Daniel Marsh Posted April 26, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 126 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 2,088 Content Per Day: 0.57 Reputation: 500 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/03/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/15/1956 Share Posted April 26, 2020 (edited) On 4/25/2020 at 12:50 PM, Billiards Ball said: I've asked for Isaiah exegesis/eisegesis. Please refrain yourself, and stick to Isaiah. All Isaiah 46 is saying is there is one God, The first point in Bowman's outline. Now deal with the outline. Isaiah 41:4Who has performed and done this, calling the generations from the beginning? I am the Lord, the first and with the last—I am he.” Isaiah 41:10Do not fear, for I am with you; do not be afraid, for I am your God. I will strengthen you; I will help you; I will hold on to you with my righteous right hand. Isaiah 41:13For I am the Lord your God, who holds your right hand, who says to you, “Do not fear, I will help you. Isaiah 41:17The poor and the needy seek water, but there is none; their tongues are parched with thirst. I will answer them. I am the Lord, the God of Israel. I will not abandon them. Isaiah 42:6“I am the Lord. I have called you for a righteous purpose, and I will hold you by your hand. I will watch over you, and I will appoint you to be a covenant for the people and a light to the nations, Isaiah 42:8I am the Lord. That is my name, and I will not give my glory to another or my praise to idols. Isaiah 43:3For I am the Lord your God, the Holy One of Israel, and your Savior. I have given Egypt as a ransom for you, Cush and Seba in your place. Isaiah 43:5Do not fear, for I am with you; I will bring your descendants from the east, and gather you from the west. Isaiah 43:10“You are my witnesses”— this is the Lord’s declaration— “and my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. No god was formed before me, and there will be none after me. Isaiah 43:11I—I am the Lord. Besides me, there is no Savior. Isaiah 43:12I alone declared, saved, and proclaimed— and not some foreign god among you. So you are my witnesses”— this is the Lord’s declaration— “and I am God. Isaiah 43:13Also, from today on I am he alone, and none can rescue from my power. I act, and who can reverse it?” Isaiah 43:15I am the Lord, your Holy One, the Creator of Israel, your King. Isaiah 43:19Look, I am about to do something new; even now it is coming. Do you not see it? Indeed, I will make a way in the wilderness, rivers in the desert. Isaiah 43:25“I am the one,I sweep away your transgressions for my own sake and remember your sins no more. Isaiah 44:6[ No God Other Than the Lord ] This is what the Lord, the King of Israel and its Redeemer, the Lord of Armies, says: I am the first and I am the last. There is no God but me.[/b] Isaiah 44:24[ Restoration of Israel through Cyrus ] This is what the Lord, your Redeemer who formed you from the womb, says: I am the Lord, who made everything; who stretched out the heavens by myself; who alone spread out the earth; Isaiah 45:3I will give you the treasures of darkness and riches from secret places, so that you may know that I am the Lord. I am the God of Israel, who calls you by your name. Isaiah 45:5I am the Lord, and there is no other; there is no God but me. I will strengthen you, though you do not know me, Isaiah 45:6so that all may know from the rising of the sun to its setting that there is no one but me. I am the Lord, and there is no other. Isaiah 45:7I form light and create darkness, I make success and create disaster; I am the Lord, who does all these things. Isaiah 45:18For this is what the Lord says— the Creator of the heavens, the God who formed the earth and made it, the one who established it (he did not create it to be a wasteland, but formed it to be inhabited)— he says, “I am the Lord, and there is no other. Isaiah 45:19I have not spoken in secret, somewhere in a land of darkness. I did not say to the descendants of Jacob: Seek me in a wasteland. I am the Lord, who speaks righteously, who declares what is right. Isaiah 45:22Turn to me and be saved, all the ends of the earth. For I am God, and there is no other. Isaiah 46:9Remember what happened long ago, for I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and no one is like me. Isaiah 46:13I am bringing my justice near; it is not far away, and my salvation will not delay. I will put salvation in Zion, my splendor in Israel. Isaiah 47:8“So now hear this, lover of luxury, who sits securely, who says to herself, ‘I am, and there is no one else. I will never be a widow or know the loss of children.’ Isaiah 47:10You were secure in your wickedness; you said, ‘No one sees me.’ Your wisdom and knowledge led you astray. You said to yourself, ‘I am, and there is no one else.’ Isaiah 48:12“Listen to me, Jacob, and Israel, the one called by me: I am he; I am the first, I am also the last. Isaiah 48:17This is what the Lord, your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel says: I am the Lord your God, who teaches you for your benefit, who leads you in the way you should go. Isaiah 49:23Kings will be your guardians and their queens your nursing mothers. They will bow down to you with their faces to the ground and lick the dust at your feet. Then you will know that I am the Lord; those who put their hope in me will not be put to shame. Isaiah 51:12I—I am the one who comforts you. Who are you that you should fear humans who die, or a son of man who is given up like grass? Isaiah 51:15For I am the Lord your God who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar— his name is the Lord of Armies. Isaiah 52:6Therefore my people will know my name; therefore they will know on that day that I am he who says, ‘Here I am.’” Isaiah 56:3No foreigner who has joined himself to the Lord should say, “The Lord will exclude me from his people,” and the eunuch should not say, “Look, I am a dried-up tree.” Isaiah 60:22The least will become a thousand, the smallest a mighty nation. I am the Lord; I will accomplish it quickly in its time. Isaiah 65:1[ The Lord’s Response ] “I was sought by those who did not ask; I was found by those who did not seek me. I said, ‘Here I am, here I am,’ to a nation that did not call on my name. Matthew 16:15“But you,” he asked them, “who do you say that I am?” Matthew 17:5While he was still speaking, suddenly a bright cloud covered them, and a voice from the cloud said, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well-pleased. Listen to him!” Matthew 18:20For where two or three are gathered together in my name, I am there among them.” Matthew 22:32I am the God of Abraham and the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob? He is not the God of the dead, but of the living.” Matthew 23:34This is why I am sending you prophets, sages, and scribes. Some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town. Matthew 28:20teaching them to observe everything I have commanded you. And remember, I am with you always, to the end of the age.” Mark 1:2As it is written in Isaiah the prophet: See, I am sending my messenger ahead of you; he will prepare your way. Mark 8:27[ Peter’s Confession of the Messiah ] Jesus went out with his disciples to the villages of Caesarea Philippi. And on the road he asked his disciples, “Who do people say that I am?” Mark 12:26And as for the dead being raised—haven’t you read in the book of Moses, in the passage about the burning bush, how God said to him: I am the God of Abraham and the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob? Mark 13:6Many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am he,’ and they will deceive many. Mark 14:34He said to them, “I am deeply grieved to the point of death. Remain here and stay awake.” Mark 14:62“I am,” said Jesus, “and you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of Power and coming with the clouds of heaven.” John 5:17[ Honoring the Father and the Son ] Jesus responded to them, “My Father is still working, and I am working also.” John 5:36“But I have a greater testimony than John’s because of the works that the Father has given me to accomplish. These very works I am doing testify about me that the Father has sent me. John 6:35“I am the bread of life,” Jesus told them. “No one who comes to me will ever be hungry, and no one who believes in me will ever be thirsty again. John 6:41Therefore the Jews started grumbling about him because he said, “I am the bread that came down from heaven.” John 6:48I am the bread of life. John 6:51I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread he will live forever. The bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh.” John 7:17If anyone wants to do his will, he will know whether the teaching is from God or whether I am speaking on my own. John 7:28As he was teaching in the temple, Jesus cried out, “You know me and you know where I am from. Yet I have not come on my own, but the one who sent me is true. You don’t know him; John 7:29I know him because I am from him, and he sent me.” John 7:33Then Jesus said, “I am only with you for a short time. Then I’m going to the one who sent me. John 8:12[ The Light of the World ] Jesus spoke to them again: “I am the light of the world. Anyone who follows me will never walk in the darkness but will have the light of life.” John 8:23“You are from below,” he told them, “I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. John 8:24Therefore I told you that you will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I am he, you will die in your sins.” John 8:28So Jesus said to them, “When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am he, and that I do nothing on my own. But just as the Father taught me, I say these things. John 8:42Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, because I came from God and I am here. For I didn’t come on my own, but he sent me. [bJohn 8:58Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, before Abraham was, I am.” John 9:5As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.” John 10:7Jesus said again, “Truly I tell you, I am the gate for the sheep. John 10:9I am the gate. If anyone enters by me, he will be saved and will come in and go out and find pasture. John 10:11“I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. John 10:14“I am the good shepherd. I know my own, and my own know me, John 10:36do you say, ‘You are blaspheming’ to the one the Father set apart and sent into the world, because I said: I am the Son of God? John 10:37If I am not doing my Father’s works, don’t believe me. John 10:38But if I am doing them and you don’t believe me, believe the works. This way you will know and understand that the Father is in me and I in the Father.” John 11:25Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me, even if he dies, will live. John 12:26If anyone serves me, he must follow me. Where I am, there my servant also will be. If anyone serves me, the Father will honor him. John 12:32As for me, if I am lifted up from the earth I will draw all people to myself.” John 13:13You call me Teacher and Lord—and you are speaking rightly, since that is what I am. John 13:19I am telling you now before it happens, so that when it does happen you will believe that I am he. John 13:33Little children, I am with you a little while longer. You will look for me, and just as I told the Jews, so now I tell you, ‘Where I am going, you cannot come.’ John 13:36[ Peter’s Denials Predicted ] “Lord,” Simon Peter said to him, “where are you going?” Jesus answered, “Where I am going you cannot follow me now, but you will follow later.” John 14:2In my Father’s house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I am going to prepare a place for you? John 14:3If I go away and prepare a place for you, I will come again and take you to myself, so that where I am you may be also. John 14:4You know the way to where I am going.” John 14:6Jesus told him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. John 14:10Don’t you believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words I speak to you I do not speak on my own. The Father who lives in me does his works. John 14:11Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me. Otherwise, believe because of the works themselves. John 14:12[ Praying in Jesus’s Name ] “Truly I tell you, the one who believes in me will also do the works that I do. And he will do even greater works than these, because I am going to the Father. John 14:18[ The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit ] “I will not leave you as orphans; I am coming to you. John 14:20On that day you will know that I am in my Father, you are in me, and I am in you. John 14:28You have heard me tell you, ‘I am going away and I am coming to you.’ If you loved me, you would rejoice that I am going to the Father, because the Father is greater than I. John 15:1[ The Vine and the Branches ] “I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. John 15:5I am the vine; you are the branches. The one who remains in me and I in him produces much fruit, because you can do nothing without me. John 16:5But now I am going away to him who sent me, and not one of you asks me, ‘Where are you going?’ John 16:7Nevertheless, I am telling you the truth. It is for your benefit that I go away, because if I don’t go away the Counselor will not come to you. If I go, I will send him to you. John 16:10about righteousness, because I am going to the Father and you will no longer see me; John 16:17Then some of his disciples said to one another, “What is this he’s telling us: ‘In a little while, you will not see me; again in a little while, you will see me,’ and, ‘Because I am going to the Father’?” John 16:26On that day you will ask in my name, and I am not telling you that I will ask the Father on your behalf. John 16:28I came from the Father and have come into the world. Again, I am leaving the world and going to the Father.” John 16:32Indeed, an hour is coming, and has come, when each of you will be scattered to his own home, and you will leave me alone. Yet I am not alone, because the Father is with me. John 17:9“I pray for them. I am not praying for the world but for those you have given me, because they are yours. John 17:10Everything I have is yours, and everything you have is mine, and I am glorified in them. John 17:11I am no longer in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by your name that you have given me, so that they may be one as we are one. John 17:13Now I am coming to you, and I speak these things in the world so that they may have my joy completed in them. John 17:14I have given them your word. The world hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. John 17:21May they all be one, as you, Father, are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us, so that the world may believe you sent me. John 17:23I am in them and you are in me, so that they may be made completely one, that the world may know you have sent me and have loved them as you have loved me. John 17:24“Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, so that they will see my glory, which you have given me because you loved me before the world’s foundation. John 18:5“Jesus of Nazareth,” they answered. “I am he,” Jesus told them. Judas, who betrayed him, was also standing with them. John 18:6When Jesus told them, “I am he,” they stepped back and fell to the ground. John 18:8“I told you I am he,” Jesus replied. “So if you’re looking for me, let these men go.” John 20:17“Don’t cling to me,” Jesus told her, “since I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and tell them that I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.” Acts 7:32I am the God of your ancestors—the God of Abraham, of Isaac, and of Jacob. Moses began to tremble and did not dare to look. Acts 9:5“Who are you, Lord?” Saul said. “I am Jesus, the one you are persecuting,” he replied. Acts 9:10[ Saul’s Baptism ] There was a disciple in Damascus named Ananias, and the Lord said to him in a vision, “Ananias.” “Here I am, Lord,” he replied. Acts 22:8“I answered, ‘Who are you, Lord?’ “He said to me, ‘I am Jesus of Nazareth, the one you are persecuting.’ Acts 26:15“I asked, ‘Who are you, Lord?’ “And the Lord replied, ‘I am Jesus, the one you are persecuting. 1 Corinthians 1:12What I am saying is this: One of you says, “I belong to Paul,” or “I belong to Apollos,” or “I belong to Cephas,” or “I belong to Christ.” Revelation 1:8“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “the one who is, who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.” Revelation 1:17When I saw him, I fell at his feet like a dead man. He laid his right hand on me and said, “Don’t be afraid. I am the First and the Last, Revelation 1:18and the Living One. I was dead, but look—I am alive forever and ever, and I hold the keys of death and Hades. Revelation 3:11I am coming soon. Hold on to what you have, so that no one takes your crown. Revelation 16:15“Look, I am coming like a thief. Blessed is the one who is alert and remains clothed so that he may not go around naked and people see his shame.” Revelation 21:5Then the one seated on the throne said, “Look, I am making everything new.” He also said, “Write, because these words are faithful and true.” Revelation 21:6Then he said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will freely give to the thirsty from the spring of the water of life. Revelation 22:7“Look, I am coming soon! Blessed is the one who keeps the words of the prophecy of this book.” Revelation 22:12“Look, I am coming soon, and my reward is with me to repay each person according to his work. Revelation 22:13I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end. Revelation 22:16“I, Jesus, have sent my angel to attest these things to you for the churches. I am the Root and descendant of David, the bright morning star.” Revelation 22:20He who testifies about these things says, “Yes, I am coming soon.” Amen! Come, Lord Jesus! Isaiah 41:4Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the Lord, the first, and with the last; I am he. Isaiah 43:10Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. Isaiah 43:13Yea, before the day was I am he; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand: I will work, and who shall let it? Isaiah 43:25I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins. Isaiah 46:4And even to your old age I am he; and even to hoar hairs will I carry you: I have made, and I will bear; even I will carry, and will deliver you. Isaiah 48:12Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last. Isaiah 51:12I, even I, am he that comforteth you: who art thou, that thou shouldest be afraid of a man that shall die, and of the son of man which shall be made as grass; Isaiah 52:6Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I. John 8:24I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins. John 8:28Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things. John 9:9Some said, This is he: others said, He is like him: but he said, I am he. John 13:19Now I tell you before it come, that, when it is come to pass, ye may believe that I am he. John 18:5They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them. John 18:6As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground. John 18:8Jesus answered, I have told you that I am he: if therefore ye seek me, let these go their way: Revelation 1:18I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death. Revelation 2:23And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works. Edited April 26, 2020 by Daniel Marsh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Marsh Posted April 26, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 126 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 2,088 Content Per Day: 0.57 Reputation: 500 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/03/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/15/1956 Share Posted April 26, 2020 On 4/22/2020 at 10:07 AM, Billiards Ball said: How is it a strawman argument for a Berean to wonder why some OT verses refer to God as singular and some as a plural majesty? That seems a fair question to me. Do you have an answer from Isaiah, as requested? "plural majesty" is out of historical context too. That concept did not exist until the middle ages. "The majestic plural (pluralis maiestatis in Latin, meaning literally “the plural of majesty”) is the self-referential use of a plural pronoun by a single person holding a high office, such as a monarch, earl, bishop or pope. (Or a proud British prime minister.) It’s thought by some that King Henry II was the first British monarch to use it, when the “divine right of kings” had come into effect and determined that the monarch acted in tandem with the deity. So when he used the word “we”, he actually meant “God and I.” Queen Elizabeth has occasionally made jokey or ironic references to the majestic plural during her reign; on her silver wedding anniversary in 1972, in an address at the Guildhall, she started by saying, “I think everybody really will concede that on this, of all days, I should begin my speech with the words ‘my husband and I’. We — and by that I mean both of us — are most grateful.” " https://www.glossophilia.org/2014/03/the-royal-we-and-other-nosisms/ "The Royal We The most sanctioned example of this is “the royal we,” or pluralis majestatis. Don’t be fooled by the Latin: the royal we has enjoyed popularity far beyond Rome by monarchs, popes, and even university rectors. The origin of this pronoun has been traced variously to 