What Noah Could Have Said But Didn't

[Fisher of Men]

2 Tim. 4:

14 Alexander the coppersmith did me much evil: the Lord reward him according to his works:

15 Of whom be thou ware also; for he hath greatly withstood our words.

It is not necessarily wrong to name those guilty and to warn others of them.

2 John 1:

9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:

11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

It is not necessarily wrong to label someone as not having God (verse 9) because they abide not in the doctrine of Christ.

3 John 1:

9 I wrote unto the church: but Diotrephes, who loveth to have the preeminence among them, receiveth us not.

10 Wherefore, if I come, I will remember his deeds which he doeth, prating against us with malicious words: and not content therewith, neither doth he himself receive the brethren, and forbiddeth them that would, and casteth them out of the church.

11 Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God.

2 Cor. 10:

8 For though I should boast somewhat more of our authority, which the Lord hath given us for edification, and not for your destruction, I should not be ashamed:

9 That I may not seem as if I would terrify you by letters.

10 For his letters, say they, are weighty and powerful; but his bodily presence is weak, and his speech contemptible.

11 Let such an one think this, that, such as we are in word by letters when we are absent, such will we be also in deed when we are present.

Paul was accused of writing weighty letters as if to terrify them. It wasn't done in pride or maliciousness as some may have accused him. It was done to edify.

2 Cor. 13:10

10 Therefore I write these things being absent, lest being present I should use sharpness, according to the power which the Lord hath given me to edification, and not to destruction.

My motive for expressing disdain for the heresy that works are not part of justification/salvation as James plainly said they are, is to edify; to awaken the sleeping to come to the simplicity of the gospel; repent or perish; abide in him and bear fruit thereby or be burnt, John 10.

There are those who have been edified and there are those who have been offended.

By our words (a work) we will be justified and by our words we will be condemned.

Isn't it therefore important that we order our conversation aright so that we will be shown his salvation and not be condemned for not keeping our heart with all diligence and for not yielding to him to keep the doors of our mouth?

Even here we see our salvation hinging (either justifed or condemned) on whether or not we yield to Him to do what we should.

Tess, that is what the redemptive properties of the Gospel are all about. "Through Jesus Christ" denotes the means he has made available for us to be saved from sin to escape having to pay the wages of sin. What is that means?

Always bearing about in our bodies the dying of the Lord Jesus that His life might be made manifest in us: believing in his purpose for dying for us and adopting an attitude conducive to that purpose.

A child of God who has been corrupted from the mindset that his works do in fact have bearing on his ultimate salvation will have an attitude not acceptable to God and which will effect his behaviour.

The child of God who has not been so corrupted holds an attitude of godly fear and caution of what he does and as a father to a son who he delights in, revelation of more truth will be granted. And though he may occasionally fall, his repentance is more heart felt and fervent as he doesn't have the defiled attitude as though his works cannot effect his salvation.

The fear of God is clean.

We obey him not only out of love but also out of the realization of consequences for not serving him, which realization is the clean fear of God.

This fear and loving him go hand in hand.

Jesus himself strongly exhorted us to fear Him. He said this in relation to our decision of actions we make. Satan can use fear to cause us to denounce Christ:

Luke 12:

4 And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do.

5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

6 Are not five sparrows sold for two farthings, and not one of them is forgotten before God?

7 But even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear not therefore: ye are of more value than many sparrows.

8 Also I say unto you, Whosoever shall confess me before men, him shall the Son of man also confess before the angels of God:

9 But he that denieth me before men shall be denied before the angels of God.

So again we see works having bearing on whether or not we will be ultimately saved.

ALL of the attempted uses of scripture to contradict this simplicity of the gospel are a misuse of scripture and which it is not incorrect to call ignorance as Peter was merciful to the Jews who had killed their own Messiah by realising that they did it through ignorance.

Edited July 9, 2005 by Fisher of Men

[RGR]

By our words (a work) we will be justified

No, sir, I am justified by the shed blood of Christ!

[Fisher of Men]

Matt. 12

33 Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.

34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.

35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.

36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.

37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

By our words (a work) we will be justified

No, sir, I am justified by the shed blood of Christ! rolleyes.gif

When someone is justified by the shed blood of Christ, this means they have accepted the NT on his terms and have therefore repented, prayed, been baptised and received the Holy Ghost, (not necessarily in that order). All this is accredited to grace working through that individual through faith in the Gospels commandments.

So yes, the shed blood of Christ is the cause for our right standing with God (justification). And as the shed blood of Christ further effects us to continue in His word and thereby be his disciple indeed we will read the necessity to yield to Him to only let our conversation be as is becoming to the gospel of Christ.

We will yield to this as we will know that by our words we shall be justified, and by our words we will be condemned.

Edited July 9, 2005 by Fisher of Men

[RGR]

Matt. 12

33  Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.

34  O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.

35  A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.

36  But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.

37  For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

By our words (a work) we will be justified

No, sir, I am justified by the shed blood of Christ! rolleyes.gif

When someone is justified by the shed blood of Christ, this means they have accepted the NT on his terms and have therefore repented, prayed, been baptised and received the Holy Ghost, (not necessarily in that order). All this is accredited to grace working through that individual through faith in the Gospels commandments.

