DeighAnn Posted January 31, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 6,301 Content Per Day: 3.63 Reputation: 1,658 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/31/2019 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 31, 2020 5 hours ago, Jostler said: I think terms get confusing. Every spirit God creates, and every soul possessed by any spirit, is "everlasting". Mortality applies to anything that remains subject to death. The choice in His economy is not between consciousness and obliteration. It's a choice between everlasting LIFE, and everlasting DEATH. Really searching out the two specific kinds of death and understanding precisely as the Bible portrays them, understanding which applies to spirit and which applies to flesh, and realizing that neither Biblical death involves unconsciousness or cessation of existence, resolves every one of these issues. Definitely on different sides here. I don't think God is vindictive and forever without hope of relief in torment and sorrow feels like that to me. He wants us to chose life, chose Him, but an everlasting hell because someone is not capable of that? Even satan turns to ashes from within. But where I find comfort and get this belief is from these verses. Revelation 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. This is the end of an age. This is the beginning of the new age Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. Revelation 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. Revelation 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. Revelation 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. Revelation 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. So my belief will remain that the lake of fire goes away with the beginning of the new age. I don't see how there could be any peace for any soul knowing that there were others in a state of continual torment. I can see no benefit or need to torture forever anyone because they didn't love me or just weren't good people. I also may see this different, but until I am in the new age and I see it, I won't believe it. I also read this as a description of a complete blotting out of life, having blown out a candle and watched the smoke just go up and disappear. It brings me peace. Revelation 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, Revelation 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: Revelation 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. I believe the "rest" they never receive is the rest that only life lived in the love of God can bring. I have experienced the complete and absolute betrayal by those closest to me, the emotional and physical pain that evil can suddenly bring about, and still I find no comfort in any thought of them in eternal suffering, I look for nothing past them being blotted out if somehow they live their whole lives never knowing the love of God. The thought of eternal suffering only brings me more pain. Why keep reminders of those horrible people who have no love of God or others. I like the thought of it all being done and over with and a new place where God rules and goodness is the order of the day. I can only pray God sees it the same. My God, with all He has created clearly seen in the perfection and beauty that surrounds me everyday, who created puppies and kittens and a just God just doesn't seem capable of such, to me. If I am wrong, I will deal with it then but until then these are the thoughts and feelings I keep. You know, up until I wrote this I did not realize I had come to this kind of forgiveness. I had prayed for the Lord to take it from me, to accept that vengeance was His, not mine to even ponder on, and I realized, yet another prayer answered. Thank you. Praise ye the Lord and I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WordSword Posted January 31, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 168 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,161 Content Per Day: 0.24 Reputation: 644 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/07/2010 Status: Online Share Posted January 31, 2020 7 hours ago, DeighAnn said: Good Evening, mortal to me means - liable to die. Whether in this body or the next have yet to receive eternal life. On the wrong side of the gulf. Don't know if part of the first resurrection or not. I see that yes, we do have a different understanding of one or two of the fundamentals. Does that change anything right now? Not that I can tell. For me I see it as God created all souls. All souls have spirits. Some have good spirits, just naturally nice, happy, good to others, just a good spirit. Some have mean spirits. They don't like anyone, they don't care about anything but themselves, just mean spirited people. So on this I think we are opposite. No biggie. I believe when the seed of this body dies (our earthly flesh body) we step out into our new body (our heavenly spiritual body) I don't think our heavenly body it is without mass, I think of the angels that God brought with Him when going to destroy Sodom, how the towns people wanted them to come out. Must look just like man does. Or the fallen angels able to create "Giants". But as for bone, bone can break, therefore corruptible, as far as I understand. I believe to be absent from the body (flesh) is to be with the Lord (spiritual) 2 bodies. The flesh body, like the seed must die for the plant to grow, must die to receive the heavenly or incorruptible. Do I think there some spirits cruising around without bodies? Would seem so. I agree, we will vary in our understanding on certain issues, and like the way you established that it's not significant enough to effect our unity together in the Lord Jesus. God bless! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WordSword Posted January 31, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 168 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,161 Content Per Day: 0.24 Reputation: 644 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/07/2010 Status: Online Share Posted January 31, 2020 I agree with Jostler, that everyone who comes into this life is eternal in their spirit; and I also believe that their will not be a person in eternity who will not have an immortal physical body that will be either with God or in the lake of fire, "For the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation” (Jn 5:28). "Resurrection" has only to do with the body but not the spirit which never ceases to exist, never requires being resurrected. At rebirth we are separated in our spirit from the damnation (Ro 8:1) and dominion (Ro 6:14) of our our old man (sin nature) but not from its indwelling presence (Ro 7:17, 20), and this is an eternal, spiritual (mystical) death we encounter related to Christ's physical death for believers, as He did not require a spiritual death as we do; and His physical death eternally addressed all the sin in a believers life! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justthefacts Posted January 31, 2020 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 48 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 17 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/03/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted January 31, 2020 On 1/29/2020 at 2:22 PM, Jostler said: It's answerable now. Jesus made a curious statement after the resurrection: Why did He not say "flesh and blood" as we normally would? He was letting them know that it was Him and not some ghost. They saw Him die and buried and at that time still didn't fully understand what He meant when He stated unto Mary: I am the resurrection and the life. They perceived that He was dead and would remain that way as all others until the day of the Lord [His return} at which time all shall be resurrected so by seeing and touching His hands and feet, they not only knew it was Him, but that He was resurrected and the resurrection. Hope that helps JTF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justthefacts Posted January 31, 2020 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 48 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 17 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/03/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted January 31, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, DeighAnn said: I removed this post because I addressed the wrong person when I presented it and there was not near enough biblical information in its context for a disciple of the Lord to properly reason out. Please forgive and Godbless I will present a post and address the right person with the proper biblical teachings at another time. JTF Edited January 31, 2020 by justthefacts 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeighAnn Posted January 31, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 6,301 Content Per Day: 3.63 Reputation: 1,658 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/31/2019 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 31, 2020 It was a study in "times" that lead to my end of lake of fire belief along with other scripture. I have look at ashes and they are nothing. The words used as " forever, everlasting, eternal" many times are set to specific "times" or eras or ages or dispensations or what ever they are called and rightly dividing those is critical to finding the truth. Psalm 37:8 Cease from anger, and forsake wrath: fret not thyself in any wise to do evil. Psalm 37:9 For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth. Psalm 37:10 For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be. Psalm 68:1 Let God arise, let his enemies be scattered: let them also that hate him flee before him. Psalm 68:2 As smoke is driven away, so drive them away: as wax melteth before the fire, so let the wicked perish at the presence of God. Ezekiel 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die. Ezekiel 28:18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. Malachi 4:1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. Malachi 4:2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall. Malachi 4:3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts. . Romans 6:20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. Romans 6:21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. Romans 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. Greek 28 Not marvel at this for is coming an hour in which all those in the tombs will hear the voice of Him 29 and will come forth those good having done to the resurrection of life and those evil having dove to the resurrection of judgment 2920 2920 kriseos a decision, judgment judging, judgment, decision, sentence: generally divine judgment, accusation Help to separate, distinguish, judgment,…… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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