Salvation...Can it be lost???

[Tari]

It surprises me how many people believe in totally being saved, and their eternal salvation never being lost. It's just hard to understand because our God is such a strict God. It seems like your God given common sense alone would warn you that this is going to take quite a commitment. There is such an easy fast salvation theory going on in todays society. Repentence of sins alone can be quite a task. Considering in todays world we are bombarded with, say for instance, visual signs of sin everywhere. It's all over the television, and all over advertising everywhere. Just trying to clear our minds alone of sin and lust, material desires etc... etc... This takes a lot of work to clear our minds of such things. That's not even considering the many people who physically act out on such sins. Just this aspect alone, I am sure it is important to have a pure thought process. Easy salvation just does not cut it in todays world. Corrupt minds and hearts are not acceptable to God. Just my own opinion in these wee hours.

[halifaxchristian]

It surprises me how many people believe in totally being saved, and their eternal salvation never being lost. It's just hard to understand because our God is such a strict God. It seems like your God given common sense alone would warn you that this is going to take quite a commitment. There is such an easy fast salvation theory going on in todays society. Repentence of sins alone can be quite a task. Considering in todays world we are bombarded with, say for instance, visual signs of sin everywhere. It's all over the television, and all over advertising everywhere. Just trying to clear our minds alone of sin and lust, material desires  etc... etc... This takes a lot of work to clear our minds of such things. That's not even considering the many people who physically act out on such sins. Just this aspect alone, I am sure it is important to have a pure thought process. Easy salvation just does not cut it in todays world. Corrupt minds and hearts are not acceptable to God. Just my own opinion in these wee hours.

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BLASHPEMY!!! Salvation is very easy...in fact, it's the easiest thing anyone can do. The hard part was done by Jesus Himself. Let's not fall prey to the "works" salvation...clothe it how you may, any doctrine that takes away from the "repent ye and believe the Gospel" message is an outright LIE!!! Salvation is easy...always has been, always will. The hard part is the before and after.

God bless.

[Khristeeanos]

1Diem

Yeah, weird isn't it? We can be filthy yet by God we can be clean. I know grace is a new concept to you, but that's what it is.

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[Pilgrim7]

Tari, I love the Word, it has all the answers,

MAT 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad (easy) is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth

unto life, and few there be that find it.

7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep

Edited August 7, 2005 by Pilgrim7

[halifaxchristian]

I believe in the same Scriptures as you...what's your point???

[halifaxchristian]

By the way, "narrow is the way" does not mean "hard". The door is One...but it is not locked, stuck, or jammed.

God bless.

Edited August 7, 2005 by halifaxchristian

[Remnantrob]

By the way, "narrow is the way" does not mean "hard". The door is One...but it is not locked, stuck, or jammed.

God bless.

Funny......I thought that was the meaning of "narrow is the way".

Oh well, happy posting.

[halifaxchristian]

Remantrob...agree or disagree...I always enjoy your posts!!!

[Remnantrob]

ditto

[apothanein kerdos]

1Diem

Yeah, weird isn't it? We can be filthy yet by God we can be clean. I know grace is a new concept to you, but that's what it is.

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I know that may be harsh, but you have a vast misunderstanding of what grace is. What you teach goes against the very definition of what grace is.

You say that you believe what you do because the Greek says it. I have a Greek Dictionary as well and still don't come up with the same conclusions you do

I didn't use a Greek dictionary. I speak, read, and write in Koine Greek. Dictionaries give you every definition of the word but they don't show you the context or how it is to be used in context. I did that for you.

Also, you say experts say the same thing. I can give you experts that will say just the opposite. There are experts, educated men that believe different on every imaginable doctrine.

There are men that will tell us we can give up our salvation by speaking the words. However, I do not know of any educated person that believes simply by sinning we give up our salvation. The reason for this is that it's a heretical doctrine.

You say it is arrogance to say I do not need to rely on educated men that have studied all their lives for help interpreting the Word, that just relying on the Spirit is not enough. I disagree. Again, how do I know which of these men are telling me the truth? I guess if you take that position, why not go back to the day when only the Catholic Priests had access to the Word, and rely on them to tell us all we need?