So yes, the shed blood of Christ is the cause for our right standing with God (justification). And as the shed blood of Christ further effects us to continue in His word and thereby be his disciple indeed we will read the necessity to yield to Him to only let our conversation be as is becoming to the gospel of Christ.

We will yield to this as we will know that by our words we shall be justified, and by our words we will be condemned.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So I and anyone who disagrees with you is now a generation of vipers?

That series of verses doesn't even apply to Christians! Really, you need to check things out a bit closer before you post. He was talking to the Pharisees! You don't show yourself too versed in theology.

Again, don't take my word for it, but if you truly believe the Apostle Paul, we'll let him show you erroneous thinking:

Romans 5:16 The gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned; for on the one hand the judgment arose from one transgression resulting in condemnation, but on the other hand the free gift arose from many transgressions resulting in justification. NASB

So Paul says it's a free gift resulting in our justification!

Let's go back just a bit and look at what else Paul said:

Romans 5:1-3 NASB 1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom also we have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand; and we exult in hope of the glory of God.

Nothing about works!!!! FAITH!!!!!!! If it were by works, Paul would have said we were justified thereby!!!!

Romans 5:10  For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

Again, nothing about works!

Romans 5:15 But the free gift is not like the transgression. For if by the transgression of the one the  many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many.

What do you work for? Wages or a gift? If your boss hands you your paycheck, it's not a gift, now is it? If someone hands you $100 for no reason, even considering you don't deserve it, it's a gift-you did nothing to work for it.

John 14:12 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do, he will do also; and greater works than these he will do; because I go to the Father.

The works FOLLOW the believing!!!!! What's so hard to understand here?

[Fisher of Men]

Just because something is free doesn't mean that there isn't anything necessary for you to do in order to get that which was freely given to you.

Imagine you standing in line at a bank waiting to fill out the necessary paperwork on a million dollars that was freely given you.

Imagine now someone approaching you and saying, "what are you doing in line? It's free so it doesn't require you to do anything! Man are you deceived, you think that you can earn the million dollars by standing in this line. Don't you know that if it is a free gift you don't have to do anything to earn it?"

Our reasonable service is to do what he says we must do morally in our day to day living. That is like waiting in line to receive the promise of eternal life of being changed from a corruptible body into an incorruptible body at his return.

The false Christians are those who approach us as we wait in line and accuse us of being deceived for being there. They accuse us of trying to earn salvation when in reality we are only doing our reasonable service necessary in order to get that which has been freely given.

So what happens when the person in line is deceived by the false prophets and gets out of line?

Would you be silly enough to heed the foolish counsel and get out of line and so forfeit the free gift of a million dollars?

Working out our own salvation by fear and trembling is done by simply making sure we stay in that line so we can inherit that which is promised.

Noah's day to day labour of building the ark was his line so to speak. By staying in line he maintained a good conscience as he was working out his own salvation.

Php. 2:

12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

[WayneB]

Just because something is free doesn't mean that there isn't anything necessary for you to do in order to get that which was freely given to you.

Imagine you standing in line at a bank waiting to fill out the necessary paperwork on a million dollars that was freely given you.

Imagine now someone approaching you and saying, "what are you doing in line? It's free so it doesn't require you to do anything! Man are you deceived, you think that you can earn the million dollars by standing in this line. Don't you know that if it is a free gift you don't have to do anything to earn it?"

Our reasonable service is to do what he says we must do morally in our day to day living. That is like waiting in line to receive the promise of eternal life of being changed from a corruptible body into an incorruptible body at his return.

The false Christians are those who approach us as we wait in line and accuse us of being deceived for being there. They accuse us of trying to earn salvation when in reality we are only doing our reasonable service necessary in order to get that which has been freely given.

So what happens when the person in line is deceived by the false prophets and gets out of line?

Would you be silly enough to heed the foolish counsel and get out of line and so forfeit the free gift of a million dollars?

Working out our own salvation by fear and trembling is done by simply making  sure we stay in that line so we can inherit that which is promised.

Noah's day to day labour of building the ark was his line so to speak. By staying in line he maintained a good conscience as he was working out his own salvation.

Php. 2:

12  Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

13  For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Now a person must stand in line to receive Jesus Christ as Lord & Savior and secure his salvation? What???? What happened when Noah fell into drunkenness? Did he lose his place in line????

Fisher, you are wrong when you say that some will be edified and the rest will be offended. I am neither edified or offended by your words. What I am is concerned that you are twisting the TRUTH and may mislead some new to the FAITH into thinking that they can somehow earn their salvation. Even the Scripture you posted above makes it clear that it is GOD working in us. Praise HIM!! ...not yourself!

I am closing this thread...and will delete any new threads started to push a works based doctrine as I see them. We have politely tolerated your jabs (now you call us "false Christians"?) and false teaching but no more. You are free to promote whatever false doctrine you want on your own boards but not here. We stand by our Statement of Faith.

I will leave the thread visible because I think that any believer will be able to read it in its entirety and see the TRUTH as the Holy Spirit leads them.

May the Lord Bless you richly,

Wayne

[Ovedya]

For the record, I agree with Saved by Grace.

[traveller]

And for the record, so do I.

[IslandRose]

And for the record, so do I.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Amen!

[Matthitjah]

And for the record, so do I.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Amen!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Here, here. I agree.