Church Civil War And Letters from the "Church Fathers"

[Yishai]

This subject seems to have arose again in todays time.. we see above Christian was originally a sect of Judaism.   

In some of the church fathers letters, we see them say things specifically against Jews who followed Jesus, and wanted to keep them out of the church all together, Ignatious also cut ties with the Jerusalem council, to make himself leader.

Marcion, who was eventually excommunicated from the church, is the first person who coined the terms New and Old(testament) and it stuck. He also taught that Jesus spoke of a different God altogether than that "tribal deity" of the "old testament"

Constantine was another influence into "todays Christianity" eventually Morphing into a New religion all together with new Sun-day Sabbath, new Holidays,death of Holy Law, any and all efforts to separate themselves from Judaism.     

Edited February 19, 2020 by Yishai

[Yishai]

Ignatious..

.Chapter 8. Let nothing be done without the bishop

See that you all follow the bishop, even as Jesus Christ does the Father, and the presbytery as you would the apostles; and reverence the deacons, as being the institution of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. It is not lawful without the bishop either to baptize or to celebrate a love-feast; but whatsoever he shall approve of, that is also pleasing to God, so that everything that is done may be secure and valid.

Ch.9
 It is well to reverence both God and the bishop. He who honours the bishop has been honoured by God; he who does anything without the knowledge of the bishop, does [in reality] serve the devil........

This is one of the main guys "church fathers" of todays Christianity...one of the main people who caused Christianity and Judaism to part ways. He did not care about Messiahs actual teachings or what he called "the archives" surely meaning the Tanakh(OT) we can easily see this is the morphing of a new non Jewish religion. Which is not Biblical in any ways.

Edited February 18, 2020 by Yishai

[Tzephanyahu]

Wow, interesting post Yishai. Thanks. 

[Yishai]

3 hours ago, Tzephanyahu said:

Wow, interesting post Yishai. Thanks. 

Thank you my brother!, I posted a 2nd post as well, but they got my post on approved only list?

Edited February 18, 2020 by Yishai

[Yishai]

The fourth century “church father” Epiphanius gives a detailed description:

But these sectarians… did not call themselves Christians–but “Nazarenes,” … However they are simply complete Jews. They use not only the New Testament but the Old Testament as well, as the Jews do… They have no different ideas, but confess everything exactly as the Law proclaims it and in the Jewish fashion– except for their belief in Messiah, if you please! For they acknowledge both the resurrection of the dead and the divine creation of all things, and declare that God is one, and that his son is Yeshua the Messiah. They are trained to a nicety in Hebrew. For among them the entire Law, the Prophets, and the… Writings… are read in Hebrew, as they surely are by the Jews. They are different from the Jews, and different from Christians, only in the following. They disagree with Jews because they have come to faith in Messiah; but since they are still fettered by the Law–circumcision, the Sabbath, and the rest– they are not in accord with Christians…. they are nothing but Jews…. They have the Goodnews according to Matthew in its entirety in Hebrew. For it is clear that they still preserve this, in the Hebrew alphabet, as it was originally written. (Epiphanius; Panarion 29)

 

We can see by this time 4th century, How he acts almost sickened by Jewish people that fully Accept Y'shua as Messiah! Also he Dont seem to even believe the the old testament should be read at all.

"Christian" by this time seems to have alredy fully transformed from a sect of Christain Judaism.. into a fully Non Jewish religion.

Edited February 18, 2020 by Yishai

[Yishai]

The “church father” Jerome (4th Cent.) described these Nazarenes as those “…who accept Messiah in such a way that they do not cease to observe the old Law.” (Jerome; On. Is. 8:14).

