The Word of God affirms Science

[missmuffet]

1 minute ago, Alive said:

Now that is well stated. Are these your words, MM?

No, I got these words from got questions. 

[SwordMaster]

On 8/13/2022 at 7:54 AM, The Barbarian said:

Science is merely a process invented by men to understand the physical universe.  While nothing else we can do works better for that purpose, it's still a man-made process, subject to error like all other things men do.

The Bible does not affirm science at all.   It affirms God and His relationship with us.  You might as well claim that the Bible affirms plumbing.

 

LOL...plumbing isn't science. As to the process of science, when men look at the facts of nature, and decide to purposely add their own assumptions to the mix and teach those assumptions as facts when they are not facts, that goes beyond human error.

And that is what evolutionists do. On purpose.

 

[SwordMaster]

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Science can neither affirm nor deny the existence or function of the supernatural.  It is outside of that which science can study.

Dead wrong, homie. Science is NOT just about the physical, first off; it is about the facts, whatever those facts are.

Second, the supernatural can be studied by science, and has been. You have fallen for the lie philosophy of humanism mixing with science - naturalism. This false philosophy is evolutionists first weapon in their arsenal of deceptions to convince the naïve and uneducated that TOE is a valid scientific exercise.

It fails...slain by "an ugly fact," as Huxley put it.

The problem, is that sinful men continue trying to make it so that they don't feel accountable to God...and they fail in that effort, too.

 

 

[SwordMaster]

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That's a consistent and honest approach.    I don't read Genesis the same way you do, but it's not a salvation issue, nor is there anything to criticize in taking your understanding of scripture over that of others.  

Bold italic mine (obviously)...ah, but it does affect one's standing with God as having eternal life. In case you don't understand this Biblical differentiation, salvation and eternal life are not the same thing. Sure, you can get saved believing in evolution, but it affects one's understanding of other essential doctrines and can destroy one's walk with God even when that person fails to understand that fact.

Contrary to calvinism, salvtion is not the beginning and end, it is only the beginning; maintaining one's eternal life (covenant relationship with God) is our part. This is where satan comes into the picture...it only takes one false belief to prevent a person from getting saved or destroying his stand with God in Christ as having eternal life...or numerous little, some "non-essential" doctrines.

Like little termites, those false beliefs slowly eat away at the foundation of relationship with God until that person is spiritually dead even while believing he is on his way to heaven. The false theory of evolution is one of those false doctrines - not of the church or Scripture, but a false doctrine of the world (just like "homosexuals are born that way" is a worldly false doctrine) - because neither are true.

 

 

 

[SwordMaster]

10 hours ago, missmuffet said:

A Christian can have faith in God and have respect for science, as long as we remember which is perfect and which is not. A Christian can embrace science that seeks the truth, but rejects the "priests of science" who put human knowledge above God. 

Absolutely true, but we as Christians must study to show ourselves approved and practice righteousness so that we have the spiritual senses to be able to differentiate between "what is falsely called science (knowledge)" and the facts of nature. 

The facts of nature are irrefutable - but some scientists purposely twist those facts with assumptions and make up man-made "science" that is not science.

Blessings!

 

[The Barbarian]

1 hour ago, SwordMaster said:

LOL...plumbing isn't science.

Actually, it's applied science.   A plumber has to understand hydraulics.    Plumbing is methodologically naturalistic.   It can't deal with the supernatural, like other things in science.    But plumbers and scientists can.   If this puzzles you, you're on the way to learning.

1 hour ago, SwordMaster said:

A Christian can embrace science that seeks the truth, but rejects the "priests of science

That's just a fairy tale creationists tell.   Most of us are theists, and none of us will tell you that science can say anything at all about the supernatural.

It's just wrong to be jealous of science; it's not there to have anything to do with faith. 

 

 

[The Barbarian]

That's a consistent and honest approach.    I don't read Genesis the same way you do, but it's not a salvation issue, nor is there anything to criticize in taking your understanding of scripture over that of others.  

1 hour ago, SwordMaster said:

Bold italic mine (obviously)...ah, but it does affect one's standing with God as having eternal life.

No.  Creationists are no less  Christians for refusing to accept Genesis as it is.   You can insist on six literal days even though the text itself says they aren't literal days.   And you salvation is not in danger.    Only if you make an idol of your new doctrines and insist that others must believe them to be saved, will you put your soul in danger.

1 hour ago, SwordMaster said:

This is where satan comes into the picture...it only takes one false belief to prevent a person from getting saved or destroying his stand with God in Christ as having eternal life...or numerous little, some "non-essential" doctrines.

No.   Jesus was very clear as to how He will separate the sheep and the goats.   Your opinion of evolution is not one of those things.   Let it be God's way and it won't bother you any longer.

 

[ayin jade]

1 hour ago, SwordMaster said:

Bold italic mine (obviously)...ah, but it does affect one's standing with God as having eternal life. In case you don't understand this Biblical differentiation, salvation and eternal life are not the same thing. Sure, you can get saved believing in evolution, but it affects one's understanding of other essential doctrines and can destroy one's walk with God even when that person fails to understand that fact.

