Who Is The Archangel Michael ?

[ShinyGospelShoes]

7 minutes ago, saved34 said:

If he desired he could destroy satan instantly.

Luk_22:42  Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.

Joh_10:30  I and my Father are one.  (iow, they are in agreement, not the same Person/Being)

Joh_5:30  I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

Joh_6:38  For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

Not a matter of power (Jesus is Omnipotent).  It is a matter of what the Father desires.

Edited August 29, 2019 by ShinyGospelShoes

[saved34]

3 minutes ago, ShinyGospelShoes said:

Luk_22:42  Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.

Joh_10:30  I and my Father are one.  (iow, they are in agreement, not the same Person/Being)

Joh_5:30  I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

Joh_6:38  For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

Not a matter of power (Jesus is Omnipotent).  It is a matter of what the Father desires.

Which is why I gave the scripture of Christ’s self humbling. I never said they were one and the same. Scripture is clear Christ was the Word before he became a man, and that he was equal with the Father.

Joh 1:1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

 

[ShinyGospelShoes]

4 minutes ago, saved34 said:

Which is why I gave the scripture of Christ’s self humbling. I never said they were one and the same. Scripture is clear Christ was the Word before he became a man, and that he was equal with the Father.

Yes, not in question.  I didn't say you said otherwise.  I was making clear the distinction between Power and Will.

The Father is all powerful, but does not will satan to be destroyed yet.

The Son is equal with the Father, not in question.  Also all powerful.  He does the will of His Father.

Edited August 29, 2019 by ShinyGospelShoes

[ShinyGospelShoes]

21 minutes ago, ShinyGospelShoes said:

What most persons do not realize, is that this doctrine, is the very avenue to reach the WTS/JW persons who deny the deity of Jesus.  This is the door by which to bring them into the Light, for if they were shown (for most do not know) who Michael really is, they would have to admit the Deity of Jesus.  They have a mixture of Reformation and Catholicisms' doctrine on this.

I am positive that the WTS has hidden the truth from their people for years on this, since they also would have studied this matter out, and attempt to prove Michael is Jesus, while hiding the Deity.  They surely do know of the following:

21 hours ago, ShinyGospelShoes said:

I haven't suggested anything yet in regards Michael as Jesus (yet).  I am simply providing what others stated and correcting several errors with scripture.  For instance, here is what others stated on the matter:

Melito of Sardis (wrote AD 165 – AD 175, died c. AD 180 – Jesus is “among the angels, archangel”

Roman Catholic Encyclopedia: Jesus is the Angel of the Great Counsel, the Angel of the LORD, etc

Augustine of Hippo (AD 13 November 354 – AD 28 August 430) Jesus is the “Angel of the Testament”, etc

Irenaeus (AD early 2nd century – c. AD 202) Jesus is the one that came down and spoke to the Patriarchs under the designation “Angel”.

Titus Flavius Clemens (Greek: Κλήμης ὁ Ἀλεξανδρεύς; c. 150 – c. 215), known as Clement of Alexandria – Jesus is the “Angel of the Great Counsel”.

Justin Martyr, also known as Saint Justin (c. AD 100 – AD 165) – Jesus is called “Angel”, etc

Eusebius (AD 260/265 – AD 339/340); also called Eusebius of Caesarea and Eusebius Pamphili, - Jesus is called the “Angel of the mighty counsel”.

Quintus Septimius Florens Tertullianus, anglicised as Tertullian (c. AD 160 – c. AD 225 AD) – Jesus is the ‘Angel’ that spake to Moses from the midst of the bush.

Roman Catholic New American Bible with Footnotes [along with Douay Rheims], 1986: - Jesus is the “Lord’s Angel”, and “Angel of the LORD”, and etc.

Charles Buck (AD 1771 – AD 11 Aug 1815) Jesus is called “Angel” and “Archangel”.

