My own beliefs about "eternal security"

[gordon7777]

John 5:24 ²⁴ Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Hear HIs word, is sit lowest waiting for the LOrd to judge if we sat lowly enough or not, and if we exalt we did not, at all, and that is to have eternal life already, when we do not expect it, others have to be answered later..

Luke 14:⁸ When thou art bidden of any man to a wedding, sit not down in the highest room; lest a more honourable man than thou be bidden of him;⁹ And he that bade thee and him come and say to thee, Give this man place; and thou begin with shame to take the lowest room.¹⁰ But when thou art bidden, go and sit down in the lowest room; that when he that bade thee cometh, he may say unto thee, Friend, go up higher: then shalt thou have worship in the presence of them that sit at meat with thee.¹¹ For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?²³ And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

[Blood Bought 1953]

 

I never tire of showing Newbies the point of Christianity......a joyful life that is available by learning how to rest in in the finished work of the Cross— nevermind the fact that He demands it.....who wants to be guilty of UNBELIEF like the Jews who lacked the faith in God to enter The Promised Land? Where else are people gonna get this stuff? Not in any church that I have ever attended.Naysayers who are sick of this debate thankfully have the option to opt out.We get your point......you think this never ending debate is asinine.Fine.Others disagree .Please leave us to our “ nonsense” Thanking you in advance.

 

[gordon7777]

A real joyful life, according to those who follow this fiery path, or those who do not..

Hebrews 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Hebrews 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

 

Revelation 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Revelation 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

 

2 Corinthians 11:23 Are they ministers of Christ? (I speak as a fool) I am more; in labours more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequent, in deaths oft.

[Blood Bought 1953]

3 minutes ago, gordon7777 said:

A real joyful life, according to those who follow this fiery path, or those who do not..

Hebrews 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Hebrews 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

 

Revelation 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Revelation 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

 

2 Corinthians 11:23 Are they ministers of Christ? (I speak as a fool) I am more; in labours more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequent, in deaths oft.

 

Forgive me If I am mistaken, but I think you are helping me prove my point. ( my Spidey senses tell me that I am probably wrong)

[gordon7777]

The prize is faith in a faithless world, and it is humility in an exalted generation, it is enduring when it is the most terrible times ever, and it is fearing the Lord when the devil who is made without fear has his followers everywhere without fear too.

 

2 Thessalonians 1:11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:

Luke 21:³³ Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.³⁴ And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.³⁵ For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.³⁶ Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

2 Timothy 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

 

Jude 1:⁴ For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

Jude 1:12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;

[frienduff thaylorde]

1 hour ago, Blood Bought 1953 said:

 

People are free to believe as they wish......my foes have the right to be wrong......lol......I just have one little problem......nobody can refute John 5:24......That is proof that Jesus was the Originator and still the Chief Proponent Of OSAS! Or maybe at long last ,someone can refute the Words of Jesus—- “ All that believe in Me already HAVE Eternal life, and they will NEVER come into condemnation.” How nice to have this verse on my side .I would sure hate to have a choice of being forever silent about it , or tying myself up in knots trying to make it say what it does not say.

His sheep hear his voice .  and they would do as HE did and speak the same words as HE DID .   So how come so many under OSAS , never say things like

GO and sin no more  ,  OR let not inquity once be named among you  .     Why do some even say we can return to the pit and be overcome and we are still saved

,when peter said otherwise .     Cuase they resting on an acronym built by men and not IN CHRIST .

I think we can all agree , PETER was saved , we all know he followed Christ .   And he says that if the hog that was washed clean returns to the pit and is overcome

their latter end is worse .    But you SAY ...................................EXACTLY .   Blood bought ,   you need to flee HYPER GRACE man .

Make that calling and election SURE .   MAKE IT SURE ,   ensure WHO we follow .    is it men or is it Christ .

We both know what you said about the scenario I gave you .     That if a man once prayed and meant it ,  even if a gay man returned to the pit

and actually died in the middle of that sin with antoher man in his arms ,  YOU SAID HE WOULD STILL GO TO HEAVEN , if he had once prayed a prayer and meant it .

You don't know how dead wrong you are .     This is why I worry SO BAD FOR YOU .     I don't hear everyone who claims OSAS saying what you say .

You say some real scary stuff man .      And you need to examine and relearn some things . 

[Blood Bought 1953]

 

Thank you for your concern .......please realize I worry about you also....... “ to worry” is a sin, so let’s both repent and strive to trust that God’s Will shall be done.....you pray for me and I will pray for you....God bless.

