one.opinion Posted February 27, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,240 Content Per Day: 2.08 Reputation: 1,356 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/03/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 27, 2020 1 minute ago, enoob57 said: fine if ya throw out the Bible... I'm having trouble following your cryptic argument. Are you trying to say that the Bible claims that God DID NOT create the first cells? You couldn't possibly be arguing just to argue, could you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted February 27, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,479 Content Per Day: 8.00 Reputation: 21,607 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted February 27, 2020 after their 'Kind' or why not let those cells keep popping into existence.... evolution is the most ridiculous of the fools journey …. and I really get concerned when those who claim to know God claim that it was His way of doing things... death came as a result of sin- that's what God says- the evolutionist claim death and evolving was the method... trying to mix the two in some sort of hybrid belief is denial of God's Word... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one.opinion Posted February 27, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,240 Content Per Day: 2.08 Reputation: 1,356 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/03/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 27, 2020 @enoob57 Let's try to remain on topic here. Do you have anything to say about Intelligent Design, or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starman Posted February 27, 2020 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 40 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 12 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/13/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted February 27, 2020 (edited) If I understand your last comments you seem to be saying that the classic definition of Darwinian evolution cannot be true. Are you suggesting a teleological form of evolution? If so, how does that differ from ID, progressive creationism, theistic evolution or another one of the many creationist theories? Note also that as soon as evolution becomes teleological and, therefore, in some way directed by a Creator the idea becomes subject to the same criticisms leveled at ID, that it is non scientific (which I don't necessarily agree with). If you believe that ID is non scientific then I think whatever form of evolution you posit is also non scientific. I could then conclude that your many positive statements about evolutionary theory are inauthentic, or perhaps you haven't fully thought through the contradictions in your position. Am I wrong here? Edited February 27, 2020 by Starman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted February 27, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,994 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,692 Content Per Day: 11.74 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted February 27, 2020 There has been a growing support for intelligent design in biology, physics and cosmology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one.opinion Posted February 27, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,240 Content Per Day: 2.08 Reputation: 1,356 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/03/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 27, 2020 10 minutes ago, Starman said: If I understand your last comments you seem to be saying that the classic definition of Darwinian evolution cannot be true. I'm saying that I believe classical Darwinian (non-teleological) evolution is untrue. However... mechanistically, I would say that a theistic version of evolution (with God's precise desires as an eventual outcome) would be very difficult to distinguish from a non-teleological version of evolution. 32 minutes ago, Starman said: If so, how does that differ from ID, progressive creationism, theistic evolution or another one of the many creationist theories? ID proponents, at least at a cursory view (I have not read any of Behe's or Meyer's books), seem to believe that evolutionary mechanisms (natural selection, neutral theory, and others) are an insufficient explanation for what we can see in the living world - past and present. I would argue that an omnipotent God could absolutely (and most-likely did) establish laws of nature to bring about what we can see. Progressive Creationists seem to take God's involvement in nature one step further - that God periodically created fully-formed organisms throughout eons past. They accept what they term "microevolution", but reject "macroevolution". I believe the same processes operate on both and that the biggest difference between micro- and macroevolution is simply time scale. I align most-closely with Theistic Evolutionists (or "Evolutionary Creationists" as Francis Collins likes to say). I probably lean a little more toward the theologically conservative end of the spectrum, with a belief in a literal Adam and Eve, but that is where I would have to categorize myself. 35 minutes ago, Starman said: Note also that as soon as evolution becomes teleological and, therefore, in some way directed by a Creator the idea becomes subject to the same criticisms leveled at ID, that it is non scientific Agreed. I don't think TE or ID are actually scientific hypotheses. My views of science are certainly scientific, but my belief in God is not a scientific enterprise, it is a matter of personal faith. Science is bound by the rules of methodological naturalism, meaning it is limited to answering questions that have physically-testable answers. God is far greater than science, and questions about Him cannot be answered by scientific efforts. 40 minutes ago, Starman said: If you believe that ID is non scientific then I think whatever form of evolution you posit is also non scientific. Yep. 41 minutes ago, Starman said: I could then conclude that your many positive statements about evolutionary theory are inauthentic, or perhaps you haven't fully thought through the contradictions in your position. That would be a false conclusion. There is no reason that I cannot study science (God's creation) with the scientific method, and simultaneously recognize that there is existence beyond the physical (God Himself). I see no reason why the two pose a contradiction. I also see no reason to assume I have not given this topic sufficient thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one.opinion Posted February 27, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,240 Content Per Day: 2.08 Reputation: 1,356 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/03/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 27, 2020 36 minutes ago, missmuffet said: There has been a growing support for intelligent design in biology, physics and cosmology. That is a really broad statement. I'm a Biology Professor, and not a physicist or cosmologist. If you would like to discuss anything related to biology, I'd be happy to oblige. If you'd rather discuss physics and/or cosmology, I can only try my best :-P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted February 27, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,994 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,692 Content Per Day: 11.74 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted February 27, 2020 8 minutes ago, one.opinion said: That is a really broad statement. I'm a Biology Professor, and not a physicist or cosmologist. If you would like to discuss anything related to biology, I'd be happy to oblige. If you'd rather discuss physics and/or cosmology, I can only try my best :-P Where do you think God is in the world of Biology? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one.opinion Posted February 27, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,240 Content Per Day: 2.08 Reputation: 1,356 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/03/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 27, 2020 2 minutes ago, missmuffet said: Where do you think God is in the world of Biology? Everywhere! For a more detailed answer, you can read the rest of the thread - not much here yet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted February 27, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,479 Content Per Day: 8.00 Reputation: 21,607 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted February 27, 2020 1 hour ago, one.opinion said: @enoob57 Let's try to remain on topic here. Do you have anything to say about Intelligent Design, or not? I did you suggest God's uses evolution in intelligent design... and I merely pointing out the absurdity of such belief Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts