The Pre Tribulation Raptured Church

[The Light]

11 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Like I said, water off a duck's back.  There is NO PROOF these verses are to the 12 tribes!  (1 Thes. 4 & 5.) Did no just not notice these scriptures were written to GENTILES - the GENTILE church of Thessaloniki? You amaze me! 

The church will already be in heaven before the seals are opened.  MYTH, you have zero proof. 

See Rev 5  Been there: water off a duck's back Your theories there have been proven wrong. This answer won't work. 

the 24 elders speaking for a group of people.  No, speaking OF a groups of people: all those Jesus died for. 

How could you possibly see if you don't understand that seals are not opened.

How could you possibly see if you don't understand that the 4 horsemen of the Apocalypse doesn't include Jesus on a white horse, but a false Christ that was warned about in Matt 24.

How could you possibly see if you don't understand the 12 tribes across the earth will not have their eyes opened until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.

How could you possibly see if you don't understand that the 70th week of Daniel takes place in the 1st 6 seals.

How could you possibly see if you don't understand that the 5th seal is the Great Tribulation as proven by Rev 7, Rev 14, Rev 15, Matt 24, Dan 12.

How could you possibly see if you don't understand that the God will keep His promise and regraft His people.

How could you possibly see if you don't understand that the mystery of God and His wrath is finished when the 7th angel begins to sound the trumpet.

How could you possibly see if you don't understand that Jesus and John are in complete agreement about end times. Rev 6 written by John lines up perfectly with Matt 24 as spoken by Jesus.

How could you possibly see if you don't understand that the cosmic signs in Rev 6 are the same cosmic signs of Matt 24.

How could you possibly see if you don't understand that the coming of Jesus in Matt 24 is the same coming of Jesus in Rev 6 and Rev 14.

How could you possibly see if you don't understand that from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

How could you possibly see if you don't understand that Rev 13 and 14 and part of Rev 12 occurs during the seals.

All can be supported by scripture.

How can you possibly see that there will be a pretribulation rapture. Good job there.

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, The Light said:

How could you possibly see if you don't understand that seals are not opened.

How could you possibly see if you don't understand that the 4 horsemen of the Apocalypse doesn't include Jesus on a white horse, but a false Christ that was warned about in Matt 24.

So you have built this huge structure of your theory of Revelation, based, not on a good understsanding of the TEXT, but if imagination. You have supported NOTHING by real scripture, only by things imagined, such as the 24 elders PROVING a rapture. 

Pure imagination; while the truth rolls off your back like water off a duck's back. 

seals are not opened.  What is written? What does God's word say? We can't go by imagination. You may, most won't. 

Rev. 5: 6  And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth. 7  And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.

WHEN did He "took the book?" Well, at the same time the Holy Spirit was "sent forth into all the earth." When was that? When Jesus ascended and was seen by John s "a Lamb as it had been slain."  The written word of God shows your theory as wrong. Jesus got the book and began opening seals as soon as he ascended. 

doesn't include Jesus on a white horse, but a false Christ  First a straw man; no one is saying Jesus on the white horse. In fact, I could of ANY of these horses and riders are real; I think they are symbols to REPRESENT things: the white horse and rider to represent the CHURCH sent forth. Why is this so difficult? John has pointed to the right time by Jesus Ascension and the Holy Spirit sent down. We know that is when He sent the church out, so the TIMING matches. We know John used the color white 16 other times, all the represent righteousness or something Godly. It is silly to imagine God would use white 16 times for something good, then once for the Antichrist. We know the church had to conquer the principalities and powers of the spirit world to advance the gospel.  We know this crown of victory is for FINAL or ULTIMATE victory, which fits the church, but does not fit the Antichrist.  In fact, NOTHING there fits the Antichrist. People must use IMAGINATION to come up with that. There is NOT ONE WORD about the first seal that would give any hint of evil. 

OF COURSE, if the Antichrist Beast got to choose his OWN color in God's book, he would probably choose white. But what color has God chosen for him? Fiery RED!  Yes, false Christs would come, and they have come. But at the same time Jesus ascended and sent down the Holy Spirit? HARDLY!

Then, finally, JESUS said, "the end is not yet," showing the readers that HE WAS NOT TALKING ABOUT END TIMES with the false Christs, earthquakes, famines, pestilences wars, rumors of wars ETC, but rather the ENTIRE CHURCH AGE. 

Your argument fails. 

Edited August 19, 2020 by iamlamad

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, The Light said:

How could you possibly see if you don't understand the 12 tribes across the earth will not have their eyes opened until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.

