Who Is The Archangel Michael ?

[ShinyGospelShoes]

18 hours ago, saved34 said:

Christ  ... he is worshipped by ALL the angels, he is our head and is far above all angels, demons, princes and kings. 

Really?  "ALL the angels"?

Who is this verse (Malachi 3:1) speaking of:

Mal 3:1 הנני שׁלח מלאכי ופנה־דרך לפני ופתאם יבוא אל־היכלו האדון אשׁר־אתם מבקשׁים ומלאך הברית אשׁר־אתם חפצים הנה־בא אמר יהוה צבאות׃

Mal 3:1 הנניH2005 שׁלחH7971 מלאכיH4397 ופנהH6437 דרךH1870 לפניH6440 ופתאםH6597 יבואH935 אלH413 היכלוH1964 האדוןH136 אשׁרH834 אתםH859 מבקשׁיםH1245 ומלאךH4397 הבריתH1285 אשׁרH834 אתםH859 חפציםH2655 הנהH2009 באH935 אמרH559 יהוהH3068 צבאות׃H6635

Mal 3:1 hin'niy sholëªch mal'äkhiy ûfiNäh-derekh' l'fänäy ûfit'om yävô el-hëykhälô häädôn ásher-aTem m'vaq'shiym ûmal'akh' haB'riyt ásher-aTem cháfëtziym hiNëh-vä ämar y'hwäh tz'väôt

Mal 3:1 ἰδοὺ ἐγὼ ἐξαποστέλλω τὸν ἄγγελόν μου, καὶ ἐπιβλέψεται ὁδὸν πρὸ προσώπου μου, καὶ ἐξαίφνης ἥξει εἰς τὸν ναὸν ἑαυτοῦ κύριος, ὃν ὑμεῖς ζητεῖτε, καὶ ὁ ἄγγελος τῆς διαθήκης, ὃν ὑμεῖς θέλετε· ἰδοὺ ἔρχεται, λέγει κύριος παντοκράτωρ.

Mal 3:1 ιδουG2400 INJ εγωG1473 P-NS εξαποστελλωG1821 V-PAI-1S τονG3588 T-ASM αγγελονG32 N-ASM μουG1473 P-GS καιG2532 CONJ επιβλεψεταιG1914 V-FMI-3S οδονG3598 N-ASF προG4253 PREP προσωπουG4383 N-GSN μουG1473 P-GS καιG2532 CONJ εξαιφνηςG1810 ADV ηξειG1854 V-FAI-3S ειςG1519 PREP τονG3588 T-ASM ναονG3485 N-ASM εαυτουG1438 D-GSM κυριοςG2962 N-NSM ονG3739 R-ASM υμειςG4771 P-NP ζητειτεG2212 V-PAI-2P καιG2532 CONJ οG3588 T-NSM αγγελοςG32 N-NSM τηςG3588 T-GSF διαθηκηςG1242 N-GSF ονG3739 R-ASM υμειςG4771 P-NP θελετεG2309 V-PAI-2P ιδουG2400 INJ ερχεταιG2064 V-PMI-3S λεγειG3004 V-PAI-3S κυριοςG2962 N-NSM παντοκρατωρG3841 N-NSM

Who are these verses speaking of:

Exo 3:2  And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.

Exo 3:4  And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I.

Exo 4:1 And Moses answered and said, But, behold, they will not believe me, nor hearken unto my voice: for they will say, The LORD hath not appeared unto thee.

Exo 14:19 And the angel of God, which went before the camp of Israel, removed and went behind them; and the pillar of the cloud went from before their face, and stood behind them:

Exo 23:20 Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared.

Exo 13:21 And the LORD went before them by day in a pillar of a cloud, to lead them the way; and by night in a pillar of fire, to give them light; to go by day and night:

Exo 14:24 And it came to pass, that in the morning watch the LORD looked unto the host of the Egyptians through the pillar of fire and of the cloud, and troubled the host of the Egyptians,

I think you have missed the distinction that scripture makes between the created angelic hosts (as Gabriel) and the uncreated Angel (Highest messenger of the Father), the Son.

Edited August 29, 2019 by ShinyGospelShoes

[ShinyGospelShoes]

13 hours ago, maryjayne said:

disagreeing with your material is not the same as not reading it. More assumptions on your part. The reasoning in your material and posts is incorrect.

You may disagree all you desire, but without contrary evidence from scripture, all you have is your 'opinion', and that is not scripture, nor a reason to alter the position.

You said, "The reasoning in your material and posts is incorrect."

That is without demonstration on your part.  Simply saying it, does not make it so.  Show me specifically where I have erred and what specific material is incorrect by scripture.  From my sources cited, the entire Reformation is against your position which is based upon scriptural exegesis and study, and much of the so called ECF.

Edited August 29, 2019 by ShinyGospelShoes

[saved34]

24 minutes ago, ShinyGospelShoes said:

Really?  "ALL the angels"?

Yes, all the angels. 

Heb 1:5  For to which of the angels did God ever say, "You are my Son; today I have become your Father"? Or again, "I will be his Father, and he will be my Son"?

Heb 1:6  And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says, "Let all God's angels worship him."

Was Michael one of God’s angels? 