John Butterworth, minister (born AD 1727- died AD 1803) – Jesus is “Michael”.

Alexander Cruden (AD May 31, 1699 – AD November 1, 1770) – Jesus is called “Angel”.

Thomas Taylor (AD 15 May 1758 – AD 1 November 1835) – Jesus is “Michael”.

Patrick Fairbairn (AD 28 January 1805 – AD 6 August 1874) – Jesus is “Michael”.

William Baxter Godbey (AD June 3, 1833 - AD September 12, 1920) cites Dr. Clarke that Jesus is “Michael”.

Matthew Pool[e] – (AD 1624 – AD 1679) – Jesus is “Michael”.

Sir William Smith (AD 20 May 1813 – AD 7 October 1893) – Jesus is “Michael” and cites others Luther, Hengstenberg, etc.

Thomas Coke (AD 9 September 1747 – AD 2 May 1814) – Jesus is “Michael”.

John Guyse (AD 1680 - AD 1761) – Jesus is “Michael”, and called “Angel”, etc

Elhanan Winchester (AD 1751 in Brookline, Massachusetts – AD April 18, 1797) – Jesus is “Michael”.

George Sale (AD 1697, Canterbury, Kent, England – AD 1736, London, England) ; George Psalmanazar (AD 1679? - AD 1763),; Archibald Bower (AD 17 January 1686 – AD 3 September 1766) ; George D. Shelvocke (baptised AD 1 April 1675 - AD 30 November 1742) ; John Campbell (AD 1708 - AD 1775); John Swinton (AD 1703 - AD 1777) – Jesus is “Michael”.

The Church of England Magazine. Under the superintendence of the clergymen of the United Church of England and Ireland. Vol. IV. No. 85; January 6, 1838. By James Burns. – Jesus is “Michael”.

Robert Hawker (AD 1753 – AD 1827) – Jesus is “Michael” and “Archangel”.

Samuel Horsley (AD 15 September 1733 – AD 4 October 1806) – Jesus is “Michael”.

The London Encyclopedia, or Universal Dictionary … 1839. – Jesus is “Michael”.

The Zondervan Encyclopedia of the Bible; Volume 4; M-P, Revised, Full-Color Edition; - cites that many Protestants, Hengstenberg, etc that Jesus is “Michael”.

Zondervan NIV Study Bible (Fully Revised): Wide Margin Loose-Leaf Edition; copyright 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society. – Jesus is the “angel of the Lord”, etc.

Hermann Witsius (Herman Wits or in Latin Hermannus Witsius) (AD 12 February 1636 – AD 22 October 1708) - Jesus is “Michael”.

Reinerus Vogelsangius (AD 1610 - AD 1679) – Jesus is “Michael”.

Johannes Cloppenburg (AD 1592 - AD 1652) - Jesus is Michael the “Angel of the Lord”.

Ralph Griffiths (AD c.1720 – AD September 28, 1803) – Jesus is “Michael”.

Campegius Vitringa Sr., or Kempe Vitringa[1] (born at Leeuwarden, May 16, 1659; died at Franeker, March 31, 1722) – Jesus is “Michael” the “Archangel”.

Martin Luther (AD 10 November 1483 – AD 18 February 1546) – Jesus is “Michael”.

Philipp Melanchthon (AD 16 February 1497 – AD 19 April 1560) - Jesus is “Michael”.

Johann Wigand (ca. AD 1523 - AD 21 October 1587) – Jesus is “Michael”.

David Chytraeus or Chyträus (26 February 1530, Ingelfingen – 25 June 1600, Rostock) – Jesus is “Michael”.

Giovanni Diodati or Deodati (AD 6 June 1576 – AD 3 October 1649) - Jesus is “Michael”.

Andrew Willet (AD 1562 – AD 4 December 1621) - Jesus is “Michael”.

William Miller (AD February 15, 1782 – AD December 20, 1849) - Jesus is “Michael”.