But in a letter to Augustine, Jerome makes an amazing admission concerning the Nazarenes:

“The matter in debate, therefore, or I should rather say your opinion regarding it, is summed up in this: that since the preaching of the gospel of Christ, the believing Jews do well in observing the precepts of the law, i.e. in offering sacrifices as Paul did, in circumcising their children, as Paul did in the case of Timothy, and keeping the Jewish Sabbath, as all the Jews have been accustomed to do. If this be true, we fall into the heresy… [of those who] though believing in Christ, were anathematized by the fathers for this one error, that they mixed up the ceremonies of the law with the gospel of Christ, and professed their faith in that which was new, without letting go what was old. …In our own day there exists a sect among the Jews throughout all the synagogues of the East, which is called the sect of the Minæans, and is even now condemned by the Pharisees. The adherents to this sect are known commonly as Nazarenes; they believe in Christ the Son of God, born of the Virgin Mary; and they say that He who suffered under Pontius Pilate and rose again, is the same as the one in whom we believe. But while they desire to be both Jews and Christians, they are neither the one nor the other. I therefore beseech you, who think that you are called upon to heal my slight wound, which is no more, so to speak, than a prick or scratch from a needle, to devote your skill in the healing art to this grievous wound, which has been opened by a spear driven home with the impetus of a javelin. For there is surely no proportion between the culpability of him who exhibits the various opinions held by the fathers in a commentary on Scripture, and the guilt of him who reintroduces within the Church a most pestilential heresy. If, however, there is for us no alternative but to receive the Jews into the Church, along with the usages prescribed by their law; if, in short, it shall be declared lawful for them to continue in the Churches of Christ what they have been accustomed to practice in the synagogues of Satan, I will tell you my opinion of the matter: they will not become Christians, but they will make us Jews.
(Jerome; Letter 75)

 

This is another very Surprising letter from a 4th century "Church Father", we can see by this time these people believe they are in no way affiliated with Judaisim, and worried these jews will get into thier church and convert them! Haha because the Messiah is not NEW!  and then basically calls the Old testament the work of Satan!

Also we can see where these false terms like "Jewish" Sabbath originated, no such thing, there is only HIS Sabbath. "Keep MY Sabbaths"..

Edited February 19, 2020 by Yishai

[Yishai]

Up until the time of Ignatius (in the late first century), matters of dispute that arose at Antioch were ultimately referred to the Jerusalem Council (as in Acts 14:26-15:2). Ignatius usurped the authority of the Jerusalem council, declaring himself as the local bishop as the ultimate authority over the assembly of which he was bishop, and likewise declaring the same as true of all other bishops and their local assemblies. Ignatius writes:

…being subject to your bishop…
…run together according to the will of God.
Jesus… is sent by the will of the Father;
As the bishops… are by the will of Jesus Christ.
(Eph. 1:9, 11)

…your bishop…I think you happy who are so joined to him,
as the church is to Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ is to the Father…
Let us take heed therefore, that we not set ourselves
against the bishop, that we may be subject to God….
We ought to look upon the bishop, even as we would
upon the Lord himself.
(Eph. 2:1-4)

Edited February 19, 2020 by Yishai

[Tzephanyahu]

Interestimg posts @Yishai. Fascinating reads.

The Natsarim or Nazerenes is the "sect" that Paul was a part of, as detailed in acts. This term actually has a double meaning and should be understood as "branches", as in those grafted in. 

Not only that, the promise of the Natsarim runs throughout the Bible. Check out this video if you are interested to learn more. 

Love & Shalom 

[Tzephanyahu]

1 hour ago, charisenexcelsis said:

My Sabbath is broader and stronger than the observation of the law.

The Sabbath is a broad subject but the literal is not negated for the sake of the deeper, spiritual interpretation. 

For if the literal observation is to be ignored, there is no foundation to build a broader meaning. 

[Tzephanyahu]

37 minutes ago, charisenexcelsis said:

Remember the Sabbath and keep it Holy. Everyday

Yeah... That's not quite a quote from Exodus though is it. 

Oh well, what you choose to do is between you and the Lord. But let's not try and change what Scripture actually says:

"Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates.  For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it."