Generational curses and the nature of sin

[*Zion*]

Bless you, everyone . 

 

Exodus 20:5

Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

 

Exodus 34:7

Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.

 

Numbers 14:18

The Lord is longsuffering, and of great mercy, forgiving iniquity and transgression, and by no means clearing the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation.

Jesus came not to do away with the law, but to fulfil it.  What does this then mean when dealing with generational curses?  Can people be subject to generation strongholds and controlling spirits?  Are these judgements/curses automatically broken once one is saved by grace through faith in Christ, or must we deal with them after coming to Him?

What say ye?

[Heleadethme]

3 hours ago, *Zion* said:

Bless you, everyone . 

 

Exodus 20:5

Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

 

Exodus 34:7

Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.

 

Numbers 14:18

The Lord is longsuffering, and of great mercy, forgiving iniquity and transgression, and by no means clearing the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation.

Jesus came not to do away with the law, but to fulfil it.  What does this then mean when dealing with generational curses?  Can people be subject to generation strongholds and controlling spirits?  Are these judgements/curses automatically broken once one is saved by grace through faith in Christ, or must we deal with them after coming to Him?

What say ye?

Good topic...I have often wondered about these things.  To the best of my understanding right now, I believe that when we come to faith in Christ generational bondages have been broken and defeated as far as heaven is concerned......but not necessarily all of them have been defeated on earth.  It is like we know that the devil is a defeated foe, having been defeated at the cross.....yet we also see him still wreaking havoc on earth.  Even though all things have been put under the feet of Jesus, we do not yet "see" all things put under His feet on earth.  Some generational curses/bondages may fall off automatically when we are saved, but others may require a battle and they can be defeated with the help of the Lord, His way and in His timing.  It is often the wisdom of the Lord to defeat our enemies "little by little".  This is why I believe we are to pray that God's will be done on earth as it is in heaven....that is a prayer that what has been accomplished in heaven through the Cross will be apprehended on earth by us also.

Here we see a prophesy looking ahead to the Cross, when generational curses are not put upon the children, and each individual is only dealt with according to our own sin:

Eze 18:2-4

What mean ye, that ye use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying, The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge?

As I live, saith the Lord GOD, ye shall not have occasion any more to use this proverb in Israel.

Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

And yet, here we see the Lord's wisdom:

Deu 7:22-23

And the LORD thy God will put out those nations before thee by little and little: thou mayest not consume them at once, lest the beasts of the field increase upon thee.

But the LORD thy God shall deliver them unto thee, and shall destroy them with a mighty destruction, until they be destroyed.

 

 

Edited April 14, 2020 by Heleadethme

[Manonfire63]

My grandpa was a Freemason.  They have tended to take a lot of oaths.  In retrospect, a lot of bad things may have happened to me and my family due to said oaths.  I have been a life long Christian. 

 

Quote

Are these judgements/curses automatically broken once one is saved by grace through faith in Christ, or must we deal with them after coming to Him?

When is someone actually saved? 

I was a life long Christian.  I didn't really know God till I received a calling around the age of 30. 

Some of those curses.........someone may need to know about them and deal with them?  I don't 100% know.  I am still learning about these things. 

[*Zion*]

38 minutes ago, Manonfire63 said:

My grandpa was a Freemason.  They have tended to take a lot of oaths.  In retrospect, a lot of bad things may have happened to me and my family due to said oaths.  I have been a life long Christian. 

 

When is someone actually saved? 

I was a life long Christian.  I didn't really know God till I received a calling around the age of 30. 

Some of those curses.........someone may need to know about them and deal with them?  I don't 100% know.  I am still learning about these things. 

Someone once told me that we have been saved, we are being saved, and we shall be saved.  I do think there are scriptures to support this, but I haven't dug them all out, as it were.

Maybe that's part of the answer?

[Manonfire63]

Quote

 

Someone once told me that we have been saved, we are being saved, and we shall be saved.  I do think there are scriptures to support this, but I haven't dug them all out, as it were.

Maybe that's part of the answer?

 

Interesting things here to consider: 

 Given someone is saved, and they were blacksliding or in sin, were they really saved? 

