What is a Seer?

[Heart2Soul]

7 hours ago, Paul James said:

The first recorded people who made 'the light' of the Holy Spirit above the written Scriptures were the Quakers (Society of Friends).  So, depending on the "inner light" of the Spirit is not new.

I have been "reading" the Puritan divine John Owen on my iPad's very British verbal dictation software.  Great for listening last thing at night.   He said something very interesting that I had not seen before.  He said that the written Scriptures are infallible, but our faith is fallible.   I have just started to listen to what he says about the Holy Spirit, and he doesn't encourage people getting "new revelation" that is not already revealed in the Scriptures.  I am looking forward to hearing more of what he says about it.

Don't let one man's philosophy persuade you to go against the Word of God...

Ask the Holy Spirit! He will tell you and will not lie because He cannot lie.

[iamlamad]

12 hours ago, Paul James said:

There is no such office as the Prophet in the New Testament.  The Prophet in the New Testament is one of the five fold ministries;  but because of the many divisions in the body of Christ, and that the New Testament Prophet has to be recognised by the whole body of Christ, that ministry is impossible in these days.  So anyone purporting to have the office of Prophet, going around giving prophecies "to the nation" and for the church is a fake, and his prophecies are dreamed up in his own head.

I guess you are saying then that God messed up by including the office of the prophet in the 5 fold ministry of the church. Sorry, but I am going to take Paul's word over yours.  Just because someone gives prophecies does not mean God has set him in the office of a prophet. 

Just so you know, one sign of a true prophet: God will send him or her to WARN preachers when they are in trouble with God. 

For example, a prophet was sent to warn Jack Coe that if he did not judge himself in three areas, he would die soon. He did not heed the prophet and shortly thereafter died while preaching.  

God did not miss it in including the prophet in the five fold ministry.

[Paul James]

9 hours ago, iamlamad said:

I guess you are saying then that God messed up by including the office of the prophet in the 5 fold ministry of the church. Sorry, but I am going to take Paul's word over yours.  Just because someone gives prophecies does not mean God has set him in the office of a prophet. 

Just so you know, one sign of a true prophet: God will send him or her to WARN preachers when they are in trouble with God. 

For example, a prophet was sent to warn Jack Coe that if he did not judge himself in three areas, he would die soon. He did not heed the prophet and shortly thereafter died while preaching.  

God did not miss it in including the prophet in the five fold ministry.

When the Lord set up the ministry of Prophet in the five fold ministry, the church at the time was one church with no denominational divisions.  Therefore the ministries of apostle and prophet were recognised across all the regional churches.  This is how the Apostles' ministry was recognised in all the churches they visited.  And Paul's letters were distributed and read in all the churches also. Agabus, the prophet was also recognised in all the churches.

But when the church formalised, and local bishops took over the authority of their regional churches, so the ministry of apostle and prophet were replaced by the authority of the bishops  and when the bishop of Rome took overall leadership of the church, he took over these ministries and incorporated them into his "vicar of Christ" role in "the chair of Peter", making the roles of apostle and prophet redundant.

The evangelist role was taken over by the Jesuits, and the local priest became the pastor of his particular church, and the Roman Magisterium took over the teaching role.

So, in these days, with all our different movements and denominations, the general role of apostle and prophet cannot exist.  There are some denominations that have people with the title "apostle" and "prophet" but they are recognised only within their own denomination, and not across denominations.   

So, the Pentecostal Apostolic Church in New Zealand has its apostle and prophet, but those ministries are recognised only in that denomination, and not in other Pentecostal or Charismatic churches in New Zealand, and certainly not in any overseas church.

We have other mainstream Charismatic denominations who have people recognised as apostles and prophets, and some other denominations, usually in the Charismatic movement, recognise them, but the majority of churches outside of the Charismatic movement don't.

So, it is pointless to say that the current ministry or "office" of Apostle or Prophet is God appointed.  Any such "office" or ministry is man-appointed and covers a very limited area of influence.

[Heart2Soul]

11 hours ago, Paul James said:

When the Lord set up the ministry of Prophet in the five fold ministry, the church at the time was one church with no denominational divisions.  Therefore the ministries of apostle and prophet were recognised across all the regional churches.  This is how the Apostles' ministry was recognised in all the churches they visited.  And Paul's letters were distributed and read in all the churches also. Agabus, the prophet was also recognised in all the churches.

But when the church formalised, and local bishops took over the authority of their regional churches, so the ministry of apostle and prophet were replaced by the authority of the bishops  and when the bishop of Rome took overall leadership of the church, he took over these ministries and incorporated them into his "vicar of Christ" role in "the chair of Peter", making the roles of apostle and prophet redundant.

The evangelist role was taken over by the Jesuits, and the local priest became the pastor of his particular church, and the Roman Magisterium took over the teaching role.

So, in these days, with all our different movements and denominations, the general role of apostle and prophet cannot exist.  There are some denominations that have people with the title "apostle" and "prophet" but they are recognised only within their own denomination, and not across denominations.   

So, the Pentecostal Apostolic Church in New Zealand has its apostle and prophet, but those ministries are recognised only in that denomination, and not in other Pentecostal or Charismatic churches in New Zealand, and certainly not in any overseas church.