How could you possibly see if you don't understand that the 70th week of Daniel takes place in the 1st 6 seals.

the 12 tribes across the earth will not have their eyes opened until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.  I am wondering what this has to do with the subject. This is a true statement. But this begs the question, WHEN? It would be the timing of Paul's rapture, and Paul is clear in timing. HIS rapture / gathering is just before wrath, as the rapture being the trigger for wrath. In Revelation that can only be just before wrath starts there, and that is at the 6th seal. Paul's rapture will come a moment before the 6th seal. You are close, saying Christ comes AT the 6th seal. Always remember, the gun does not go off first, the trigger is pulled first and THEN the gun goes off. Jesus coming will be the trigger for the rapture events and then the Start of the Day of the Lord. You have the gun going off before the trigger is pulled. Jesus coming STARTS the rapture events.  So WHEN will their eyes get opened? When God starts the 70th week of Daniel - chapter 8. It is THEIR week, not the church's week. 

the 70th week of Daniel takes place in the 1st 6 seals. MYTH. No one will believe you if you just make a statement without proof. And for this, you have ZERO proof. Let's go step by step. Perhaps the water will not roll off if we got step by step.

Daniel 9:27  ... in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease...[The Greek word for Midst means to divide in half. It is used for midnight many times. So the WEEK will be divided in half. ]

Dan. 7:25  And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. [half of a week of 7 years]

Dan. 12:7  And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished. [half of a week of 7 years]

Daniel proves the week is divided into two equal halves.  So does Revelation:

Rev. 11:2  But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

Rev. 11:3  And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

Rev. 12:6  And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

Rev. 12:14  And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

Rev. 13:5   And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

Now we have seven proofs that the week is divided in half. and in Revelation, this division point is in chapters 11, 12, and 13.  Note carefully: if the MIDPOINT of the week is somewhere in chapters 11, 12, or 13, then the FIRST HALF of the week must be in previous chapters, and the SECOND HALF Of the week must be in later chapters. For those that know, the first half of the week is from chapter 8 to chapter 11, and the second half of the week is from chapter 11 to chapter 16. The ENTIRE WEEK is from chapter 8 to chapter 16. 

Your theory here is based on smoke and mirrors and the wind just blew away the smoke.  Here is PROOF from the written word of God that the REAL 70th week goes from Rev. chapter 8 to chapter 16. 

Edited August 19, 2020 by iamlamad

[iamlamad]

On 8/19/2020 at 10:37 AM, The Light said:

How could you possibly see if you don't understand that the 5th seal is the Great Tribulation as proven by Rev 7, Rev 14, Rev 15, Matt 24, Dan 12.

How could you possibly see if you don't understand that the God will keep His promise and regraft His people.

the 5th seal is the Great Tribulation  Just more myth and spin: smoke and mirrors, imagination. 

Rev 7: ...These are they which came out of great tribulation...   
Sorry, any group in chapter 7 comes LATER than any group from chapter 5. These are certainly not the same group. Martyrs are certainly only a SMALL PERCENTAGE of the whole group of believers. In seal 5 we have a small percentage. In chapter 7, we have BOTH those from chapter 5 and all the rest of those who are "In Christ."  So Revelation 7 cannot be used as an argument for seal 5. The TIMING Is different and they are just different groups. This argument fails.

Rev. 14. Rev. 15: the timing is WAY OFF for anything in these chapters to relate to the 5th seal.  Whether you believe it or not, TIME PASSES as Revelation progresses through chapters. Revelation 5 is church age, while Rev. 14 and 15 are 70th week that comes AFTER the church age. This argument of Revelation 14 and 15 fails. 

Matthew 24:9  Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you...

Yes, there is this verse in Matthew 24 that speaks of church age martyrs. Oh, this chapter in Matthew does speak of GT, but it is the tribulation that starts after the midpoint of the week (chapters 11,12,13.) It certainly cannot pertain to anything in the church age. The written Word proves that the days of GT Jesus spoke of (Matthew 24) cannot start until after the abomination. It is in Jesus own words. And John proves the abomination in chapters 11-13. Therefore, this argument of Matthew 24 fails. It is talking about a different time, and a different GT. 
 

Daniel 12. Daniel 12:1 begins at the midpoint of the week, when as Jesus said would be after the abomination. AGain, John proves the abomination that divides the week in chapters 11, 12, or 13, so this argument fails. 

