The Antichrist (the coming false messiah)

[Montana Marv]

1 hour ago, Eddy Crocker said:

You can only believe and manifest what’s within at present. And yes the Bible spiritually manifests itself whether it’s now in the present or whether it’s future. 
I personally believe It has already taken place past tense, but to physical eyes it doesn’t appear so because we interpret most things by what our eyes tell us instead of the facts already established in the Bible.
Yes it’s future for those who don’t have the eyes to see now. It’s also now to those who do have the eyes to see and the ears to hear. The states of spiritual unfoldment is according to our faith. The devil being thrown in the lake of fire is a reality already done and finished.
 

The question is are we making that a reality by our faith or is it a fact already? The will be done on earth as its in heaven only takes place as a result of our eyes seeing that as a fact and a reality.

That fact is not done by doing to make it a reality but it’s by seeing it as already done. Done-ness is only a result of our faith in seeing.

The delema is that the A/C and the False Prophet are the first to go into the Lake of Fire. And as of now they have not entered there yet.

So Satan is not there yet according to the Scripture.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Eddy Crocker]

6 minutes ago, Montana Marv said:

The delema is that the A/C and the False Prophet are the first to go into the Lake of Fire. And as of now they have not entered there yet.

So Satan is not there yet according to the Scripture.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Did you read the following comments on Revelation 17:8 on my earlier post. Future is only valid in the realm of time according to your faith. Everything has been finished and predestined from the foundation of the world according to Gods foreknowledge. 

Jude 1:6,

And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

Satan was already been cast out of heaven from the very beginning. His true Judgment is manifested in the realm of time. This reality that’s done in the heavens must be done within us the earth. We are made from the dust of the earth. So this reality must be done in the earth within us. Look at the wording in this scripture.

 

Revelation 17:8 

⁸ The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

This beast which is the Anti Christ or false witness is shown and is said about it in these words. The Beast thou sawest (was) This (was) is past tense  because Christ has already defeated and destroyed him when Christ’s 3 days in the grave and when he resurrected bodily. 

The (is not) is a present reality or a present tense unless you don’t have the eyes to see. The (Yet Is) is because this (Is Not) tense isn’t a present reality in our lives yet. Satan only exists for those outside of the kingdom. Those in this state of the (Yet Is) are the ones that are going to manifest this reality that already is.

They are going to manifest that reality in a future tense as the Revelation of the person of Christ is revealed to them more fully. That’s what Revelation means an unveiling of Jesus Christ within us in the kingdom and not with physical observation like scripture tells us.
 

[Montana Marv]

30 minutes ago, Eddy Crocker said:

Did you read the following comments on Revelation 17:8 on my earlier post. Future is only valid in the realm of time according to your faith. Everything has been finished and predestined from the foundation of the world according to Gods foreknowledge. 

Jude 1:6,

And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

Satan was already been cast out of heaven from the very beginning. His true Judgment is manifested in the realm of time. This reality that’s done in the heavens must be done within us the earth. We are made from the dust of the earth. So this reality must be done in the earth within us. Look at the wording in this scripture.

 

Revelation 17:8 

⁸ The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

This beast which is the Anti Christ or false witness is shown and is said about it in these words. The Beast thou sawest (was) This (was) is past tense  because Christ has already defeated and destroyed him when Christ’s 3 days in the grave and when he resurrected bodily. 

The (is not) is a present reality or a present tense unless you don’t have the eyes to see. The (Yet Is) is because this (Is Not) tense isn’t a present reality in our lives yet. Satan only exists for those outside of the kingdom. Those in this state of the (Yet Is) are the ones that are going to manifest this reality that already is.

They are going to manifest that reality in a future tense as the Revelation of the person of Christ is revealed to them more fully. That’s what Revelation means an unveiling of Jesus Christ within us in the kingdom and not with physical observation like scripture tells us.
 

Yet you are still bound by time. Your earthly body is still aging. You get cut, you bleed. You eat the wrong food, you get gas. Your body has not experienced the resurrection yet.

It is not all finished until Death is swallowed up in victory. Then the New Jerusalem will come out of Heaven to the New Earth.

Your veiw is dead wrong. Revelation is about the future. The Gospel is for us.

We will see more clearly when we see Christ face to face, then we will know. Not before.

