshuwa` NEVER said He was coming back to TAKE us there! He said what was translated into Greek as,

3 καὶ ἐὰν πορευθῶ καὶ ἑτοιμάσω ὑμῖν τόπον, πάλιν ἔρχομαι καὶ παραλήψομαι ὑμᾶς πρὸς ἐμαυτόν· ἵνα ὅπου εἰμὶ ἐγώ, καὶ ὑμεῖς ἦτε.

Transliterated into English characters, we get,

3 Kai ean poreuthoo kai etoimasoo humin topon, palin erchomai kai paraleepsomai humas pros emauton; hina hopou eimi egoo, kai humeis eete.

This is translated word-for-word into English as,

3 "And if I-go and I-prepare for-you a-place, again I-am-coming and I-will-receive you unto myself; so-that where I am, also you will-be."

Your version's TRANSLATOR(S) added things that were NOT in the text! 

Now, think about it: When Yeeshuwa` returns, WHERE will He be? He'll be back on the earth, right?! So, when He receives us to Himself, where will we be received? HERE ON THIS EARTH wherever He is after He gets back!

There's NO PROMISE in that verse that He will "take us to Heaven!" That's a CONCLUSION some have drawn, but it's NOT IN THE TEXT!

[farouk]

8 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, JohnR7.

Well, THAT "fire" may be symbolic for testing and refining, but not the "fire" that Peter talks about in 2 Peter 3!

Hi @Retrobyter Malachi also speaks of the 'refiner's fire'....

[Spiros]

Quote

² εν τη οικια του πατρος μου μοναι πολλαι εισιν ει δε μη ειπον αν υμιν πορευομαι ετοιμασαι τοπον υμιν

³ και εαν πορευθω και ετοιμασω υμιν τοπον παλιν ερχομαι και παραληψομαι υμας προς εμαυτον ινα οπου ειμι εγω και υμεις ητε

Using isopsephy:

 

Β' ΟΙΚΙΑ ΠΑΤΡΟΣ = ΙΕΡΟΥΣΑΛΗΜ = 864

Α' ΟΙΚΙΑ ΠΑΤΡΟΣ = ΜΕΤΡΗΣΙΣ = 863

 

Second house of (my) father adds up to Jerusalem.

 

First house of (my) father adds up to measurement.

 

"I am the way the truth and the life" can be decoded in a way to

I am the astronomy, the physics, and the geodesy.

 

astronomy as in "our Father who art in heaven", stars are in heaven, physics and scientific constants lead to scientific truth and the Holy Spirit. This is on the horizon not above or below but rather of the cosmos. Finally geodesy define places relating to the Earth and homes as also pyramids and eternal homes New Jerusalem. They relate to the life, to live you need carbon materialism in your body and need to feed on the fruit of the earth. Geodesy relates to the Son, the Logos that became flesh.

 

Then one comes to the "magic" word πορευθώ (will) go. Does this denote a trip to another place another time or both? If one decodes the word one finds the New Jerusalem. This time did not exist when the disciples heard these words. But this place also did not exist. God will prepare a place in the future?

Edited April 3, 2023 by Spiros