Some interesting insights on who Jesus was

[Guest Zayit]

Let's now address the second question about Jesus. Here we enter an emotionally charged mine field. Regrettably, for the past 2000 years, the name of Jesus has been linked with Christian anti-Semitism. The cross sometimes stirs up anxieties and apprehensions within us. We think of the Crusades, the Good Friday pogroms, and other massacres, when thousands of Jews were murdered, under the cross, in the name of Jesus.

Jesus, himself, a Jew, would be appalled if he knew about the atrocities perpetuated in his name in the centuries following his death. Fortunately, in the last three or four decades, Christian-Jewish relations have greatly improved. Thus, we Jews can now take a more dispassionate and objective look at the figure of Jesus. Let us emphasize that Jesus was born, lived and died as a Jew. He was never anything but a Jew.

Jesus was a devoted son of the synagogue. He sat at the feet of some illustrious Rabbis of his time and dazzled them with his genius and brilliance. He taught Jewish ideals and values. Jesus was also a hero among the oppressed Jewish masses living in Palestine at the time of the Roman occupation. Many Jews looked to Jesus to free them from this harassment and oppression. The Roman authorities were naturally threatened by Jesus. They regarded him as a dangerous revolutionary, and, therefore, they crucified him.

[Guest Zayit]

Now where does thoughts lie on the church?

Influenced by Greek thought, Paul insisted that everyone was born with a sinful condition. It was inherited from Adam, who disobeyed God. The only way we can rid ourselves of this sinful blemish is to accept the saving power of Jesus, whom Paul regarded as God made flesh. He directed his new-found faith primarily to Gentiles, not to Jews. He gave the non-Jews a way to connect with God, without following the mandates of the Torah.

Therefore, why don't we Jews believe in Jesus? The truth is that we can accept the Jewish Jesus, as one of the eminent religious teachers of his time. As a Jew, Jesus lived by the requirements of Torah. It is the Christian Christ that we can't embrace. First of all, to Jews, God can not assume a flesh-and-blood form. To us, God will always remain intangible and indivisible.

There is also another significant consideration. When Jesus was born 2000 years ago, we Jews had already been in a covenant with God for the previous 2000 years. That covenant is permanent. To provide an opportunity for non-Jews to covenant with God, Paul offered a new possibility: the notion of a Christian Christ. In other words, we Jews have all we need in the first covenant through Torah. The second covenant through Jesus was intended for Gentiles. It was to enable them to bond with God. Both covenants are equally valid, one for Jews, the other for Gentiles. So much for the Jewish stance on Jesus.

[Guest yod]

In other words, we Jews have all we need in the first covenant through Torah. The second covenant through Jesus was intended for Gentiles. It was to enable them to bond with God. Both covenants are equally valid, one for Jews, the other for Gentiles.

surely you are not agreeing with this position, Zayit?

I wonder if this rabbi ever read Jeremiah 31....which is in "his" side of the Book

[Guest Zayit]

In other words, we Jews have all we need in the first covenant through Torah. The second covenant through Jesus was intended for Gentiles. It was to enable them to bond with God. Both covenants are equally valid, one for Jews, the other for Gentiles.

surely you are not agreeing with this position, Zayit?

I wonder if this rabbi ever read Jeremiah 31....which is in "his" side of the Book

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You think I'm ( that kind of ) reformed?

Only in his image.

Edited June 15, 2005 by Zayit

[Tishri 1]

very insightful Zayit! So that's what many of the Jews think...so what is wrong and what is right with their picture?

[Guest Zayit]

I thought it was good to know where their heads are right now, it is hopeful that they ( or at least this Rabbi) revere him as a hero of genius magnitude, a man for the common oppressed and a man for the highly schooled.

[Guest shiloh357]

In other words, we Jews have all we need in the first covenant through Torah. The second covenant through Jesus was intended for Gentiles. It was to enable them to bond with God. Both covenants are equally valid, one for Jews, the other for Gentiles.

surely you are not agreeing with this position, Zayit?

I wonder if this rabbi ever read Jeremiah 31....which is in "his" side of the Book

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You think I'm ( that kind of ) reformed?

Only in his image.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually that's "conformed" not "reformed" We as Messianic Jews could refer to ourselves as a new branch of Judaism: "Conformed" Jews, HA!!!

Seriously, though... there are believers who propogate "two covenant theology." It is the idea that observant Jews will still go to heaven via the Old Covenant, even if they reject the Messiah. It is heretical to say the least. There is only ONE way to heaven and that is through Yeshua/Jesus.

[Guest Zayit]

In other words, we Jews have all we need in the first covenant through Torah. The second covenant through Jesus was intended for Gentiles. It was to enable them to bond with God. Both covenants are equally valid, one for Jews, the other for Gentiles.

surely you are not agreeing with this position, Zayit?

I wonder if this rabbi ever read Jeremiah 31....which is in "his" side of the Book

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You think I'm ( that kind of ) reformed?

Only in his image.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually that's "conformed" not "reformed" We as Messianic Jews could refer to ourselves as a new branch of Judaism: "Conformed" Jews, HA!!!

Seriously, though... there are believers who propogate "two covenant theology." It is the idea that observant Jews will still go to heaven via the Old Covenant, even if they reject the Messiah. It is heretical to say the least. There is only ONE way to heaven and that is through Yeshua/Jesus.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sure that's not re-formed? Yes, I like that conformed, as long as it's not separated, but give that word to any unbelieivng Jew and that is what would happen, they would insist that we had been conned.

As far as the 2C, it is odd that this unbeliever in Yeshua seems to be proposing the same thing.

[Guest shiloh357]

Well, it's not really that odd. It is an attempt made by Jewish unbelievers to con believers into thinking that they don't need to witness to Jews, and unfortunately there are some Messianics and even believers in mainline Churches that believe the same thing. Rabbi Yechiel Ekstein has made inroads in several churches all over the US with this teaching.

Most of these people do not realy understand what Judaism teaches, and therefore fall to this false doctrine.

[Guest Zayit]

Yeah, I knew when I wrote that it didn't come out right, I understand what you are saying, but I meant that this was one thing many Jews and those who call themselves Christian agree on, but it isn't G-ds plan at all.