It is physical observation like Scripture says.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Edited May 16, 2020 by Montana Marv
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[Mystic_Pizza]

Eddy....your interpretations are confusing, and the fact that you say a person's 'spiritual standing' with God depends on how well they understand what you're saying, is disturbing. You twist, turn, and convolute what you say to the point that it literally doesn't make sense because it is coming and going in so many directions. I'm well able to comprehend the vast majority of what I read, even if I have to read it twice, possibly three times to get the gist of what's being said. But when I read some of the things you've written in this particular forum, the overriding sense I get is that of confusion. And to claim that those who aren't 'getting' what it is your saying are showing that they aren't spiritually 'there' yet? That isn't right at all.

[Eddy Crocker]

8 minutes ago, Mystic_Pizza said:

Eddy....your interpretations are confusing, and the fact that you say a person's 'spiritual standing' with God depends on how well they understand what you're saying, is disturbing. You twist, turn, and convolute what you say to the point that it literally doesn't make sense because it is coming and going in so many directions. I'm well able to comprehend the vast majority of what I read, even if I have to read it twice, possibly three times to get the gist of what's being said. But when I read some of the things you've written in this particular forum, the overriding sense I get is that of confusion. And to claim that those who aren't 'getting' what it is your saying are showing that they aren't spiritually 'there' yet? That isn't right at all.

I will agree to disagree but want to ask you a question about the different tenses of the beast and explain them to me if you can.
 

Because there is the tense of was which I say is past tense because of what Christ did. Then it talks about the is not. What about the is not how do you interpret that? Also the yet is? How is the beast a yet is if it says it’s a is not?

Explain please help me out. I’m not trying to be funny. I just want an honest explanation. I hear people telling me I’m wrong but can’t prove it by their explanation of this. I’m open to your response.

[Eddy Crocker]

19 minutes ago, Montana Marv said:

Yet you are still bound by time. Your earthly body is still aging. You get cut, you bleed. You eat the wrong food, you get gas. Your body has not experienced the resurrection yet.

It is not all finished until Death is swallowed up in victory. Then the New Jerusalem will come out of Heaven to the New Earth.

Your veiw is dead wrong. Revelation is about the future. The Gospel is for us.

We will see more clearly when we see Christ face to face, then we will know. Not before.

It is physical observation like Scripture says.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Yes I agree with you in the physical realm of time. We are supposed to be living in heavenly places in Christ Jesus. Also if ye be risen with Christ which is a rapture or a resurrection. It says further to seek those things above.

We know this scripture is not talking about a physical rapture or physical resurrection because how can you seek those things that are from above if your already there. So this tells me the rapture or resurrection happens while still in the realm of time while in this physical body.

We must remember John was seeing a vision of spiritual realities and things in the state of heaven which is the place. The state is the place.

How can John explain things we can’t see with our physical eyes except he clothe these spiritual realities with allegorical and parabolic analogies with the things that we can relate to which are the things of time. Just beneath this thin Veneer of what we call time to be, is the Kingdom of God. Heaven is a state we live in the realm of time. 

Just because John uses the things of time to bring his point across to a carnal mind doesn’t means these are the realities in themselves. He uses these physical analogies as a vehicle to convey things we can’t see.

Any sign or physical analogies don’t point to themselves as the reality in itself. If a sign said 50 miles to Texas, am I to assume the sign itself is the reality of Texas.

No, I hope we aren’t that shallow. We have to go away from the sign towards where it’s pointing us to. If we don’t go beyond the sign or the vehicle we will never get to the reality of which it points. 

Romans 1:19-20 

¹⁹ Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

²⁰ For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

The Bible uses the physical by which we are to understand the things we can’t see.

[Eddy Crocker]

1 hour ago, Mystic_Pizza said:

Eddy....your interpretations are confusing, and the fact that you say a person's 'spiritual standing' with God depends on how well they understand what you're saying, is disturbing. You twist, turn, and convolute what you say to the point that it literally doesn't make sense because it is coming and going in so many directions. I'm well able to comprehend the vast majority of what I read, even if I have to read it twice, possibly three times to get the gist of what's being said. But when I read some of the things you've written in this particular forum, the overriding sense I get is that of confusion. And to claim that those who aren't 'getting' what it is your saying are showing that they aren't spiritually 'there' yet? That isn't right at all.

I never said spiritual standing with God had to do with whether they are seeing or understanding what I say. It’s about what saith God not about what I say or what saith Eddy Crocker.