[Kevin_1972]

9 hours ago, Blood Bought 1953 said:

People are free to believe as they wish......my foes have the right to be wrong......lol......I just have one little problem......nobody can refute John 5:24......That is proof that Jesus was the Originator and still the Chief Proponent Of OSAS! Or maybe at long last ,someone can refute the Words of Jesus—- “ All that believe in Me already HAVE Eternal life, and they will NEVER come into condemnation.”

Well, in regards to salvation itself, there's more to it than what you cited. That scripture is true of, of course, but that is not the only scripture that speaks of salvation.  Let's quote it just for the record:

(Joh 5:24)  "Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

and you then conclude:

9 hours ago, Blood Bought 1953 said:

“ All that believe in Me already HAVE Eternal life, and they will NEVER come into condemnation.”

As mentioned above, that is not the only scripture that speaks of salvation.  For example, here's another scripture from Jesus:

(Mat 7:21)  "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

The first part of this verse kills your "All that believe in Me already HAVE Eternal life and they will NEVER come into condemnation."  You say "ALL" that believe is saved, Jesus say nope, not everyone, but only those who do the will of my Father in heaven.  If somebody went by John 5:24 and then put the blinders on - they could live a life believing in Christ and yet not doing the will of the Father - and their belief would do them no good because they failed to consider the entire counsel of God on the matter of salvation.

Another one:

(Luk 13:5)  I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish."

Repentance is needed for salvation.  Where is that mentioned in John 5:24?

Last example for now  :

(Luk 14:26)  "If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple.
(Luk 14:27)  And whoever does not carry their cross and follow me cannot be my disciple.

Following Christ means that you put Him first above all things and everybody, which goes beyond simply believing in Christ.  There's more to it than "All that believe in Me already HAVE Eternal life and they will NEVER come into condemnation." as you say.

Conclusion

There are various considerations that have to be made when a person considers salvation.  By his own free will, he either chooses to adhere to those scriptures, or he chooses not to.  Choosing to follow them will result in eternal life.  If that man follows the truth to salvation, he still has his free will to not adhere to what is written about salvation and fall away, and here is biblical proof of this very thing being possible:
 

(James 5:19)  My brothers and sisters, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring that person back,
(James 5:20)  remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of their way will save them from death and cover over a multitude of sins.

James is clearly showing that somebody can be in the truth and wander from it.  This shouldn't be possible according to OSAS because a true believer would not (or could not) wander from the truth.  And yet here we are.  And if you going to tell me this person wouldn't be a "true" believer... how can a person be in the truth and yet not be a true believer?  Also, can a person be in the truth and yet not be saved??  No way!  If they are not a true believer and thus not saved, then they are NOT in the truth.

And if he wasn't "really" in the truth... how can you wander from the truth if you weren't first in it?  And it clearly shows that death is on the line and IF a person brinks the "BACK" to the truth, they will "save them from death."  You can't bring a person "back" to the truth if they weren't already in it.  These two verses absolutely by themselves destroy OSAS.  How are these verses even POSSIBLE if OSAS is true??

Edited June 16, 2019 by Kevin_1972

[Blood Bought 1953]

3 hours ago, Kevin_1972 said:

Well, in regards to salvation itself, there's more to it than what you cited. That scripture is true of, of course, but that is not the only scripture that speaks of salvation.  Let's quote it just for the record:

(Joh 5:24)  "Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

and you then conclude:

As mentioned above, that is not the only scripture that speaks of salvation.  For example, here's another scripture from Jesus:

(Mat 7:21)  "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

The first part of this verse kills your "All that believe in Me already HAVE Eternal life and they will NEVER come into condemnation."  You say "ALL" that believe is saved, Jesus say nope, not everyone, but only those who do the will of my Father in heaven.  If somebody went by John 5:24 and then put the blinders on - they could live a life believing in Christ and yet not doing the will of the Father - and their belief would do them no good because they failed to consider the entire counsel of God on the matter of salvation.

Another one:

(Luk 13:5)  I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish."

Repentance is needed for salvation.  Where is that mentioned in John 5:24?

Last example for now  :

(Luk 14:26)  "If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple.
(Luk 14:27)  And whoever does not carry their cross and follow me cannot be my disciple.

Following Christ means that you put Him first above all things and everybody, which goes beyond simply believing in Christ.  There's more to it than "All that believe in Me already HAVE Eternal life and they will NEVER come into condemnation." as you say.

Conclusion

There are various considerations that have to be made when a person considers salvation.  By his own free will, he either chooses to adhere to those scriptures, or he chooses not to.  Choosing to follow them will result in eternal life.  If that man follows the truth to salvation, he still has his free will to not adhere to what is written about salvation and fall away, and here is biblical proof of this very thing being possible:
 

(James 5:19)  My brothers and sisters, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring that person back,
(James 5:20)  remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of their way will save them from death and cover over a multitude of sins.

