Jesus Christ "parousia."

[JoeCanada]

13 hours ago, charlesj said:

Someone wrote in our church wrote on the 70 Weeks of Daniel that I want to share with you...

Daniel's Seventy Weeks

by Jeffrey W. Hamilton

"Now while I was speaking, praying, and confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel, and presenting my supplication before the LORD my God for the holy mountain of my God, yes, while I was speaking in prayer, the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, reached me about the time of the evening offering. And he informed me, and talked with me, and said, "O Daniel, I have now come forth to give you skill to understand. At the beginning of your supplications the command went out, and I have come to tell you, for you are greatly beloved; therefore consider the matter, and understand the vision: Seventy weeks are determined for your people and for your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sins, to make reconciliation for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the Most Holy. Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the command to restore and build Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince, there shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublesome times. And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself; and the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end of it shall be with a flood, and till the end of the war desolations are determined. Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; but in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, even until the consummation, which is determined, is poured out on the desolate."" (Daniel 9:20-27).

 

Hi charlesj,

Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the command to restore and build Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince, there shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublesome times. And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself; and the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end of it shall be with a flood, and till the end of the war desolations are determined. Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; but in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, even until the consummation, which is determined, is poured out on the desolate.

Ok, let's look at this. From the going forth of the command......UNTIL Messiah the Prince...... there shall be seven weeks and sixth-two weeks. That's 483 years. But then you throw in......."in the midst of the seventieth week", which is 3 1/2 years, Christ was crucified. That only leaves 3 1/2 years. How then, can you stretch 3 1/2 years remaining all the way to AD 70?.................that's another 40 years, which is nearly 6 more 7's!

" Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week"............... This is after the 7 and 62 weeks. It seems that you are implying that Jesus is the one who confirms a covenant with many for ONE WEEK. (Yet, we read in scripture that the new covenant is an everlasting covenant.)............How can Jesus make or confirm a covenant with the many AFTER He has been crucified..... a covenant that lasts for only ONE WEEK (7 years)???

Jesus explains this portion of the prophecy in Matthew 24:1-34,....

Now that's a real stretch. There are way too many events in Matthew 24 that never were fulfilled in 70 AD.

I'll keep my responses short and end with that.

[charlesj]

10 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

Hi charlesj,

Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the command to restore and build Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince, there shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublesome times. And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself; and the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end of it shall be with a flood, and till the end of the war desolations are determined. Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; but in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, even until the consummation, which is determined, is poured out on the desolate.

Ok, let's look at this. From the going forth of the command......UNTIL Messiah the Prince...... there shall be seven weeks and sixth-two weeks. That's 483 years. But then you throw in......."in the midst of the seventieth week", which is 3 1/2 years, Christ was crucified. That only leaves 3 1/2 years. How then, can you stretch 3 1/2 years remaining all the way to AD 70?.................that's another 40 years, which is nearly 6 more 7's!

" Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week"............... This is after the 7 and 62 weeks. It seems that you are implying that Jesus is the one who confirms a covenant with many for ONE WEEK. (Yet, we read in scripture that the new covenant is an everlasting covenant.)............How can Jesus make or confirm a covenant with the many AFTER He has been crucified..... a covenant that lasts for only ONE WEEK (7 years)???

Jesus explains this portion of the prophecy in Matthew 24:1-34,....

Now that's a real stretch. There are way too many events in Matthew 24 that never were fulfilled in 70 AD.

I'll keep my responses short and end with that.

Hello Joe:

I want you to know I've spent hours answering you.  LOL

Please read Daniel 9:25-27 below: This is a prophecy given to the prophet Daniel by the angel Gabriel around 600 years before Christ came on earth and the prophecy was fulfilled.

 Daniel 9:25-27  "So you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; it will be built again, with plaza and moat, even in times of distress.  Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. And its end will come with a flood; even to the end there will be war; desolations are determined.  And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate.”

This decree concerns the rebuilding of the city of Jerusalem.  Gabriel was speaking to Daniel.  Gabriel spoke of 70 weeks total. 