We have other mainstream Charismatic denominations who have people recognised as apostles and prophets, and some other denominations, usually in the Charismatic movement, recognise them, but the majority of churches outside of the Charismatic movement don't.

So, it is pointless to say that the current ministry or "office" of Apostle or Prophet is God appointed.  Any such "office" or ministry is man-appointed and covers a very limited area of influence.

Please study the scriptures concerning God restoring all that has been destroyed.....including His church....everything has to be restored since the time of Adam and Eve. 

[iamlamad]

13 hours ago, Paul James said:

So, in these days, with all our different movements and denominations, the general role of apostle and prophet cannot exist. 

OF COURSE IT CAN! God is not stymied by denominations! 

[Paul James]

20 hours ago, Heart2Soul said:

Please study the scriptures concerning God restoring all that has been destroyed.....including His church....everything has to be restored since the time of Adam and Eve. 

The present day church has a very long way to go before it can be anything like the First Century church.

[Paul James]

18 hours ago, iamlamad said:

OF COURSE IT CAN! God is not stymied by denominations! 

Try it then.   Get appointed as a Prophet to the body of Christ and see how many outside of your own group actually accepts your ministry.

[Justin Adams]

36 minutes ago, Paul James said:

The present day church has a very long way to go before it can be anything like the First Century church.

I have seen outpourings...

[iamlamad]

3 hours ago, Paul James said:

Try it then.   Get appointed as a Prophet to the body of Christ and see how many outside of your own group actually accepts your ministry.

You are thinking backwards: GOD sets people into the office of a prophet. No church official can do that! I know, some try.  It does not matter what PEOPLE call someone: "prophet this" or Prophetess that." If God placed them into the office of the prophet, then they are a prophet, and if God did NOT, then they are not - even if they do prophecy.  Paul said we could all "prophecy" one by one in a service. 

People give true prophesies for local bodies of believers, but that does not make them a prophet. Someone in the office of a prophet will often prophesy for the entire body of Christ in one nation. However, unless it is broadcast on TV or written in a book, few people will know about it.  True prophets get known when they prophecy some big event and then it happens, such as an earthquake. Or a bad hurricane. 

[Heart2Soul]

3 hours ago, iamlamad said:

You are thinking backwards: GOD sets people into the office of a prophet. No church official can do that! I know, some try.  It does not matter what PEOPLE call someone: "prophet this" or Prophetess that." If God placed them into the office of the prophet, then they are a prophet, and if God did NOT, then they are not - even if they do prophecy.  Paul said we could all "prophecy" one by one in a service. 

People give true prophesies for local bodies of believers, but that does not make them a prophet. Someone in the office of a prophet will often prophesy for the entire body of Christ in one nation. However, unless it is broadcast on TV or written in a book, few people will know about it.  True prophets get known when they prophecy some big event and then it happens, such as an earthquake. Or a bad hurricane. 

Exactly brother!......I will share my testimony from 1984....

The Holy Spirit made me write down an address to an advertisement on the radio station I was listening to..there was going to be a special guest who would be ministering at a church in Oklahoma City....I lived in Pawnee...an hour and a half drive.....I have never heard of the church or the guest speaker...after praying about it and asking for confirmation I made arrangements to attend.

When I got to the city I had to stop and ask directions about 4 times....now in my mind I was expecting a big fancy church...I finally found it.... a small white wood framed building in the poorest of neighborhoods I have ever been in....I go inside and sit down....about an hour later the church was filled with guests and members and they were all black....(i am not prejudice or racist at all) so this caught me by surprise...I had never been to a church with all black members....so the service began, the singers sang, the preacher came out and preached a sermon and around 10pm the guest speaker came on stage....he didn't preach a word...he just started pointing at people and would speak a prophetic word to them (at that time I didn't know what a prophetic word was).....so I was in awe that this man could see these things....well this went on for about 30-40 minutes...I was getting tired and had a long drive home...so getting anxious for the service to end....then this man said...."There is a lady here, her name is xxxxxx, she is from Pawnee, Okla., her dentist name is Dr. Keith Smith and 3 days ago she had a filling replace and paid 35 dollars....if she is here the Lord has a word for her"

My jaw was on the floor...lol...and I looked around and asked does someone here know me?....finally I raised my hand and said that is me....he said come up here please....(no one else got called up front so I was very nervous)....anyway...when I walked up there he said..."the next several years of your life will be like plowing a field with an old plowshear, you will toil and become weary from the burden of the labor of it....this is representative of the trials and tribulations you will go through, and God wants you to know if you remain faithful to the end you will reap a harvest.".....
I didn't know what to say....I said ok...thank you and went back to my seat....I had never met or heard a prophet before.....

A month later....same thing, different church, different speaker, same city....again the man pointed at me (no details of my name and such like the last time) and he said the exact same thing....

I went home and prayed and said Father you sure are trying to warn me about some tough times ahead...you could have told me yourself....He said...I wanted you to see how a prophet operates because I am calling you to be a prophetess...oooooo....I said, oh please Father I want to be a faith healer...I really want the gift of healing....but guess who got their way....Yes...He did.

Edited May 10, 2020 by Heart2Soul
typos