Contrary to calvinism, salvtion is not the beginning and end, it is only the beginning; maintaining one's eternal life (covenant relationship with God) is our part. This is where satan comes into the picture...it only takes one false belief to prevent a person from getting saved or destroying his stand with God in Christ as having eternal life...or numerous little, some "non-essential" doctrines.

Like little termites, those false beliefs slowly eat away at the foundation of relationship with God until that person is spiritually dead even while believing he is on his way to heaven. The false theory of evolution is one of those false doctrines - not of the church or Scripture, but a false doctrine of the world (just like "homosexuals are born that way" is a worldly false doctrine) - because neither are true.

 

 

 

Please explain this:

In case you don't understand this Biblical differentiation, salvation and eternal life are not the same thing.

It sounds like you are saying that if you believe in evolution (which I dont) then you do not get eternal life with the Lord. I do not understand how salvation and eternal life are different when Jesus Himself states believing in Him gives one eternal life. And believing in Him gets one salvation. 

Romans 10

9 Because if you confess the Lord Jesus, and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved.
10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth one confesses unto salvation.
 

John 10

27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.
28 And I give to them eternal life, and they shall never ever perish, and not anyone shall pluck them out of My hand.

 

 

[SwordMaster]

2 minutes ago, ayin jade said:

Please explain this:

In case you don't understand this Biblical differentiation, salvation and eternal life are not the same thing.

It sounds like you are saying that if you believe in evolution (which I dont) then you do not get eternal life with the Lord. I do not understand how salvation and eternal life are different when Jesus Himself states believing in Him gives one eternal life. And believing in Him gets one salvation. 

Romans 10

9 Because if you confess the Lord Jesus, and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved.
10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth one confesses unto salvation.
 

John 10

27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.
28 And I give to them eternal life, and they shall never ever perish, and not anyone shall pluck them out of My hand.

 

 

If you do a full study on the two terms, "salvation" and "eternal life," they are not the same thing. Paul in particular uses these two terms as metonyms for one another in different verses. For example:

 

Philippians 2:12
Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling,
 

No one can "work" their own salvation; here the word salvation is used as a metonym for eternal life. A metonym is a word used in place of another word that is related but not the same. In the example here: "Your desires are subordinate to those of the crown." the crown stands for either the kingdom of the king; it is used as a metonym for either, but the crown is NOT the king or the kingdom.

As another example:

 

Hebrews 5:9
And being made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him,
 

Salvation is not eternal, it only pertains to the here and now. Taking the way it is used here, one could be deceived into believing that once they got saved, they keep their salvation for the rest of eternity (once saved always saved false doctrine). The term salvation here is used instead of eternal life as a metonym, how do we know? Because salvation does not depend upon obedience to Christ - but keeping your standing in Christ as having eternal life IS dependent upon walking in obedience to God.

Two examples of these two terms used metonymically for one another. When we come to understand how to study Scripture, and not just read it, we come to see that Scriptural truth is found in the details, not in general statements.

No, I am not saying that if one believes in the false doctrine of evolution that God will not save them. What I said was that believing in such a false doctrine has the potential to destroy a person's faith in God. Do you have any idea how many polls have demonstrated that children raised in church, and then went off into secular college and universities, LOST their faith because of being brain washed with evolutionary doctrine? Do the research...it is horrible and sad.

In answer to your question about Jesus saying that all one must do to have eternal life is to believe in Him...this is a false doctrine. When we learn that we must take Scripture as progressive revelation, the entire doctrine of salvation is that one must choose to believe in Him, one must then choose to repent from his previous lifestyle of sinful behavior, and then he must receive water baptism into Christ, God's living new covenant. No one gets saved just because they believe...and that false doctrine from calvinism has caused a huge number of people to believe they are saved when they actually are not.

As for Romans 10:9-10, allow me to give you a more accurate rendering of the Greek with its grammar fully intact (which most English Bibles do not do for various reasons)...

 

Romans 10:9-10

9 because if you profess with your mouth that you have made Jesus Christ your Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, then you will be saved. 10 Because with the heart one believes into righteousness, and with the mouth he makes a covenant promise taking him into salvation. 

 

In the way that homologeo (see note above) is utilized here by Paul, he implies the same as Peter does in I Pet. 3:21 - a covenant oath or promise to walk in obedience to God. No one gets saved just because they believe and confess, that is not what Scripture teaches when we take all of the over 300 passages that address the topic.

Taking two or three passages out of over 300, and claiming that that is the whole truth, makes about as much sense as taking a 300 piece jig-saw puzzle, taking two or three pieces of it, laying them on the table, and exclaiming what a beautiful picture the puzzle makes. That is not how Bible study is to be accomplished.

Again...John 10:27-28 with all of its grammar intact:

 

John 10:27-28

27 My sheep continuously listen to and obey My voice, and I know and approve of them, and they follow Me in trusting obedience; 28 and I give them eternal life, and they will not perish in the next age and no one can take them out of My hand by force.

 

Hope that helps.

 

[JohnR7]

On 4/15/2020 at 9:12 PM, Tristen said:

The Bible doesn't presume to answer every question

God has an answer for every question and a solution for every problem. Of course, we all want instant answers, solutions and gratification. Life does not always work that way for us. Sometimes it takes our whole life to obtain our objectives. So we just keep working, seeking and searching for solutions and answers.