1169, when the English king Henry II used it to mean “God and I,” and to King Richard I, whose use of the pronoun bolstered his claim to be acting in concert with the deity and to be the ruler by divine right. A more recent example of the royal we would be Queen Victoria’s oft- quoted “We are not amused.” " https://www.quickanddirtytips.com/education/grammar/the-royal-we Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Marsh Posted April 26, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 126 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 2,088 Content Per Day: 0.57 Reputation: 500 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/03/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/15/1956 Share Posted April 26, 2020 4 minutes ago, Daniel Marsh said: "plural majesty" is out of historical context too. That concept did not exist until the middle ages. "The majestic plural (pluralis maiestatis in Latin, meaning literally “the plural of majesty”) is the self-referential use of a plural pronoun by a single person holding a high office, such as a monarch, earl, bishop or pope. (Or a proud British prime minister.) It’s thought by some that King Henry II was the first British monarch to use it, when the “divine right of kings” had come into effect and determined that the monarch acted in tandem with the deity. So when he used the word “we”, he actually meant “God and I.” Queen Elizabeth has occasionally made jokey or ironic references to the majestic plural during her reign; on her silver wedding anniversary in 1972, in an address at the Guildhall, she started by saying, “I think everybody really will concede that on this, of all days, I should begin my speech with the words ‘my husband and I’. We — and by that I mean both of us — are most grateful.” " https://www.glossophilia.org/2014/03/the-royal-we-and-other-nosisms/ "The Royal We The most sanctioned example of this is “the royal we,” or pluralis majestatis. Don’t be fooled by the Latin: the royal we has enjoyed popularity far beyond Rome by monarchs, popes, and even university rectors. The origin of this pronoun has been traced variously to 1169, when the English king Henry II used it to mean “God and I,” and to King Richard I, whose use of the pronoun bolstered his claim to be acting in concert with the deity and to be the ruler by divine right. A more recent example of the royal we would be Queen Victoria’s oft- quoted “We are not amused.” " https://www.quickanddirtytips.com/education/grammar/the-royal-we Hi Billiards, the best answer I can give is Bowman's outline and my comments. 1. "plural majesty" came into existence around 1100 AD. 2. Jewish Scholars I often speak with understand, the us in Genesis as being God and his Council https://www.academia.edu/31844032/A_Biblical_Theology_of_the_Divine_Council https://archive.org/stream/pdfy-M2UhkthFkJd_iK2L/Introduction To The Divine Council_djvu.txt 3. Revelation in the Scriptures is progressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Marsh Posted April 26, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 126 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 2,088 Content Per Day: 0.57 Reputation: 500 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/03/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/15/1956 Share Posted April 26, 2020 http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/1521-angelology Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiards Ball Posted April 27, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,502 Content Per Day: 0.66 Reputation: 662 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/05/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted April 27, 2020 (edited) 19 hours ago, Daniel Marsh said: All Isaiah 46 is saying is there is one God, The first point in Bowman's outline. Now deal with the outline. Isaiah 41:4Who has performed and done this, calling the generations from the beginning? I am the Lord, the first and with the last—I am he.”[snip] [/snip] I didn't ask for an outline or for verses outside Isaiah. The point of Isaiah is "whom will you compare the singular God with?" not "I AM" or whatever you're attempting to share with verses without exegesis. Edited April 27, 2020 by Billiards Ball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiards Ball Posted April 27, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,502 Content Per Day: 0.66 Reputation: 662 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/05/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted April 27, 2020 18 hours ago, Daniel Marsh said: "plural majesty" is out of historical context too. That concept did not exist until the middle ages. "The majestic plural (pluralis maiestatis in Latin, meaning literally “the plural of majesty”) is the self-referential use of a plural pronoun by a single person holding a high office, such as a monarch, earl, bishop or pope. (Or a proud British prime minister.) It’s thought by some that King Henry II was the first British monarch to use it, when the “divine right of kings” had come into effect and determined that the monarch acted in tandem with the deity. So when he used the word “we”, he actually meant “God and I.” Queen Elizabeth has occasionally made jokey or ironic references to the majestic plural during her reign; on her silver wedding anniversary in 1972, in an address at the Guildhall, she started