James is clearly showing that somebody can be in the truth and wander from it.  This shouldn't be possible according to OSAS because a true believer would not (or could not) wander from the truth.  And yet here we are.  And if you going to tell me this person wouldn't be a "true" believer... how can a person be in the truth and yet not be a true believer?  Also, can a person be in the truth and yet not be saved??  No way!  If they are not a true believer and thus not saved, then they are NOT in the truth.

And if he wasn't "really" in the truth... how can you wander from the truth if you weren't first in it?  And it clearly shows that death is on the line and IF a person brinks the "BACK" to the truth, they will "save them from death."  You can't bring a person "back" to the truth if they weren't already in it.  These two verses absolutely by themselves destroy OSAS.  How are these verses even POSSIBLE if OSAS is true??

(Mat 7:21)  "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

So what is the “ will of the Father?” The disciples asked the same question.Jesus defined His Father’s will.... “ BELIEVE on the One He sent.”

Those that we’re forbidden to enter Heaven did not “believe on” or trust in Jesus for their Salvation— they tried to justify themselves by saying , “ we did this and we did that”. NOTHING that showed trust in Jesus and His Shed Blood as the ONLY thing that could justify their entrance into Heaven.The only “ I” that Jesus will put up with is , “ I”  believed on You , and “ I” believed your Gospel.Anything beyond that pronoun , in that context ,is adding to the Gospel Of Grace and all of those who reveal themselves at crunch time to be really trusting in “ how good they were” instead of “ Believing on the One that God sent” will be told to depart 

 

Another one:

(Luk 13:5)  I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish."
 
Repentance is needed for salvation.  Where is that mentioned in John 5:24?

 

Repent means “ a change of mind”. The Gospel Of John never once uses the word “ repent”. All he ever says is “believe” . To go from Unbelief in Jesus to Belief in Jesus is the change of mind  that determines you Eternal Destiny.Thats Why John never had to use the actual word “ repentance.” It’s built in to your new belief of Christ being the One He said He was.

 

(Luk 14:26)  "If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple.
(Luk 14:27)  And whoever does not carry their cross and follow me cannot be my disciple.

 

Discipleship is not the same thing as being a run- Of-The -mill ,Born - again Believer.A Disciple goes beyond what is required and will be rewarded accordingly.

 

I have been up all night.....this is all the enlightenment I can spare you for now...consider it a Father’s Day gift!   Only joking....I appreciated your civil response.God bless

Edited June 16, 2019 by Blood Bought 1953

[gordon7777]

If man had free will to choose God there would be no sense in the world it was testified and proven, as not seeking the Lord not one..

 

Romans 3:⁹ What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;¹⁰ As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:¹¹ There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.¹² They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.¹³ Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:¹⁴ Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:¹⁵ Their feet are swift to shed blood:¹⁶ Destruction and misery are in their ways:¹⁷ And the way of peace have they not known:¹⁸ There is no fear of God before their eyes.

 

They did not cease to have their throat as an open sepulchre, they are the many workers of iniquity who think Christ is their Lord when they work iniquity/sin..

 

Psalm 5:⁵ The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.⁶ Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the Lord will abhor the bloody and deceitful man.⁷ But as for me, I will come into thy house in the multitude of thy mercy: and in thy fear will I worship toward thy holy temple.⁸ Lead me, O Lord, in thy righteousness because of mine enemies; make thy way straight before my face.⁹ For there is no faithfulness in their mouth; their inward part is very wickedness; their throat is an open sepulchre; they flatter with their tongue.

 

First it will be those who are chastened, and no chastening is joyeous but this is how pride us taken out of man..

 

Hebrews 12:11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

 

But man cant have freewill, for one simple reason, he does not know how to find the Lord, no matter how free he presumes he is..

 

Matthew 11:²⁵ At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.²⁶ Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.²⁷ All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

 

Now all men were commanded to repent, this is the assurance of eternal life, as He has risen Him from the dead. The selfish wont repent though, because they cannot. If you have all faith but lack charity it is nothing, charity seeketh not her own and never rejoices in iniquity(the born of God sin not and truly love their neighbour) they rejoice in the truth and the acknowledging of the truth has to be given by God or man cannot repent or even understand as they hear not rebuke..

Acts 17:³⁰ And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:³¹ Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

1 Corinthians 13:² And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.³ And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.⁴ Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,⁵ Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;⁶ Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;

 

2 Timothy 2:²⁵ In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;²⁶ And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

 

Proverbs 13:1 A wise son heareth his father's instruction: but a scorner heareth not rebuke.

 

Proverbs 13:8 The ransom of a man's life are his riches: but the poor heareth not rebuke.