It is just as I said from the beginning: just like water off a duck's back. Preconceptions SO STRONG, nothing soaks in; all just rolls off.  The truth is, YOU DON'T BELIEVE John that the midpoint of the week is in chapters 11, 12, and 13. You don't believe those 5 mentions of the last half of week are really that: LAST HALF. I will start calling with Water Of a Ducks Back or WODB syndrome! 

OF COURSE He will re-graft His people, but that only AFTER He returns and they SEE the nail holes in His hands. 

Edited August 21, 2020 by iamlamad

[The Light]

On 8/19/2020 at 1:13 PM, iamlamad said:

the 5th seal is the Great Tribulation  Just more myth and spin: smoke and mirrors, imagination. 

Rev 7: ...These are they which came out of great tribulation...   
Sorry, any group in chapter 7 comes LATER than any group from chapter 5. These are certainly not the same group. Martyrs are certainly only a SMALL PERCENTAGE of the whole group of believers. In seal 5 we have a small percentage. In chapter 7, we have BOTH those from chapter 5 and all the rest of those who are "In Christ."  So Revelation cannot be used as an argument for seal 5. The TIMING Is different and they are just different groups. This argument fails.

Right, what was I thinking. This couldn't possibly be referring to the great tribulation.

Rev 6

⁹ And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

¹⁰ And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

¹¹ And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Nor could this possibly be referring to the great tribulation.

Rev 7

¹³ And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

¹⁴ And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Nor could the fact that Rev 6 lines up perfectly with Matt 24, and we can clearly see that the great tribulation is in Matt 24.

And those cosmic signs in Rev 6 that can be seen in Matt 24, just before the coming of Jesus in both Rev 6 and Matt 24 are just another coincidence. Can't possibly mean a thing.

And I certainly would look at the great tribulation in Rev 14 and the coming of Jesus in Rev 14 as just another coincidence.

And those in Rev 15 that come out of the great tribulation singing the song of Moses couldn't possibly be of the 12 tribes.

And seed of the woman couldn't possibly be of the 12 tribes.

It's all just a coincidence. However, if we insert your IMAGINARY coming of Jesus at the end of the 5th seal, and pretend the the rider on the white horse in the 1st seal is Jesus, and pretend that the daily sacrifice is taken away on the same day at the abomination of desolation is set up, we can pound all this into a timeline with our handy sledge.

On 8/19/2020 at 1:13 PM, iamlamad said:

 

Rev. 14. Rev. 15: the timing is WAY OFF for anything in these chapters to relate to the 5th seal.  Whether you believe it or not, TIME PASSES as Revelation progresses through chapters. Revelation 5 is church age, while Rev. 14 and 15 are 70th week that comes AFTER the church age. This argument of Revelation 14 and 15 fails. 

Baloney comes to mind.

On 8/19/2020 at 1:13 PM, iamlamad said:

Matthew 24:9  Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you...

Yes, there is this verse in Matthew 24 that speaks of church age martyrs. Oh, this chapter in Matthew does speak of GT, but it is the tribulation that starts after the midpoint of the week (chapters 11,12,13.) It certainly cannot pertain to anything in the church age. The written Word proves that the days of GT Jesus spoke of (Matthew 24) cannot start until after the abomination. It is in Jesus own words. And John proves the abomination in chapters 11-13. Therefore, this argument of Matthew 24 fails. It is talking about a different time, and a different GT. 

Yeah, a different Great Tribulation. How many great tribulations are there.?

On 8/19/2020 at 1:13 PM, iamlamad said:

Daniel 12. Daniel 12:1 begins at the midpoint of the week, when as Jesus said would be after the abomination. AGain, John proves the abomination that divides the week in chapters 11, 12, or 13, so this argument fails. 

It only fails if you cast aside this verse, which of course you do. Why don't you use your imagination and figure out what happens 1290 days after the daily sacrifice is taken away.

Dan 12

¹¹ And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

On 8/19/2020 at 1:13 PM, iamlamad said:

It is just as I said from the beginning: just like water off a duck's back. Preconceptions SO STRONG, nothing soaks in; all just rolls off.  The truth is, YOU DON'T BELIEVE John that the midpoint of the week is in chapters 11, 12, and 13. You don't believe those 5 mentions of the last half of week are really that: LAST HALF. I will start calling with Water Of a Ducks Back or WODB syndrome! 

OF COURSE He will re-graft His people, but that only AFTER He returns and they SEE the nail holes in His hands. 

Yeah, preconceived ideas. I read what the Word said and preconceived what it meant. You tossed aside the scripture and let you imagination be your guide.

I must admit, my favorite is that imaginary coming of Jesus at the end of the 5th seal. No scriptural evidence whatsoever. Then when Jesus comes at the 6th seal, you can't admit it because that would mean that the coming of Jesus in Matt 24 is the same as Rev 6. Lots of problems and lots of holes in what you are touting.