Ellen G. White (AD November 26, 1827 – AD July 16, 1915) – Jesus is “Michael”

Carl L. Beckwith, - Jesus is “Michael”.

Robert W. Bertram (AD 27 March 1921 - AD 13 March 2003) - Jesus is “Michael”.

Dr. Frances N. Lee (AD 1934 - AD Friday 23rd December, 2011) - - Jesus is “Michael”.

David Harold Chilton (AD 1951 – AD 1997) - Jesus is “Michael”.

Milton Spenser Terry (AD 1840 - AD 1914) - Jesus is “Michael”.

George Whitefield - December 27 [O.S. December 16] 1714 – September 30, 1770) speaks by symbol, Jesus is our “Michael”.

James Petigru Boyce (AD 1827 – AD 1888) citing John Pye-Smith, Jesus is “probably” “Michael”.

The Rev Dr John Pye-Smith FRS, FGS (AD 25 May 1774 - AD 5 February 1851) - Jesus is “probably” “Michael”.

Christmas Evans (AD 25 December 1766 – AD 19 July 1838) – Jesus is “Michael”.

The Christian Gleaner and Domestic Magazine
The Christian Gleaner and Domestic Magazine for 1825, Volume II; London; published by B. J. Holdsworth, 18, St. Paul's Churchyard. – Jesus is “Michael”.

Carl Ferdinand Wilhelm Walther (AD October 25, 1811 – AD May 7, 1887) - Jesus is “Michael”.

John Gill (AD 23 November 1697 – AD 14 October 1771) – Jesus is “Michael”.

Charles Spurgeon (AD 9 June 1834 – AD 31 January 1892) Jesus is the “True Michael”.

Matthew Henry (AD 18 October 1662 – AD 22 June 1714) - Jesus is “Michael”.

Thomas Adams (AD 1583 – AD 1653) - Jesus is “Michael”.

Heinrich [Henry] Bullinger (AD 18 July 1504 – AD 17 September 1575) - Jesus is “Michael”.

Isaac Watts (AD 17 July 1674 – AD 25 November 1748) - Jesus is “Michael”.

William Kinkade (AD 22nd Sept. 1783 - AD 20th Sept. 1832) [became Arian later; Heresy] - Jesus is “Michael”.

Jonathan Edwards (AD October 5, 1703 – AD March 22, 1758) - Jesus is “Michael”.

1560/1599 Geneva Study Bible- Jesus is “Michael”.

John [Jean] Calvin (born Jehan Cauvin: AD 10 July 1509 – AD 27 May 1564) - Jesus is “Michael” and does not disagree with others who see the same.

Francois Du Jon aka Franciscus Junius (born François du Jon, AD 1 May 1545 – AD 13 October 1602) - Jesus is “Michael”.

John Wesley (AD 28 June [O.S. 17 June] 1703 – AD 2 March 1791) - Jesus is “Michael”.

John Brown of Haddington (AD 1722 – AD 19 June 1787) - Jesus is “Michael”.

James Wood (AD 1751 – AD 1840) - Jesus is “Michael”.

Ernst Wilhelm Theodor Herrmann Hengstenberg (AD October 20, 1802, Fröndenberg – AD May 28, 1869, Berlin- Jesus is “Michael”.

Wikipedia, The Online Encyclopedia – Michael (Archangel); subsection - “Protestant Views” – cites John A. Lees, and Hengstenberg, Jesus is “Michael”.

International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, comment on section “Michael” by John A. Lees. - Jesus is “Michael”.

John Bunyan (AD 28 November 1628 – AD 31 August 1688) - Jesus is “Michael”.

Henry Ainsworth (AD 1571 – AD 1622) - Jesus is “Michael”.

Thomas Watson (c. AD 1620 – AD 1686) - Jesus is “Michael”.

James Glasgow D.D. (AD 27 May 1805 – AD 1890 ) - Jesus is “Michael”.