Young man grew up in a Protestant Church.  He was baptized.  He went to college and ended up in hook up culture.  Was he saved?  Given he was, being saved may have meant he just wasn't going to hell.  This leads into more of a "Divine Comedy" Donte' understanding of heaven and hell.  There may have been layers to it.  In the Parable of the Minas, God has servants.  Those servants received unequal rewards based on their works.  Faith is a journey.  The Journey didn't end at being saved.  That was the beginning.  

https://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionary/sanctification/
 

Given someone is going through a process of sanctification with God, they will know.  It is not an "I guess" or "This is what I have been told."  There is no doubt.  Someone has a relationship with God.  They hold tight to God. 
 

Edited April 14, 2020 by Manonfire63

[*Zion*]

So then how are they to tackle something that seems to hang around their family?  They may not even be affected by it, but are watching loved ones go through it.  They may be saved, love the Lord, committed to Him, and still struggle with it.  Thoughts?

[Eddy Crocker]

On 4/15/2020 at 12:54 PM, *Zion* said:

So then how are they to tackle something that seems to hang around their family?  They may not even be affected by it, but are watching loved ones go through it.  They may be saved, love the Lord, committed to Him, and still struggle with it.  Thoughts?

I believe everyone is already saved by the fact of what is said in...,

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance,. 

John 3:16 

¹⁶ For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

God wishes none to perish. This is proven by names be blotted out of the book of life. You can’t blot out something unless it was already written there to begin with.

I believe God has given us the gift of eternal life to all souls. We prove this fact to be true about us or we prove it to be wrong. It says that Hell wasn't made for us but was made for the Devil and his Angels.

 

John 17:12

In John:17:12  Jesus, in reference to Judas Iscariot, says that of all his disciples, none has been lost except the "son of perdition

When someone is blotted out of the book of life it’s as though they never even existed. This is when they fall into the category of the son of perdition. This is how the scripture is still true of how he wishes none to perish because it’s a though they never existed.  
They never existed because hell was not made for us. Scripture also says...,

Mathew 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

The truth of everyone being already saved is shining on the just and the unjust alike. It so happens the just faces the son and excepts, believes and embraces this fact. The unjust turns his back on the sun of this reality of being saved and never embraces this fact even though it exists for him. 
This truth about souls has already been predestined from the foundation of the world. We except that fact and work it out through our faith or we don’t. The consequences are we are blotted out of the book as though we never existed and fall into the category of the Son of Perdition so the scriptures can be fulfilled. It’s definitely a mystery past this point. 

[Daniel Marsh]

Jeremiah 31:23-39 Contemporary English Version (CEV)
The Lord Will Bring Judah Home
23 The Lord All-Powerful, the God of Israel, said:

I promise to set the people of Judah free and to lead them back to their hometowns. And when I do, they will once again say,

“We pray that the Lord
    will bless his home,
the sacred hill in Jerusalem
    where his temple stands.”

24 The people will live in Jerusalem and in the towns of Judah. Some will be farmers, and others will be shepherds. 25 Those who feel tired and worn out will find new life and energy, 26 and when they sleep, they will wake up refreshed.[a]

27 Someday, Israel and Judah will be my field where my people and their livestock will grow. 28 In the past, I took care to uproot them, to tear them down, and to destroy them. But when that day comes, I will take care to plant them and help them grow. 29 No longer will anyone go around saying,

“Sour grapes eaten by parents
leave a sour taste in the mouths
    of their children.”

30 When that day comes, only those who eat sour grapes will get the sour taste, and only those who sin will be put to death.

The New Agreement with Israel and Judah
31 The Lord said:

The time will surely come when I will make a new agreement with the people of Israel and Judah. 32 It will be different from the agreement I made with their ancestors when I led them out of Egypt. Although I was their God, they broke that agreement.

33 Here is the new agreement that I, the Lord, will make with the people of Israel:

“I will write my laws
    on their hearts and minds.
I will be their God,
    and they will be my people.

34 “No longer will they have to teach one another to obey me. I, the Lord, promise that all of them will obey me, ordinary people and rulers alike. I will forgive their sins and forget the evil things they have done.”

35 I am the Lord All-Powerful.
I command the sun
    to give light each day,
the moon and stars
to shine at night,
    and ocean waves to roar.
36 I will never forget
    to give those commands,
and I will never let Israel
    stop being a nation.
I, the Lord, have spoken.