[iamlamad]

12 hours ago, The Light said:

 

Rev 7

¹³ And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

¹⁴ And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Nor could the fact that Rev 6 lines up perfectly with Matt 24, and we can clearly see that the great tribulation is in Matt 24.

Nor could the fact that Rev 6 lines up perfectly with Matt 24, and we can clearly see that the great tribulation is in Matt 24.

Please spend some time on this statement: show us HOW this alignment "lines up perfectly."

Both does use the term, "great tribulation." However, in Matthew 24 the "great tribulation" follows the abomination.  Just because one finds two words the same, does not prove two passages are speaking of the same thing. Therefore, show us.

[iamlamad]

12 hours ago, The Light said:

And those cosmic signs in Rev 6 that can be seen in Matt 24, just before the coming of Jesus in both Rev 6 and Matt 24 are just another coincidence. Can't possibly mean a thing.

Once again, you see two words, "sun" and "moon" in two different passage and assume they are speaking of the same events. Water off a duck's back. The classic WODB syndrome. 

For two passage to align "perfectly" as you said, every detail must fit. 

You imagine, because you saw two words, "great" and "tribulation" in Matthew 24 that there is "perfect alignment between Matthew 24 and Rev. 7. 

First, let's discuss WHO will cause those days of GT? I think John tells us: the Beast and False Prophet. They are not seen in Revelation until chapter 13

Second, WHAT will cause those days of GT? Again, John tells us: it will be the Beast and False prophet (leading their armies and probably the armies of the world) FORCING the worship of an image, upon the threat of losing one's head, and FORCE people to receive a mark, again upon the threat of losing one's head. NO ONE will WANT to lose their head, so there will be flight, then the hunting down and capturing all who refuse to worship or take the mark. This is what will CAUSE those days of GT. 

Third, Jesus said those days of GT would come AFTER the abomination - and Daniel 9 tells us this abomination will divide the week into two halves. Where do we find reference to two halves of the week? John gives us 5 countdowns that will start at the midpoint and countdown to the end of the week: two in days, two in months and one in years. These are found in chapters 11 through 13, PROVING this are midpoint chapters - midpoint of the 70th week.  Jesus said the days of GT would come AFTER this abomination that will divide the week, so the days of GT Jesus spoke of must come AFTER chapters 11-13. 

Considering my second point, that enforcing the mark will CAUSE the days of GT, God sends His warning not to take the mark, by way of an angel as written in chapter 14, showing us again that the days of GT JESUS spoke of will not even start until after the warning. 

And you imagine that two words in two different passages outweights real PROOF?  WODB syndrome. 

In Matthew 24:  " Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her lightDarkened: skotizō Strong's:

  to cover with darkness, to darken
to be covered with darkness, be darkened
of heavenly bodies as deprived of light

Think: how is someone to see the sun if it is deprived of light? 
How is one to see the moon when the sun is not reflecting off the moon?
I submit, both are invisible. 
In Revelation very late in the week, one of the vials will CAUSE total darkness. God simply turns off all lights, so not even any starlight. Then Jesus spoke of his coming appearing like lightning flashing across the sky. that hints strongly of darkness also. 

Compare with the 6th seal:
Sun appears black as sackcloth - Exactly what is seen at a total eclipse. in other words, people SEE the sun to know.
The moon to appear blood red - Exactly what is seen at a total eclipse.  in other words, people SEE the moon to know.

Think: The 6th seal is chapters before the abomination or midpoint of the week, proven to be in chapters 11 to 13. Therefore it is before ANY PART of the 70th week. So we have a TIMING issue. 

And you imagine, two words the same, both passages mention the sun and the moon, OUTWEIGHT real PROOF of scripture? 
WODB syndrome. 

[iamlamad]

13 hours ago, The Light said:

And I certainly would look at the great tribulation in Rev 14 and the coming of Jesus in Rev 14 as just another coincidence.

And those in Rev 15 that come out of the great tribulation singing the song of Moses couldn't possibly be of the 12 tribes.

And seed of the woman couldn't possibly be of the 12 tribes.

Sorry, I cannot find those words in Rev. 14. There are the three angels with three messages, one of which is a warning for people NOT to take the mark. There is symbolic harvests going on there. Oh, there is this verse:

¹³ And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

This is about people dying DURING the days of GT.

Yes, finally, after 14 chapters in the book, FINALLY John tells us of people dying from the days of GT. In context, the days of GT that JUST STARTED after God gave His warning. So the days of GT JESUS spoke of, come late in chapter 14.