by saying, “I think everybody really will concede that on this, of all days, I should begin my speech with the words ‘my husband and I’. We — and by that I mean both of us — are most grateful.” " https://www.glossophilia.org/2014/03/the-royal-we-and-other-nosisms/ "The Royal We The most sanctioned example of this is “the royal we,” or pluralis majestatis. Don’t be fooled by the Latin: the royal we has enjoyed popularity far beyond Rome by monarchs, popes, and even university rectors. The origin of this pronoun has been traced variously to 1169, when the English king Henry II used it to mean “God and I,” and to King Richard I, whose use of the pronoun bolstered his claim to be acting in concert with the deity and to be the ruler by divine right. A more recent example of the royal we would be Queen Victoria’s oft- quoted “We are not amused.” " https://www.quickanddirtytips.com/education/grammar/the-royal-we "Plural majesty" was a poor choice of words on my part. The questioner asked why God in the singular says "Whom will you compare me against?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiards Ball Posted April 27, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,502 Content Per Day: 0.66 Reputation: 662 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/05/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted April 27, 2020 18 hours ago, Daniel Marsh said: Hi Billiards, the best answer I can give is Bowman's outline and my comments. 1. "plural majesty" came into existence around 1100 AD. 2. Jewish Scholars I often speak with understand, the us in Genesis as being God and his Council https://www.academia.edu/31844032/A_Biblical_Theology_of_the_Divine_Council https://archive.org/stream/pdfy-M2UhkthFkJd_iK2L/Introduction To The Divine Council_djvu.txt 3. Revelation in the Scriptures is progressive. So your claim is the OT doesn't describe a trinity (triunity) but only the NT does? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Marsh Posted April 30, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 126 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 2,088 Content Per Day: 0.57 Reputation: 500 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/03/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/15/1956 Share Posted April 30, 2020 On 4/27/2020 at 11:23 AM, Billiards Ball said: So your claim is the OT doesn't describe a trinity (triunity) but only the NT does? If you study Bowman's outline, you will see hints of it there. One of the ways of understanding Scripture is not to read modern concepts into previous Scriptures that were written thousands of years earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Marsh Posted May 1, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 126 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 2,088 Content Per Day: 0.57 Reputation: 500 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/03/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/15/1956 Share Posted May 1, 2020 for encouragement: What hints do you see in these texts? Wisdom 7:21-22 New Revised Standard Version, Anglicised Catholic Edition (NRSVACE) 21 I learned both what is secret and what is manifest, 22 for wisdom, the fashioner of all things, taught me. There is in her a spirit that is intelligent, holy, unique, manifold, subtle, mobile, clear, unpolluted, distinct, invulnerable, loving the good, keen, irresistible, Wisdom 7:25-29 New Revised Standard Version, Anglicised Catholic Edition (NRSVACE) 25 For she is a breath of the power of God, and a pure emanation of the glory of the Almighty; therefore nothing defiled gains entrance into her. 26 For she is a reflection of eternal light, a spotless mirror of the working of God, and an image of his goodness. 27 Although she is but one, she can do all things, and while remaining in herself, she renews all things; in every generation she passes into holy souls and makes them friends of God, and prophets; 28 for God loves nothing so much as the person who lives with wisdom. 29 She is more beautiful than the sun, and excels every constellation of the stars. Compared with the light she is found to be superior, Wisdom 9:1-2 New Revised Standard Version, Anglicised Catholic Edition (NRSVACE) 9 ‘O God of my ancestors and Lord of mercy, who have made all things by your word, 2 and by your wisdom have formed humankind to have dominion over the creatures you have made, Wisdom 9:9 New Revised Standard Version, Anglicised Catholic Edition (NRSVACE) 9 With you is wisdom, she who knows your works and was present when you made the world; she understands what is pleasing in your sight and what is right according to your commandments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiards Ball Posted May 1, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,502 Content Per Day: 0.66 Reputation: 662 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/05/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 1, 2020 13 hours ago, Daniel Marsh said: If you study Bowman's outline, you will see hints of it there. One of the ways of understanding Scripture is not to read modern concepts into previous Scriptures that were written thousands of years earlier. Thanks, that's how I understand scripture. The OT certainly shows God as a plural One. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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