37 Can you measure the heavens?
Can you explore
    the depths of the earth?
That’s how hard it would be
for me to reject Israel forever,
    even though they have sinned.
I, the Lord, have spoken.

 

Ezekiel 18 Contemporary English Version (CEV)
Those Who Sin Will Die
18 The Lord said:

2 Ezekiel, I hear the people of Israel using the old saying,

“Sour grapes eaten by parents
leave a sour taste
in the mouths
    of their children.”

3 Now tell them that I am the Lord God, and as surely as I live, that saying will no longer be used in Israel. 4 The lives of all people belong to me—parents as well as children. Only those who sin will be put to death.

5 Suppose there is a truly good man who always does what is fair and right. 6 He refuses to eat meat sacrificed to foreign gods at local shrines or to worship Israel’s idols. He doesn’t have sex with someone else’s wife or with a woman having her monthly period. 7 He never cheats or robs anyone and always returns anything taken as security for a loan; he gives food and clothes to the poor 8 and doesn’t charge interest when lending money. He refuses to do anything evil; he is fair to everyone 9 and faithfully obeys my laws and teachings. This man is good, and I promise he will live.

10 But suppose this good man has an evil son who is violent and commits sins 11 his father never did. He eats meat at local shrines, has sex with someone else’s wife, 12 cheats the poor, and robs people. He keeps what is given to him as security for a loan. He worships idols, does disgusting things, 13 and charges high interest when lending money. An evil man like that will certainly not live. He is the one who has done these horrible sins, so it’s his own fault that he will be put to death.

14 But suppose this evil man has a son who sees his father do these things and refuses to act like him. 15 He doesn’t eat meat at local shrines or worship Israel’s idols, and he doesn’t have sex with someone else’s wife. 16 He never cheats or robs anyone and doesn’t even demand security for a loan. He gives food and clothes to the poor 17 and refuses to do anything evil[a] or to charge interest. And he obeys all my laws and teachings. Such a man will live. His own father sinned, but this good man will not be put to death for the sins of his father. 18 It is his father who will die for cheating and robbing and doing evil.

19 You may wonder why a son isn’t punished for the sins of his father. It is because the son does what is right and obeys my laws. 20 Only those who sin will be put to death. Children won’t suffer for the sins of their parents, and parents won’t suffer for the sins of their children. Good people will be rewarded for what they do, and evil people will be punished for what they do.

21 Suppose wicked people stop sinning and start obeying my laws and doing right. They won’t be put to death. 22 All their sins will be forgiven, and they will live because they did right. 23 I, the Lord God, don’t like to see wicked people die. I enjoy seeing them turn from their sins and live.

24 But when good people start sinning and doing disgusting things, will they live? No! All their good deeds will be forgotten, and they will be put to death because of their sins.

25 You people of Israel accuse me of being unfair! But listen—I’m not unfair; you are! 26 If good people start doing evil, they must be put to death, because they have sinned. 27 And if wicked people start doing right, they will save themselves from punishment. 28 They will think about what they’ve done and stop sinning, and so they won’t be put to death. 29 But you still say that I am unfair. You are the ones who have done wrong and are unfair!

30 I will judge each of you for what you’ve done. So stop sinning, or else you will certainly be punished. 31 Give up your evil ways and start thinking pure thoughts. And be faithful to me! Do you really want to be put to death for your sins? 32 I, the Lord God, don’t want to see that happen to anyone. So stop sinning and live!

[Prycejosh1987]

On 4/14/2020 at 11:55 AM, *Zion* said:

Jesus came not to do away with the law, but to fulfil it.  What does this then mean when dealing with generational curses?  Can people be subject to generation strongholds and controlling spirits?  Are these judgements/curses automatically broken once one is saved by grace through faith in Christ, or must we deal with them after coming to Him?

What say ye?

Nothing changes on curses, Jesus said we have power over all the enemy. We can be subject to evil unless we fight back. Even the apostles had to deal with Satan after Jesus left and even after they received the holy spirit. For example they kept getting physically beaten up and told not to preach about Jesus. They all died martyrs, who do you think was behind that.