A tree is judged by its fruit. Not a self produced fruit of falling short and passing the buck to a future moment. It doesn’t take a maturity or a true faith to pass the buck to a future moment.
True humility is taking the responsibility of the present moment in truly seeing it as now. I said earlier and will say it again. You can only manifest what you are at the present moment.
If you don’t have the eyes to see now then your interpretations will prove it where your at with God at the moment.  It’s not me judging but your life is the true fruit of your judgment of where you stand with God.
I don’t care about any future manifestations of what people say hasn’t come to pass yet. Manifestations only come about by our eyes seeing truth. Once we see it then the manifestations will appear.
 

Manifestations appear in people’s life peppered throughout the realm of time. In eternity these manifestations have happened in the same moment because if I were to die today it would be the same moment as when Moses died in eternity. 
Time is irrelevant. We are trying to judge realities by physical manifestations. We so much miss the spiritual realities because our eyes are focused on the physical.

We don’t think heaven is now because we trust our eyes to portray to us this as a physical reality because with stumble at the physical words in scripture to convey these unseen truths.

[Mystic_Pizza]

6 hours ago, Eddy Crocker said:

The tenses of the beast or Satan is only according to your spiritual maturity. Satan to me was in the past but is not to me in the present reality of the Kingdom.

How you interpret this shows not only me where your at spiritually but exposes yourself to where you really stand in your walk with God.

That's what I was talking about, where you were stating that the way everyone interprets past/present tense shows where they are spiritually, and where they stand in their walk with God.....

The other two posts you made, because I know I will lose this one if I try to go to the last page to find them....I'm going to just wing it, here-

You mentioned something about how could it be stating something that 'was', and 'is no more' and 'would be again' (paraphrasing here), and how I could explain that- well, truth is? I can't explain it- only in the way that I'm understanding it, and my understanding is that the verses are speaking of two separate times- one that has already happened - 'was' - was not happening at the present time - 'is no more' - and yet, 'would be again'- in the future. One example could be Antiochus Epiphanes, when he went into the temple and defiled it by....sacrificing a pig, I think? Don't quote me on it, I'm not totally sure- but I think that's what it was- but then, the scriptures take a sudden turn and start to speak about the future antichrist, and his defilement of the temple by entering and stating that he is 'god'- one has happened (Epiphanes), it's not happening at the moment, the second (antichrist) is a future event.

We are living on this earth, we are inhabitants of time at the moment- God is standing above everything, and seeing the timeline of humanity- everything that has happened, is happening, and future happenings as well, but He is not constrained by time- we are. The things you're talking about are on that timeline, and they have either happened, or haven't happened yet- You may as well say the rapture has already happened, the antichrist has come and gone, history/current events are all one and the same- it's just a big tossed up bit of business, and very confusing to read- at least to me it is.

Let's say for the sake of conjecture, that the mark of the beast is a literal mark- not something spiritual, but an actual mark that goes 'in', or 'on', or whatever the case may be- let's say that...everyone is believing that it isn't an actual, literal mark- and let's suppose that the powers that be come out with a literal, actual mark that people have to take in order to buy/sell/etc., and for the purpose of allegiance to whatever power that mark represents. People who believe that the mark of the beast isn't a 'literal mark' but a 'spiritual one' may actually take that physical mark, because they think it's not the actual mark of the beast- but...what if it is? Remember- things during those days ,

Matt. 24:24 -  For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.
 

I'm not saying I'm right about what I say- this is just what I think, and if there were one point that I would want to make concerning all of it? It would be that we all need to have our roots down deeply in God's word, have a close, personal relationship with Him, and be vigilant- watching what happens, without assuming anything, and comparing it with God's word for these last days.

[Eddy Crocker]

4 minutes ago, Mystic_Pizza said:

That's what I was talking about, where you were stating that the way everyone interprets past/present tense shows where they are spiritually, and where they stand in their walk with God.....

The other two posts you made, because I know I will lose this one if I try to go to the last page to find them....I'm going to just wing it, here-

You mentioned something about how could it be stating something that 'was', and 'is no more' and 'would be again' (paraphrasing here), and how I could explain that- well, truth is? I can't explain it- only in the way that I'm understanding it, and my understanding is that the verses are speaking of two separate times- one that has already happened - 'was' - was not happening at the present time - 'is no more' - and yet, 'would be again'- in the future. One example could be Antiochus Epiphanes, when he went into the temple and defiled it by....sacrificing a pig, I think? Don't quote me on it, I'm not totally sure- but I think that's what it was- but then, the scriptures take a sudden turn and start to speak about the future antichrist, and his defilement of the temple by entering and stating that he is 'god'- one has happened (Epiphanes), it's not happening at the moment, the second (antichrist) is a future event.