The first period of seven weeks (49 years) was evidently to be characterized by something different from that which would follow, or it would reach an important point.  (Each week is 7 years)

Then would follow a continuous period of 62 weeks, (7 + 62 weeks=69) and afterward would be the remaining week when the nation of Israel would come to its end time.  This would complete a total of 70 weeks. 

Notice the chronology of events below. 

1. It is assumed by many scholars that King Artaxerxes gave the commission to Ezra to write the law.  Admittedly, Ezra was a priest and scribe, but where is the verse that states that Artaxerxes commissioned him to establish that law?  According to scriptures, it was Ezra’s intent to establish the law before the decree was issued.  The king’s decree amounted to giving of silver and gold to purchase bulls, rams, and lambs.  All silver and gold left over could be spent on whatever Ezra chose.
2. Verse 20 – The king tells Ezra that the rest of the needs for the house of God should be shared by royal treasure and free-will offerings of the people.  When has any city been rebuilt without the aid of silver and gold?
3. Nehemiah was commissioned by Artaxerxes to go to Jerusalem.  In Neh. 2:5, Nehemiah asks permission to go and rebuild the city, and for letters to the governors of the provinces asking them to furnish him with the proper timber to make the repairs.  Thus the phrase of Nehemiah “That I may rebuild it” fits the description issued by Gabriel.  But 2:16 indicates that the work had already begun, but for some reason had halted;  it further indicates that Nehemiah was chosen by God as a leader of the workmen and, as the one chosen by God to finish the work.  There is no room for assumption in the matter.  If we choose he commission by Artaxerxes and Nehemiah, we best fit the decree described by Gabriel.  When the date is reckoned with, we find no little problem.  We will not go into the many historical calendars of that day, but when we recognize that this is a Jewish date and their calendar must be considered, we will arrive at about 453 for the issue of the decree.
4. The work on the house of God had been halted, perhaps by the same people who tried to stop Nehemiah, and Nehemiah went down in the face of danger and repaired the gates and walls.  This gave the people faith to finish the work on the temple.  If true, then seven weeks or 49 years was allotted to finish the work on the temple, at which time the expiration date would have been 405 B.C.  Then would have begun the sixty-two weeks or 434 years, and the period would have expired in AD 30, about the time Christ was baptized.  The scripture says, “and after this the Messiah would be cut off and have nothing.”  At the expiration of the 434 years would be the last and most important week, the one where the Messiah would stop the sacrifice in the middle of that week, or three and one-half years.  Christ would be offered on the cross as the last legal sacrifice under the Law of Moses. Hebrews 9:26.
5. Observations:

a.   Some has willfully ignored the truth of Daniel and has used error to scare unlearned people into a particular belief.

b.   The Church of our Lord in failing to teach the book of Daniel has allowed many of its members to fall into the millennial hog pen.  And now the church has waited too long to teach Daniel that, when the truth is presented, one is almost put in the class of false teachers.

c.   Let us remember that Christ Himself was classed among the false teachers of His day, and even murdered for His teaching.  What is our reputation compared to His life?

d.   There is a pressing need for Daniel to be studied and taught in the church today.  The whole of the New Testament is a commentary on Daniel, especially the book of Revelation.  Compare the visions of John with the sum of the visions of Daniel. Remember that Daniel was not allowed to write some of the visions he saw, but was told by the angel they would be sealed up until the end time of Israel, where is the book that does?

VERSE 26.  “Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah shall be cut off.” 

The phase “after the 62 weeks” means that after the first seven weeks expired, the 62 weeks would begin, and after the 62 weeks expired, the Messiah would be cut off; He would die.  As stated before, the expiration of this sixty-two week period would be AD 30.  We are now concerned with events that should occur in the latter portion of the 69 weeks (7 + 62= 69), and the beginning of the last and final week, 70th week.