I am merely saying to discount someone because you "can't know" is wrong. Go take some classes, learn Greek, learn church history, and learn systematic theology. That way when commentaries are used you can get a general idea of if the person is correct or not.

esus said in John 16:12,13 "I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now: Howbeit, when he the spirit of truth is come, he will guide you into all truth: For he shall not speak of himself: but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak, and he will shew you things to come." Jesus said the Spirit would be our teacher. I guess to believe this is arrogance. I will trust in what Jesus says over what man says any day.

You hold a dualistic paradigm when you believe that the spirit will not use man or the education of men.

While all the Baptist doctrine may not be directly from Calvin, the key doctrine they promote, unconditional eternal security is.

No its not. It isn't the key doctrine. While state in their doctrine of beliefs, they also list it with a plethera of scriptures. Not to mention Calvin wasn't the first person to come up with this theory. You may want to look in the first and second centuries, this is when the doctrine began to form.

There is a difference between wilful sin and sins we did not intend to commit, just as there is a difference between manslaughter and first degree murder. In one case, it was an accident, in the other a planned out homicide. Also, if there is no difference, why was the word wilfully used in Hebrews 10:26 where it says, "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins." Was the word wilfully put there just to reach a certain amount of words?

The Greek word gives off the idea of sinning in weakness, when we cannot really protect ourselves. In essence there are certain sins committed because we are not strong enough to resist them. Other sins, the one the writer of Hebrews is speaking of, are ones we can prevent but choose not to. Regardless, as proven in my post, this scripture is refering to an earthly judgement of Christians and not an eternal one. Again, Paul even refers to this in Corinthians when a man is to be judged by God by being cast away, yet his soul still belongs to God.

Also, when Paul speaks of being a castaway, he means just that. He means winding up in hell. I do not agree with your interpretation.

Too bad because it is biblically based and shown through context, Greek, and with the light of other Biblical scriptures. Your interpretation relies on the passage being used in a vacuum, mine relies on using proper exegesis.

The reason God disciplines us when we sin, is it is his desire for us to be saved.

Problem with that. Hebrews says He only disciplines HIS CHILDREN.

Paul did not lie about nothing being able to separate us from the love of Christ. As long as we are living for Jesus, nothing can,

That is not found within that scripture (infact, it seems to imply the opposite) or anywhere else in the Bible. If God takes away our salvation everytime we sin, then I want nothing to do with Him for He would be evil.

Again, I do not believe I have misinterpreted the story of the virgins. That is merely my interpretation versus yours. I believe all 10 were saved originally, and while I can not prove to you I am right, neither can you prove I am wrong. It is a matter of opinion.

Too bad the context doesn't agree with what you're saying. The 10 Virgins are representative of Israel whereas the Bridegroom is representative of Christ. Christ had just finished talking about the tribulation and what would occur. Now He is telling the Jews to be prepared for it. The bride that the Bridegroom is comming for is the Church...so it's impossible for the 10 virgins to already be CHristians otherwise they would be with the bride. The oil, though not specified, must refer to the Holy Spirit and His work in salvation. Thus, the 10 virgins are Jews that know the comming of their Messiah is near, yet some choose not to rely on the Holy Spirit and are subsequently left during the tribulation. This is what the context teaches us.

If you hadn't, I would have had to have concluded you came to your conclusions through careful study of the scriptures, relying soley on the Holy Spirit for help, not biased commentaries.

I did do my own study, I merely used commentaries to see if I was heading in the right direction. Are you saying that the Holy Spirit was not consulted when these men wrote their commentaries? That sure is a big, and arrogant claim.

Indeed, all have sinned, but all do not sin wilfully after salvation.

Not according to Paul or John.

Paul considered himself to be the chief of sinners because of the evil deeds he did before his Damascus Road experience, not afterward.

Wrong. He clarified it in another epitsle saying the htings he wanted to do he didn't do. He used the "Chief of sinners" in the present tense, meaning he saw the actions he did then as qualifying him as the chief of sinners.

There is a difference between Jehovah God and the pagan gods. Jehovah is God, and the other gods are mere idols. The Bible makes it clear God is a God of judgement as well as one of love, so if that brings you to the conclusion he is no better than the pagan gods so be it.

He is also a God of mercy and grace, this you seem to forget. It is possible to be chastized while HIs. In fact, the only way to be disciplined is to be His child...at least according to scripture.