saved34 Posted September 7, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,185 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 667 Days Won: 3 Joined: 03/28/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/19/1971 Share Posted September 7, 2019 4 minutes ago, Justin Adams said: So what about the early church rants against the Jews? The prohibition of dealing with them and the absolute antisemitism of many 'austere' theologians You are talking about the visible church, and certain men. I am talking about the true church(invisible) consisting of all born again believers who call on God everywhere. Every ‘theologian’ did not rant against the Jews. Luther and Calvin had questionable doctrines in many more areas than antisemitism. Fortunately God had more than just those two in his Church as ‘theologians’. Why not blame the Crusades on the true Church as well? 15 minutes ago, Justin Adams said: Have you read the letters and publications of Calvin, Luther and may other so-called fathers of the faith. They hated Israel Again, I’m not one who believes old saints are any better than saints of today like many of our brothers and sisters. If that’s the case men like Hymenaeus and Philetus would be considered greats of the faith if they were alive today, even though they taught great error. God still had his saints who defended real truth in every era. You are talking about things that come naturally in man. Remember Peter separated himself from the believing Gentiles and Paul called him out on it? Gal 2:11 When Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned. Gal 2:12 For before certain men came from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles. But when they arrived, he began to draw back and separate himself from the Gentiles because he was afraid of those who belonged to the circumcision group. Gal 2:13 The other Jews joined him in his hypocrisy, so that by their hypocrisy even Barnabas was led astray. Gal 2:14 When I saw that they were not acting in line with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas in front of them all, "You are a Jew, yet you live like a Gentile and not like a Jew. How is it, then, that you force Gentiles to follow Jewish customs? You see how the truth is alway defended? Even Peter was called out and corrected for showing partiality and racism 33 minutes ago, Justin Adams said: There is literally reams of Heresy in church history Church history is not the Church I am referring to. Mat 16:18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Adams Posted September 7, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 25 Topic Count: 61 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 9,605 Content Per Day: 3.97 Reputation: 7,795 Days Won: 21 Joined: 09/11/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted September 7, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, saved34 said: And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. They were at the foot of Hermon where He had been transfigured. (where the incursion happened). 'On this rock (this place where we stand) I will build my church'. They were at 'Bashan' the gateway to the underworld. The gates of hell; and He said, ' the gates of hell will not withstand the church'. He was NOT talking about Peter. (the Peter thing is papist and completely wrong) We have to read and understand scripture in the light of the Tanach. Edited September 7, 2019 by Justin Adams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Adams Posted September 7, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 25 Topic Count: 61 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 9,605 Content Per Day: 3.97 Reputation: 7,795 Days Won: 21 Joined: 09/11/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted September 7, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, saved34 said: God still had his saints who defended real truth in every era No doubt He does. But 'truth' is NOT built on faulty old or new doctrines. If you build on one tiny bit of falsehood, your building will collapse. Look around at the so-called church. The Spirit left most of them a long time ago and many never had Holy Spirit, just the spirit of man. Check out the SUN-day stuff and why Sabbath was banned and despised. It is all there if we care to look. See how we have adopted pagan rites and times as if it were no small thing to insult the Lord High God. And not every theologian was against the Hebrews, however, they often adopted faulty ideas of those that were. They stripped the scriptures of their supernatural emphasis and so proclaimed anything and everything that sounded good to them. Where have you read of God's Council and the Throne of the Ancient of days? Where have you seen the whole counsel of God? Ezekiel's account of the Yeshua/Jesus man-person talking to the the One that sits on the throne, Who told Him to come and share it with Him. Likewise, we are invited to sit beside Yeshua on His throne. Where has your doctrine put Psalm 82 and Deut 32 and Isiah 16 and Jeremiah 1, Daniel etc. Have we not heard, have we not seen? Yes, even the stars proclaimed the Birth of the Messiah. Even the Magi saw that (without a computer or modern star-charts). Edited September 7, 2019 by Justin Adams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saved34 Posted September 7, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,185 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 667 Days Won: 3 Joined: 03/28/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/19/1971 Share Posted September 7, 2019 2 hours ago, Justin Adams said: They were at the foot of Hermon where He had been transfigured. (where the incursion happened). 'On this rock (this place where we stand) I will build my church'. They were at 'Bashan' the gateway to the underworld. The gates of hell; and He said, ' the gates of hell will not withstand the church'. He was NOT talking about Peter. (the Peter thing is papist and completely wrong) We have to read and understand scripture in the light of the Tanach. Ok brother you are creating an argument for no reason. I never once said our Lord built his Church on Peter. Further more the Church I’m speaking of are all those who are baptized in one body by the Holy Spirit, not some local Church. The true Church is built upon the death, burial and resurrection of the Christ. We all as living stones growing into a strong temple of the Lord. Eph 2:19 Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God's people and also members of his household, Eph 2:20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. Eph 2:21 In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord. I’m not talking about church pews, brother. Further more I gave the fundamental doctrines I was talking about. Virgin birth, the precious blood atonement, the humanity and deity of Christ, etc. I posted Peter’s own racism because you interjected Luther and Calvin as if no one opposed them. The true Church will never fail, the local church is headed to apostasy. I’m not a catholic and I do not believe in popes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Adams Posted September 7, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 25 Topic Count: 61 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 9,605 Content Per Day: 3.97 Reputation: 