1. During the latter portion of the 69 weeks, Christ was born, John came as His forerunner, Mal. 4:5-6 Elijah of Malachi was John the Immerser, Matt 11:11-14.  This is the “last days” spoken of in the Old Testament, referring to the period from the coming of Christ in birth, until He came back in the destruction of Jerusalem.
2. During the expiration of 69 weeks, Christ would come to John to be baptized by him.  The coming of the Spirit of God upon Christ at this point would confirm the beginning of the last week.  In every case there are notable events that inaugurate a new epoch.  And no greater even was present than when God confirmed His Son by sending the Spirit upon Him in the form of a dove and speaking from heaven.  And beside this, there was the administration of baptism, a purification which the Jews expected to be practiced in the Last Days in preparation for the coming of the Messiah and His Kingdom (see Ezek 36:25 and Mal. 3:1-4) These things confirm that the last week of the seventy weeks had begun.
3. In the middle of the week, Christ would be tried by the Jews, rejected, and condemned to die on the cross.  His sacrificial death put a stop to sacrifice.  The fair meaning is that Christ, at the cross, would legally end the Law of Moses where sacrifice was required.  By shedding of His blood, Christ would purchase the kingdom, Acts 20:28, and by His blood the last sacrifice would be offered.  Not only does this confirm the words of Gabriel, it confirms the New Covenant.  This is not to say that sacrifice was not offered in the temple at Jerusalem, for it continued there until the temple was destroyed in AD 70.  Paul made the sacrifice there, Acts 21.  Actually, sacrifice as not needed, for the last sacrifice had already been made and the New Covenant established.  It shows the longsuffering of God, when He gave the nation of Israel almost forty years after the death of the Son to merge into Christianity before bringing destruction to the temple.

VERS 27. “And He will make a firm Covenant with many for one week, but in the middle of the week H will put a stop to sacrifice.”  As has been stated for v. 26, this week began with the baptism of Christ, and continued for three and one-half years in which He taught the New Covenant (the gospel about the Kingdom). At the expiration of three and one-half years,  He would put an end to sacrifice by offering by offering Himself as a full payment for man’s sin guilt.  Only one who was sinless could offer Himself for our redemption.. No mere man could offer it.  This testifies to the Deity of Christ and to the exclusiveness o he Christian faith as a source for true salvation. No other Name can offer real atonement.  Beginning with Adam and Eve (e.g. the skins used to cover their nakedness) and throughout the Old Testament, the sacrifices symbolic of the Coming One whose sacrificial death would redeem man from condemnation and separation from God’s fellowship, and cover their sins. 

“And on the wings of abominations will come one who makes desolate even until a complete destruction.”

Jesus said, “do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword” (destruction)  Therefore, we see the balance of the last week beginning when the Holy Spirit is poured out upon the twelve, and the teaching of Christ goes forth.

A question is asked at this point:  What was the main subject at this point:  What was the main subject of His teaching, since He states that He came to bring a sword, or destruction?  The fair meaning is that all the visions of Daniel would here begin to be fulfilled respecting the end time of His people.  We find all the epistles filled with the passing of Israel and the established divine religion of Christ, Christianity, surpassing Judaism as the universal religion.

As we make an overview of Israel from the time they came under the rule of Rome until this period of the last week, we notice that Israel came under the protection or rule, of Rome when Pompey in 63 B.D. brought this nation under his control.  He became the sole ruler of Rome, thus becoming Daniel’s first horn.

Daniel’s vision concerned the period from the conquest of Israel until the nation was destroyed.  This makes Pompey Daniel’s first horn and Vespasian the eleventh. 

Many scholars have tried for many years to make the horns of Daniel and of John fit in perfect order, which makes the book of Revelation a late composition and setting its vision in the future.  We have lost sight of the purpose of the visions.  They concerned only Daniel’s people.

From that time the apostles began to teach, they went first and always to the Jew, relating the abolishment of Judaism in favor of Christianity.  On the wings of this testimony by the Holy Spirit the desolation began, a desolation that continued on the wings of abomination until Jerusalem and the temple became a complete destruction.  This confirmed the kingdom of Christ in just the same way that the resurrection confirmed Christ as being the Son of God, Romans 1:4.