12 tribes? Pure imagination! They are people who believe in JESUS:

14:12  Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

There may be some of the 12 tribes in this group, but other scriptures tell us they don't or won't believe in Jesus until they SEE HIM and see the nail holes in His hands, and ask where he got them.

Please, show us any scripture that would even HINT these or of Israel. 

And seed of the woman couldn't possibly be of the 12 tribes.  No, of course not! The WOMEN is Israel. The Messiah came from ISRAEL.  But the church came out of Israel via the Messiah from Israel. 

 

[iamlamad]

13 hours ago, The Light said:

It's all just a coincidence. However, if we insert your IMAGINARY coming of Jesus at the end of the 5th seal, and pretend the the rider on the white horse in the 1st seal is Jesus, and pretend that the daily sacrifice is taken away on the same day at the abomination of desolation is set up, we can pound all this into a timeline with our handy sledge.

Baloney comes to mind.

No, what really comes to mind is water off a duck's back.  No coincidence, just rightly dividing. I don't assume two passages are the same event just because two words line up. 

IMAGINARY coming of Jesus at the end of the 5th seal,  Is it imagination or is it WORD? 

1 Thes:

4:17  Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
4:18  Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
5:1  But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
5:2  For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

I did not imagine that Paul wrote of the Day of the Lord just three verses after his classic rapture verse. That is the WORD, written for us to read and understand. 

5:9  For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

I did not have to imagine Paul wrote of wrath in his classic rapture passage. It is the WORD. 

Rev. 6:17  For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

I did not have to imagine that at the 6th seal John declares that the DAY Of His wrath (the Day of the Lord) (SAME VERY DAY PAUL WAS TALKING ABOUT) Has started. 

It is therefore NOT imagination that the rapture comes between seals 5 and seals 6, it is the WORD. 

pretend the the rider on the white horse in the 1st seal is Jesus  STRAWMAN   NOT JESUS, but THE CHURCH. JESUS is the one opening the seal

Rev. 5:6  And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
7  And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.

WHEN did Jesus get this book? WHEN? AT the same time He sent the Holy Spirit down. This is not imagination, this is WORD, correctly understood. You imagine 2000 years in these verses. So WHO is doing the real imagining? WODB syndrome. 

pretend that the daily sacrifice is taken away on the same day at the abomination of desolation is set up

Dan 12

1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

5 Then I Daniel looked, and, behold, there stood other two, the one on this side of the bank of the river, and the other on that side of the bank of the river.

6 And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders? This is about the end, what where is the START? It must be the time of trouble.

7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished. So the duration will be 3.5 years, but where to START COUNTING? So far, all Daniel knows is the time of great trouble: not a very precise starting point. 

8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?

9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Note, this is NOT a FROM / TO statement. There is no "to." It is an AND (in many translations: it is not a translation error).  Daniel is now going to learn where to START the count: It will start with the daily sacrifice removed OR when the abomination is set up. (Either one will work, for they happen at the same time.)

Benson Commentary: And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away — It is here declared, that the whole time that these calamities would last, should run somewhat beyond a time, times, and half a time, namely, thirty days beyond it; for a time, times, and a half signify only twelve hundred and sixty days, whereas here twelve hundred and ninety is mentioned as the term of duration; for which space of time, but not longer, the daily sacrifice should be taken away, or prohibited, and an idol be placed in the temple.

Barnes Notes:  There shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days - If this is to be taken literally, it would be three years and two hundred and ten days, reckoning the year at 360 days, and is thirty days more than the three years and a half referred to in Daniel 12:7

J.F.B. Commentary: thousand two hundred and ninety days—a month beyond the "time, times, and a half"

The commentaries all little help for they all seem to think these passages are referring to Antiochus! 

Just suppose we do make this a from / to statement. The abomination must still be what divides the week. But then the image "set up" would be after the entire 70th week has finished. In Revelation that would be somewhere in chapters 17 - 19 - or perhaps when Jesus returns as shown in Rev. 19. 

Note: NONE of the commentaries use the 1290 BACKWARDS as some try to do today, which would move the midpoint back 30 days, as in 1260 minus 30 making the first half of the week at 1230 days. 

You can poke fun all you want. At least I make SOME ATTEMPT to back up a theory with the Written word. 

 

[iamlamad]

This picture by Gavin has it in an easy to read picture, worth a 1000 words, as it is said.
Light, do you disagree with this? If so, WHY?

Edited August 21, 2020 by iamlamad