 

The Angel of the Lord was an Old Testament appearance of God. God has also appeared as a human in the Old Testament. These are Theophanies. The incarnation is unique and different from these appearances of God. Christ literally became a human from start to finish. Birthed like us, raised from a baby to a man. 

[ShinyGospelShoes]

Just now, saved34 said:

The Angel of the Lord was an Old Testament appearance of God.

Thank you.  That just proves that not "ALL the angels" worship Christ, since the Son of the Father is an "Angel" (uncreated).  You yourself just admitted it.

[ShinyGospelShoes]

6 minutes ago, saved34 said:

Heb 1:5  For to which of the angels did God ever say, "You are my Son; today I have become your Father"? Or again, "I will be his Father, and he will be my Son"?

Heb 1:6  And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says, "Let all God's angels worship him."

Already addressed, and you did not rebut, you only disagreed (ie, your 'opinion', your 'apriori'):

Hebrews 1:13 refers to the created (hence "maketh") angelic hosts, not the uncreated "Angel of the LORD" - Son of the Father, as we see in Hebrews 1:1-3, the highest Messenger sent from the Father.  In fact, Hebrews states that the created angelic hosts (Gabriel, etc) are the "fellows" in office of messengers to the uncreated Son, who is the highest Messenger.

Mat_21:37  But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.

Heb 1:9  Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

Context? Hebrews 1 vs 7.

Heb 1:7  And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.

The context of Hebrews 1:6 is the created angelic hosts, not the uncreated Angel of the LORD.

Therefore, when it says, "Let all the angels ..." it only refers to the created "fellows" of the uncreated Son, and Highest Angel (Messenger) of the Father, as seen in Vs 1-3.

You already admitted that the OT refers to the Son as the "Angel of the LORD", thus proving the point.

Your assumption is in regards Michael not being the Son.  You did not prove that the two are not the same Being.  I gave very much evidence that they are.

Edited August 29, 2019 by ShinyGospelShoes

[saved34]

1 minute ago, ShinyGospelShoes said:

Thank you.  That just proves that not "ALL the angels" worship Christ, since the Son of the Father is an "Angel" (uncreated).  You yourself just admitted it.

Using that logic not all men will worship God since he has appeared as a man as well. Scripture clearly says every knee will bow. 

 

 

[ShinyGospelShoes]

3 minutes ago, saved34 said:

Using that logic not all men will worship God since he has appeared as a man as well. Scripture clearly says every knee will bow. 

Incorrect.  All men, including Jesus worship God (the Father):

Joh_20:17  Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

All "angels" worship the Father.

Your error is in the Persons/Beings.

Edited August 29, 2019 by ShinyGospelShoes

[ShinyGospelShoes]

What most persons do not realize, is that this doctrine, is the very avenue to reach the WTS/JW persons who deny the deity of Jesus.  This is the door by which to bring them into the Light, for if they were shown (for most do not know) who Michael really is, they would have to admit the Deity of Jesus.  They have a mixture of Reformation and Catholicisms' doctrine on this.

[saved34]

5 minutes ago, ShinyGospelShoes said:

Already addressed, and you did not rebut, you only disagreed (ie, your 'opinion', your 'apriori'):

Hebrews 1:13 refers to the created (hence "maketh") angelic hosts, not the uncreated "Angel of the LORD" - Son of the Father, as we see in Hebrews 1:1-3, the highest Messenger sent from the Father.  In fact, Hebrews states that the created angelic hosts (Gabriel, etc) are the "fellows" in office of messengers to the uncreated Son, who is the highest Messenger.

Mat_21:37  But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.

Heb 1:9  Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

Context? Hebrews 1 vs 7.

Heb 1:7  And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.

The context of Hebrews 1:6 is the created angelic hosts, not the uncreated Angel of the LORD.

Therefore, when it says, "Let all the angels ..." it only refers to the created "fellows" of the uncreated Son, and Highest Angel (Messenger) of the Father, as seen in Vs 1-3.

You already admitted that the OT refers to the Son as the "Angel of the LORD", thus proving the point.

Your assumption is in regards Michael not being the Son.  You did not prove that the two are not the same Being.  I gave very much evidence that they are.

Michael rebuked satan in the name of Kurios. The Word being Eternal, and God who created Satan would not have to do this. Even in his humanity he defeated satan by his word. He intentionally humbled himself under his Father for our sakes. If he desired he could destroy satan instantly. It wouldn’t be a fair fight at all. Lol

Php 2:6  Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;

Php 2:7  rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.

 

Php 2:8  And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to death— even death on a cross!

 

[ShinyGospelShoes]

4 minutes ago, saved34 said:

Michael rebuked satan in the name of Kurios. The Word being Eternal, and God who created Satan would not have to do this.

Kurios is the koine Greek for JEHOVAH (LORD) of the OT.  Jesus rebuked in the name of the Father, as He did throughout all the NT.  In Jude, He came as the Messenger of the Father to resurrect Moses (Romans 5:14, etc), having been the one who buried him.  In office of the Highest Messenger He can only speak what the Father gives Him to speak.  These texts were already provided in this thread.

Again, compare Jude 1:9 to Zechariah 3:

Zec 3:2  And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?

Again, the Son (LORD), speaks what the will of the Father is, and refers the matter to the LORD (Father) by the LORD (Holy Ghost).

Edited August 29, 2019 by ShinyGospelShoes