We are living on this earth, we are inhabitants of time at the moment- God is standing above everything, and seeing the timeline of humanity- everything that has happened, is happening, and future happenings as well, but He is not constrained by time- we are. The things you're talking about are on that timeline, and they have either happened, or haven't happened yet- You may as well say the rapture has already happened, the antichrist has come and gone, history/current events are all one and the same- it's just a big tossed up bit of business, and very confusing to read- at least to me it is.

Let's say for the sake of conjecture, that the mark of the beast is a literal mark- not something spiritual, but an actual mark that goes 'in', or 'on', or whatever the case may be- let's say that...everyone is believing that it isn't an actual, literal mark- and let's suppose that the powers that be come out with a literal, actual mark that people have to take in order to buy/sell/etc., and for the purpose of allegiance to whatever power that mark represents. People who believe that the mark of the beast isn't a 'literal mark' but a 'spiritual one' may actually take that physical mark, because they think it's not the actual mark of the beast- but...what if it is? Remember- things during those days ,

Matt. 24:24 -  For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.
 

I'm not saying I'm right about what I say- this is just what I think, and if there were one point that I would want to make concerning all of it? It would be that we all need to have our roots down deeply in God's word, have a close, personal relationship with Him, and be vigilant- watching what happens, without assuming anything, and comparing it with God's word for these last days.

Thanks for replying to me. I respect what you say and agree with most of what you say as well. About the mark being physical or spiritual.

Mathew 15:11,

It’s not what enters into the mouth that defiles the man, but what proceeds out of the mouth, this defiles the man."

I quoted this verse because you mentioned if someone thinks it’s not a literal mark but a spiritual one and takes in the physical mark.

I say it’s not what goes into the mouth that defiles the man but only what proceeds or comes out of the man that defiles him. Remember I mentioned we can only manifest what we are or what’s already within us. This was what I was talking about. Jesus says...,

John 14:30,

Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

When Satan has nothing in us his mark of the beast which I believe is the Adamic nature, then if he were to come to us externally then he would amount to nothing to us.

He can only come from the outside working through someone else that is manifesting that past tense state (that was).
We that believe and are walking in the victory of Christ are not manifesting the past tense that was but we are  manifesting that  Satan is the (Is Not) or doesn’t exist in our state of living in the Kingdom.
The (Yet Is) can only exist if we have not the revelation that Satan was already defeated by Jesus and there’s no place any more within heaven. This is why Jesus prepares a place for his disciples to exist in him the kingdom.

Jesus he prepares this place so he could come unto them and where he would be so also they would be as well. Jesus comes to the disciples as that great Holy Spirit on the day of Penticost. When he comes to them that is when there’s no place for Satan because the accuser of the brethren was cast down.

That’s when it says now is come salvation. When salvation truly comes to us when we are truly born again this is when Satan’s nature which is the Adamic nature the mark of the beast is nullified and made void by Salvation which is a person Christ Jesus. This is when he has no place in us like Jesus said in John 14:30. 

[Dennis1209]

On 4/23/2020 at 9:27 PM, Zemke said:

Johns second epistle deals with a false teaching that creates a false gospel. It was something the early church combated and John calls the teaching that Jesus did not come in the flesh anti-Christ.  

A false gospel is against the true gospel but at the same time is another gospel. It takes the place of the gospel. Anti-Christ is not only against but in place of. 

There is a reason the man of sin wants to be worshiped in the temple of God. There is a reason he will be given three and a half years. It's a pattern. 

Most of the prophecies about the first coming of Messiah where fulfilled in the life of Jesus. Most of those where fulfilled in the last three and a half years and most of those in the last week. I suspect the second coming will be somewhat like the first in pattern.

Many leaders in history wanted to be worshiped as god or a god. This is the spirit of anti-Christ. Yes it is against but also in place of.

 

Hebrews 13:8 (KJV) Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

The Bible is chockful of symbolism, types, shadows and especially patterns. Dispensations [ That which is dispensed or bestowed; a system of principles and rites enjoined; as the Mosaic dispensation; the gospel dispensation; including, the former the Levitical law and rites; the latter the scheme of redemption by Christ.] are clearly seen and marked in scripture. 

Ecclesiastes 1:9 (KJV) The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

Luke 17:26 (KJV) And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.

History is cyclic and has and will exactly repeat itself in like manner. I totally agree with your theology. I do find the following secular magazine picture ironic and telling of what's shortly coming.