7,795 Days Won: 21 Joined: 09/11/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted September 7, 2019 (edited) 33 minutes ago, saved34 said: I posted Peter’s own racism because you interjected Luther and Calvin as if no one opposed them. The true Church will never fail, the local church is headed to apostasy. I’m not a catholic and I do not believe in popes. It is God's church. And we do not have much to do with it if we are called into it. Just being faithful, believing and walking humbly, loving mercy and justice. God will not fail. He has no plan 'b'. It is the whole enchilada until the very end. P.s. very few doctrines do oppose Luther, Calvin, Augustine etc... that is sad. 33 minutes ago, saved34 said: Church I’m speaking of are all those who are baptized in one body by the Holy Spirit Sounds good to me. You have been clear and it is right to be so. Blessings, and may you stay with the Spirit of Prophesy forever. Edited September 7, 2019 by Justin Adams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saved34 Posted September 7, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,185 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 667 Days Won: 3 Joined: 03/28/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/19/1971 Share Posted September 7, 2019 8 minutes ago, Justin Adams said: It is God's church. And we do not have much to do with it if we are called into it. Just being faithful, believing and walking humbly, loving mercy and justice. God will not fail. He has no plan 'b'. It is the whole enchilada until the very end. P.s. very few doctrines do oppose Luther, Calvin, Augustine etc... that is sad. Sounds good to me. You have been clear and it is right to be so. Blessings, and may you stay with the Spirit of Prophesy forever. Amen brother. I personally will never read Calvin or Augustine. Luther’s work on Galatians is maybe the best I ever read, but I have read of his misguided teachings against the Jews. Very tragic. If he was truly saved(which I believe to be true) he is going to have a lot of wood, hay and stubble to be burnt up before the judgement seat of Christ. 1Co 3:10 By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as a wise builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should build with care. 1Co 3:11 For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. 1Co 3:12 If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 1Co 3:13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person's work. 1Co 3:14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. 1Co 3:15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames. May God have mercy on us all as we teach and admonish each other. We had better be very careful what we do and say. I know he is regretting ever teaching such hateful filth at this point. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Mclees Posted September 8, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 158 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 1,915 Content Per Day: 0.80 Reputation: 910 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/15/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted September 8, 2019 (edited) To some up the point most believers see the Bible as God,s word and being inherent. In a world or society that lives by the flesh is not to be trusted when it comes to God. "There is a way that seemeth right to a man but the end there of is death". (2nd death) Many may say they believe in God but if there life does not reflect that faith his words are empty. but this sad to say is the world I say these things because as believers we trust God rather than men. Can scripture be manipulated. Yes! We see the word of God is truth and is the only way one can be led by truth. Therefore all scripture must coincide in agreement from beginning to end. I f one formulate a doctrine seemingly scriptural but there are other scripture that conflicts with it is no doctrine. You cannot divide scripture and still have truth. one has to be heresie. Edited September 8, 2019 by Mike Mclees Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnthebaptist Posted September 8, 2019 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 6 Topic Count: 118 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 4,361 Content Per Day: 2.31 Reputation: 2,109 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/25/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/03/1953 Share Posted September 8, 2019 On 9/4/2019 at 8:34 AM, Mike Mclees said: About a week ago the subject of heretics was a concern on the board Among established churches what is heresy ? There are no perfect churches, I don't believe, so technically they could all be called heretics. Otherwise, I would say none that I know of. Some might be better than others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Mclees Posted September 8, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 158 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 1,915 Content Per Day: 0.80 Reputation: 910 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/15/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted September 8, 2019 1 hour ago, johnthebaptist said: There are no perfect churches, I don't believe, so technically they could all be called heretics. Otherwise, I would say none that I know of. Some might be better than others. Actually I was talking about a doctrine in particular that is not in full agreement with scripture as being heresy. Reason is, all scripture must be in agreement otherwise it takes advantage of less mature believers. We see this in Rome, but this false doctrine is in the protestant group. That is not meaning all protestant churches. How ever it grew out of the Reformation by misinterpretation of scripture. We are believers as previously stated believing that all scripture agrees or the doctrine is not a true doctrine. This is dividing the church which we were warned against. This is not the only heretical invented doctrine among denominations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnthebaptist Posted September 9, 2019 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 6 Topic Count: 118 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 4,361 Content Per Day: 2.31 Reputation: 2,109 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/25/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/03/1953 Share Posted September 9, 2019 7 minutes ago, Mike Mclees said: Actually I was talking about a doctrine in particular that is not in full agreement with scripture as being heresy. Reason is, all scripture must be in agreement otherwise it takes advantage of less mature believers. We see this in Rome, but this false doctrine is in the protestant group. That is not meaning all protestant churches. How ever it grew out of the Reformation by misinterpretation of scripture. We are believers as previously stated believing that all scripture agrees or the doctrine is not a true doctrine. This is dividing the church which we were warned against. This is not the only heretical invented doctrine among denominations. There are those who would argue that Paul was not reflecting God's view in the matter of women speaking in church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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