James Hastings (AD 1852 – AD 1922) and George Cunninghame Monteath Douglas (AD 1826 – AD 1904- Jesus is “Michael”.

Thomas Hobbes Scott (17 April 1783 – 1 January 1860) - Jesus may indeed be “Michael” as “many” others say.

Hezekiah Holland (born ca. AD 1617, living AD 1660) - Jesus is “Michael”.

Adam Clarke (AD 1760 or AD 1762 – AD 1832) - Jesus is “Michael”.

George Balderston Kidd (Cottingham, near Hull, AD 28 July 1794 – AD 1852) - Jesus is “Michael”.

James Durham (AD 1622 – AD 1658) - Jesus is “Michael”.

Bryce Johnston (AD 1747 - AD 1805) - Jesus is “Michael”.

Vine's Expository Dictionary, by William Edwy Vine Section: "archangel” – the “archangels” “voice” is the “voice” of Jesus.

Thomas Haweis (AD 1 January 1734 - AD February 11, 1820) - Jesus is “Michael”.

Abingdon Bible Commentary, 1929; Editor, Edwin Lewis (AD 1881 – AD 1959) was an American Methodist theologian primarily associated with Drew University in New Jersey. Others involved - Frederick Carl Eiselen; David G. Downey. - Jesus is “Michael”.

Johann [John] Peter Lange (AD 10 April 1802 in Sonneborn (now a part of Wuppertal) – AD 9 July 1884), and Elijah Richard Craven (AD Mar. 28 1824, in Washington D.C. - AD Jan. 5 1908, in Philadelphia, Pa) - Jesus is “Michael”.

Thomas Robinson (AD 1813/14 - AD 1890) - Jesus is “Michael”.

Johann Friedrich Haug ((AD * 1680, AD † 18. May 1753) and The Berlenburger Bibel [aka 'Berleb. Bible', 'Berleburger Bibel', etc.] is in the years AD 1726 - AD 1742) - Jesus is “Michael”.

 

[ShinyGospelShoes]

1 minute ago, maryjayne said:

Do you believe Jesus is an Angel or not?

Jesus is "the Angel (messenger) of the LORD (the Father)" (as already cited, and many more texts can be given) uncreated and eternal Son of the Father, equal to the Father, submitted to the will of His Father.

The Son is not a created being of the angelic hosts.  He is the Creator of the created angelic hosts (ie, Gabriel, Lucifer, Cherub, Seraphim, etc), and is the Ruler (Prince, Arch) over them.  He is the one who is the express image of the person of the Father, He is Who is as God the Father is.

[saved34]

16 minutes ago, ShinyGospelShoes said:

Yes, not in question.  I didn't say you said otherwise.  I was making clear the distinction between Power and Will.

The Father is all powerful, but does not will satan to be destroyed yet.

The Son is equal with the Father, not in question.  Also all powerful.  He does the will of His Father.

Agreed. I’m going to bow out of this argument brother. I think you have been given significant truth on this matter. Anymore bickering on my end will just develop into foolish arguments. I’ll keep track of it but will not be replying anymore. God bless.

[ShinyGospelShoes]

1 minute ago, saved34 said:

Agreed. I’m going to bow out of this argument brother. I think you have been given significant truth on this matter. Anymore bickering on my end will just develop into foolish arguments. I’ll keep track of it but will not be replying anymore. God bless.

The Love of God an my love in Him go with you.

[ShinyGospelShoes]

4 minutes ago, maryjayne said:

thats clear - thank you.

I am interpreting your reply to me, quoted above,as meaning you believe Jesus is the Arch Angel Michael, as Michael isnt specified in your reply, and you mention Arch in relation to Jesus. Have I understood you correctly?

Yes.  You have understood correctly.  Michael is just another name/designation/title for the Son (Jesus), just as Immanuel, or David, or Adam, etc is.