Now, I will move to the destruction itself.  Gabriel tells Daniel it will be a COMPLETE DESTRUCTION, Dan 9:27; Zechariah tells us Christ will return in that destruction and will gather all the nations against Jerusalem for battle, Zech 14:1-4  “Behold, a day is coming for the Lord when the spoil taken from you will be divided among you. For I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem to battle, and the city will be captured, the houses plundered, the women ravished and half of the city exiled, but the rest of the people will not be cut off from the city. Then the Lord will go forth and fight against those nations, as when He fights on a day of battle. In that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which is in front of Jerusalem on the east; and the Mount of Olives will be split in its middle from east to west by a very large valley, so that half of the mountain will move toward the north and the other half toward the south…”

Malachi spoke of this as God preparing a day when He would burn the chaff and save the righteous, when they would skip about in the stall as fat calves, Mal 4:2. Joel spoke of the church age and related the return of Christ to this even, Joel 2:31 (quoted by Peter in Acts 2:20).

Jesus said He would return to reward the unbelieving Jews with revenge:  “…    For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and will then repay every man according to his deeds. Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.” Matthew 16:27,28 and again in Matthew 23:34-36 “…Therefore, behold, I am sending you prophets and wise men and scribes; some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city, so that upon you may fall the guilt of all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. Truly I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.”  

Matthew 26:64 “…Jesus said to him, “You have said it yourself; nevertheless I tell you, hereafter you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of Power, and coming (Greek: parousia) on the clouds of heaven.”  (This “Parousia” means Christ’s presence, it does not mean “His coming to earth.”  Christ will NEVER come back to this earth.)

Also, Luke 21:30-32 “…    when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near. Then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains, and those who are in the midst of the city must leave, and those who are in the country must not enter the city; because these are days of vengeance, so that all things which are written will be fulfilled. Woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days; for there will be great distress upon the land and wrath to this people; and they will fall by the edge of the sword, and will be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled under foot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. There will be signs in sun and moon and stars, and on the earth dismay among nations, in perplexity at the roaring of the sea and the waves, men fainting from fear and the expectation of the things which are coming upon the world; for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. But when these things begin to take place, straighten up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near. Then He told them a parable: “Behold the fig tree and all the trees; as soon as they put forth leaves, you see it and know for yourselves that summer is now near. So you also, when you see these things happening, recognize that the kingdom of God is near. Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all things take place.” 

Matthew 10:23 “…But whenever they persecute you in one city, flee to the next; for truly I say to you, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel until the Son of Man comes.”  He came (Parousia) in AD 70.  Matthew 10:23 almost set the date for His return and this great destruction of Israel.

Daniel sees this event occurring during the period of the eleventh horn, (Emperor Vespasion) the time Ancient of Days would come in judgment, Dan 7:21, 22.  “…    I kept looking, and that horn was waging war with the saints and overpowering them until the Ancient of Days came and judgment was passed in favor of the saints of the Highest One, and the time arrived when the saints took possession of the kingdom.”

The saints would be given into the hands of the horn “and they will be given into his hands for a time, times and a half time.” (3 1/2 years).

Time, times and a half time: (3 ½ years)

1. All the visions pertained to Daniel’s people.  From the visions themselves we learn that there was a time element involved which began the conquest of that nation by Pompey  in 63 B.C.  It began with the first horn who would rule over them, and moved through time until they were destroyed by the eleventh horn, Vespasian. (And his son General Titus in A.D. 70.)
2. If Daniel 7:25 was rendered as three and a half years it would not conflict with Revelation 12.  Almost everyone admits this refers to the church during the siege against Jerusalem.  In v. 14 the church was carried away into the wilderness to be nourished by God for a time, times, and a half time. (3 ½ years)

 

I conclude that Gabriel related to Daniel the FULL DESTRUCTION of Israel as a nation and their religion, and further that all the visions of Daniel would be fulfilled at the end time of that nation which came at the hands of Vespasian in A.D.70.  Paul states the people were in the tribulation during the time of his writing of 1 Thes 3:4.  John declared in Rev 1:1-3 that the things written in the Book were to take place “shortly” and the time “was near.” Then John declares in Rev 1:9 “I John your brother in tribulation and in the kingdom…”  John was in this tribulation during and around A.D. 70.

Both scriptures and history verify a tribulation for the Jewish Christians beginning AD 66.  On the “wings of his tribulation came the one who was to make the final destruction to the nation of Israel.  Thus the vision of Daniel finds its fulfillment in this period, Dan 12.1; Matthew 24:21. 

Any questions?  Charles, cjemeyson@satx.rr.com