Mike 2 Posted September 19, 2021 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 499 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 277 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/06/2016 Status: Offline Author Share Posted September 19, 2021 17 hours ago, missmuffet said: The Holy Spirit is God. Do you not know that? Oh yes I definately know that but I think a lot of people are confused in how "God" works. I believe that the definition of the Trinity is antiquated, that is, the meaning of three persons in one is different today than it was 1700 years ago when the theologians of the time were trying to describe how these 3 different references to God were related, and as the word "person" is understood today it is causing a lot of confusion. At the time that the Trinity doctrine was being formed there was a lot of heated discussion, so much so that some views were considered herectical and those that shared those views were ostricised or even persecuted. The way the definition was understood then is different then the way it is understood today (particularly among laypeople), much like when someone says "you suck" today means 'you're not very good at it' but 50 or 60 years ago if you said that to someone you would have been slapped in the face. To make matters worse, today, in trying to understand the the Holy Spirit as a person, many people try to personify the Holy Spirit by dropping the word "the" from in front of Holy Spirit, that's not biblical. Its no different than dropping "the" from in front of the policeman, the butcher, the hockey player, instead of talking to the policeman you would be talking to policeman, if that is done policeman now becomes personified. Would you call me "the" mike2 or mike2? I think in trying to understand the Trinity as our man made doctrine defines it we are missing out on a clear description of how we are made in the image of God, we are missing on the make-up of God and how the creation proccess works, both in God and, because we are made in his image, in us. We miss out on seeing the perfection in God and therefore understanding the inperfection in us, where, in our decision making proccess we are flawed. There is a proccess that proceeds from the Father through the Holy Spirit that is then manifested (created ) out into the physical world (by the Sons). The gospel of John is one of the best places to find this described but there are other biblical references as well. I am thinking that because we consider them as 3 different persons we are giving each one of them the 3 in 1 creation proccess (which includes the initial thought, the deciding how to do it and the actually doing it) when we should really be looking at the Trinity as the 3 of them together making up the creation proccess within God and together make up God.....now before someone says "each one is God" consider thoughtfully what I just wrote. Each one is God, but the Father or Holy Spirit is not all of God, the 3 must be together (as we see in the Son) to be all of God, they cannot work independantly ........ and ....... ..........hence my question....... Does the Holy Spirit have free will? and I might add on to this..... if we create in a similar way, where is it in the proccess that sin has its effect? (Rom 7:13-20) ......I don't think the Holy Spirit struggles with this........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted September 19, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,991 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,689 Content Per Day: 11.80 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted September 19, 2021 3 hours ago, Mike 2 said: Oh yes I definately know that but I think a lot of people are confused in how "God" works. I believe that the definition of the Trinity is antiquated, that is, the meaning of three persons in one is different today than it was 1700 years ago when the theologians of the time were trying to describe how these 3 different references to God were related, and as the word "person" is understood today it is causing a lot of confusion. At the time that the Trinity doctrine was being formed there was a lot of heated discussion, so much so that some views were considered herectical and those that shared those views were ostricised or even persecuted. The way the definition was understood then is different then the way it is understood today (particularly among laypeople), much like when someone says "you suck" today means 'you're not very good at it' but 50 or 60 years ago if you said that to someone you would have been slapped in the face. To make matters worse, today, in trying to understand the the Holy Spirit as a person, many people try to personify the Holy Spirit by dropping the word "the" from in front of Holy Spirit, that's not biblical. Its no different than dropping "the" from in front of the policeman, the butcher, the hockey player, instead of talking to the policeman you would be talking to policeman, if that is done policeman now becomes personified. Would you call me "the" mike2 or mike2? I think in trying to understand the Trinity as our man made doctrine defines it we are missing out on a clear description of how we are made in the image of God, we are missing on the make-up of God and how the creation proccess works, both in God and, because we are made in his image, in us. We miss out on seeing the perfection in God and therefore understanding the inperfection in us, where, in our decision making proccess we are flawed. There is a proccess that proceeds from the Father through the Holy Spirit that is then manifested (created ) out into the physical world (by the Sons). The gospel of John is one of the best places to find this described but there are other biblical references as well. I am thinking that because we consider them as 3 different persons we are giving each one of them the 3 in 1 creation proccess (which includes the initial thought, the deciding how to do it and the actually doing it) when we should really be looking at the Trinity as the 3 of them together making up the creation proccess within God and together make up God.....now before someone says "each one is God" consider thoughtfully what I just wrote. Each one is God, but the Father or Holy Spirit is not all of God, the 3 must be together (as we see in the Son) to be all of God, they cannot work independantly ........ and ....... ..........hence my question....... Does the Holy Spirit have free will? and I might add on to this..... if we create in a similar way, where is it in the proccess that sin has its effect? (Rom 7:13-20) ......I don't think the Holy Spirit struggles with this........... What you are teaching is simply false. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appy Posted September 19, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 23 Topic Count: 133 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 2,864 Content Per Day: 0.62 Reputation: 2,596 Days Won: 2 Joined: 08/07/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted September 19, 2021 4 hours ago, Mike 2 said: I believe that the definition of the Trinity is antiquated, that is, the meaning of three persons in one is different today than it was 1700 years ago when the theologians of the time were trying to describe how these 3 different references to God were related, and as the word "person" is understood today it is causing a lot of confusion. Huh? What is different today, than 1700 years ago... What has changed? The concept of the trinity is introduced in various places in the Old Testament and expounded on in the New Testament. Jesus spoke of the trinity in his earthly ministry. The concept of the trinity comes directly from scripture itself and taught by Jesus. The Jewish rabbi's fully understood the teaching of Jesus' claim to be God, and the teaching of the trinity of God. The concept, was unmistakable, for the Rabbi's wanted to stone Jesus. Along with the claims of Jesus to be equal to God, He also taught that the Holy Spirit had a similar identity. He used a single name to refer God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. The Matthew passage below, describes three persons, distinct in their own identity but equally the same in nature. Together, they share a name and authority as God. We agree that God is invisible and is up in heaven, we are down here on earth. He is infinite and we are finite. God is more complex than our human minds can comprehend, thus we should accept the doctrine of the trinity by faith, even though we are not fully able to comprehend it. Matthew 28:19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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