For when I said: "... He is the one who is the express image of the person of the Father, He is Who is as God the Father is.", this is a reference to Hebrews 1:3, as well as Rev. 12:7; see also Exo. 15:11; 1 Kin. 8:23; Psa. 71:19; see also Deut. 33:26; 2 Chro. 6:14; Job 36:22; Psa. 35:10, 86:8, 89:8, 113:5; Jer. 10:6-7; Mic. 7:18.

Edited August 29, 2019 by ShinyGospelShoes

[ShinyGospelShoes]

2 minutes ago, maryjayne said:

Thank you for clarifying your belief.

No worries sister, any time.  If you have any other questions for me on this, let me know, and I will try to get back to you as I am able.  This subject is difficult for some, and I understand that, as I myself had to go through a worldview change when I was shown by the Holy Ghost in prayerful Bible study on it.  Took me some time.  God was patient with me, and so I ought to be with others.

[ShinyGospelShoes]

Some comparison for thought:

Dan 12:1  And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Luk 13:25  When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:

For when Jesus stands, probation closes, even as it had for the Jewish nation in AD 34:

Act 7:55  But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,

Act 7:56  And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

For another probation is soon to close, yes, for the whole world, even as it was in the days of Noe, when that door also closed:

Gen 7:16  And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the LORD shut him in.

Mat_24:37  But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Mat_24:38  For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

Luk_17:26  And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.

Just as it was in the days of Lot, when the angels shut the door and the LORD approached from the east:

Gen_19:10  But the men put forth their hand, and pulled Lot into the house to them, and shut to the door.

When Homosexuality and all uncleaness try to break into the Church and assault God's people, you know that the end is near, when you see Marriage (the first of the twin institutions of God from the beginning) assaulted and distorted then you know that the assault upon the second twin institution is to shortly follow ...

Rev_8:5  And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.

This fills the Heavenly sanctuary with smoke, so that no man can enter, until the 7 last plagues are poured out:

Rev 10:7  But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

Rev_22:11  He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

Jesus will "rise up", and cease His intercession, and come as King of Kings:

Isa_14:22  For I will rise up against them, saith the LORD of hosts, and cut off from Babylon the name, and remnant, and son, and nephew, saith the LORD.

Isa 28:21  For the LORD shall rise up as in mount Perazim, he shall be wroth as in the valley of Gibeon, that he may do his work, his strange work; and bring to pass his act, his strange act.

Psa_3:7  Arise, O LORD; save me, O my God: for thou hast smitten all mine enemies upon the cheek bone; thou hast broken the teeth of the ungodly.

Psa_7:6  Arise, O LORD, in thine anger, lift up thyself because of the rage of mine enemies: and awake for me to the judgment that thou hast commanded.

Psa_9:19  Arise, O LORD; let not man prevail: let the heathen be judged in thy sight.

Psa_10:12  Arise, O LORD; O God, lift up thine hand: forget not the humble.

Psa_12:5  For the oppression of the poor, for the sighing of the needy, now will I arise, saith the LORD; I will set him in safety from him that puffeth at him.

Psa_17:13  Arise, O LORD, disappoint him, cast him down: deliver my soul from the wicked, which is thy sword:

Psa_44:23  Awake, why sleepest thou, O Lord? arise, cast us not off for ever.

Psa_44:26  Arise for our help, and redeem us for thy mercies' sake.

Psa_68:1  To the chief Musician, A Psalm or Song of David. Let God arise, let his enemies be scattered: let them also that hate him flee before him.

Psa_74:22  Arise, O God, plead thine own cause: remember how the foolish man reproacheth thee daily.

Psa_82:8  Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.

Psa_102:13  Thou shalt arise, and have mercy upon Zion: for the time to favour her, yea, the set time, is come.

Psa_132:8  Arise, O LORD, into thy rest; thou, and the ark of thy strength.

Edited August 29, 2019 by ShinyGospelShoes