Peterlag Posted August 25, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 673 Content Per Day: 0.49 Reputation: 115 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/08/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 25, 2020 7 hours ago, JohnD said: We also have the power within us to eliminate potential. Laziness, fear, cowardice, intimidation, overthinking things, greed, lust, disobedience... I don't see what you see when walking in the spirit. You speak of how to walk in the flesh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterlag Posted August 25, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 673 Content Per Day: 0.49 Reputation: 115 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/08/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 25, 2020 20 hours ago, Willa said: Perhaps I chose the wrong word. The soulish nature or self gets in the way. Col 3:12 Put on then, as God's chosen ones, holy and beloved, compassionate hearts, kindness, humility, meekness, and patience, Col 3:13 bearing with one another and, if one has a complaint against another, forgiving each other; as the Lord has forgiven you, so you also must forgive. Col 3:14 And above all these put on love, which binds everything together in perfect harmony. I don't have a soulish nature either that gets in the way. Romans 6:2 How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? The Christians of today believe they are alive to sin and it's with much effort, frustration, and failure that they battle this sin nature the rest of their lives. It now seems clear to me that this concept of what the Christians believe today is not what the Scriptures teach. Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? We experience a death to our old sin nature once we are baptized into Christ. It’s dead and gone because it does not exist anymore. We become totally new in our spirit when we are born again, and this is how our old nature has been completely changed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leah777 Posted August 25, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,393 Content Per Day: 0.71 Reputation: 1,156 Days Won: 1 Joined: 01/09/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted August 25, 2020 1 hour ago, Peterlag said: The Christians of today believe they are alive to sin and it's with much effort, frustration, and failure that they battle this sin nature the rest of their lives No, I simply recognise my human sin, bless Jesus Christ for delivering me from the burden of my earthy sinfulness, and focus on God. I do not dwell on sin. 1 hour ago, Peterlag said: We experience a death to our old sin nature once we are baptized into Christ. It’s dead and gone because it does not exist anymore. It exists, but is of no consequence. For as long as earthly life goes on, we will sin. However, we are not to wallow in remorse. We pick ourselves up, look to God, and try again each moment of each day. We do not let sin become our focus, we do not 'dwell' on it. We are free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonaldBruno Posted August 25, 2020 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 452 Content Per Day: 0.26 Reputation: 175 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/26/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted August 25, 2020 2 hours ago, Peterlag said: I see the "sin nature" as something that existed before Jesus Christ destroyed it when the spirit of Christ came within the believer. This spirit is indeed a life form that is in all Christians and it seems to me one cannot understand and therefore function or be in the spirit if our old nature (which is dead) thinks in it's unrenewed mind that it suppose to be fighting against the new nature. Paul wrote in Galatians 2:20, "I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me:" That's what I'm talking about. I now understand being in Christ is being in the spirit and neither of them (in Christ or in the spirit) has anything to do with the darn flesh. It now seems perfectly clear to walk in the spirit is the same as putting on the Lord Jesus Christ. And so in my mind the 4 verses below fit perfectly. Every single person I know has told me about Romans 7 when I tell them I do not believe Paul taught about a "sin nature" for the Christian. What Paul talks about in the seventh chapter of Romans is what occurs to the believer who still thinks the Law applies to them. They end up spiritually dying by the commandment and realize that the commandment does not produce life. The war is with their flesh because they are still believing the Law has power over them. In the eighth chapter of Romans is where it explains how we overcome this whole issue by living in the spirit and being dead to the Law. We cannot live by faith in what Christ has done for us and still think our obedience to written laws are necessary. To do so takes away from the perfect work of Christ and places salvation and righteousness back in our own hands. Romans 6:2 How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? Romans 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. Galatians 5:16,18 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. Why did you leave out vs. 17? "For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please." That is exactly what Paul was talking about, doing these he did not want to do and reasoned that it was not him (spiritually), but the sin that swelled in him. If the spirit is dead (all who do not have Christ), then this scripture means nothing to that person, since their dead spirit cannot war against their flesh. They are just living in the flesh, to serve sin. But this verse is not talking about them. It is talking about born again Christians, who experience this war between two natures. Now the more spiritually mature you are, the less this becomes a battle. We are to walk in the Spirit, but sometimes stumble. If you honestly believe you walk in the Spirit 100% of the time, then you have lived a perfect life since becoming a Christian. You have loved your neighbor perfectly and loved and obeyed God perfectly ... didn't think anyone could do that! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refresher Posted August 26, 2020 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 15 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 381 Content Per Day: 0.21 Reputation: 812 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/25/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/04/1973 Share Posted August 26, 2020 (edited) 21 hours ago, JohnD said: We also have the power within us to eliminate potential. Laziness, fear, cowardice, intimidation, overthinking things, greed, lust, disobedience... In the kingdom of God is all about free will>>>It's up to you which one you wish to enjoy: the lust of the flesh as you mentioned above or walking in the Spirit? Galatians 5:16-26 NKJV Walking in the Spirit I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, [b]fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, [c]murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another. Edited August 26, 2020 by Refresher 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterlag Posted August 26, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 673 Content Per Day: 0.49 Reputation: 115 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/08/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 26, 2020 11 hours ago, RonaldBruno said: Why did you leave out vs. 17? "For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please." That is exactly what Paul was talking about, doing these he did not want to do and reasoned that it was not him (spiritually), but the sin that swelled in him. If the spirit is dead (all who do not have Christ), then this scripture means nothing to that person, since their dead spirit cannot war against their flesh. They are just living in the flesh, to serve sin. But this verse is not talking about them. It is talking about born again Christians, who experience this war between two natures. Now the more spiritually mature you are, the less this becomes a battle. We are to walk in the Spirit, but sometimes stumble. If you honestly believe you walk in the Spirit 100% of the time, then you have lived a perfect life since becoming a Christian. You have loved your neighbor perfectly and loved and obeyed God perfectly ... didn't think anyone could do that! I do not see what you see. So we do not agree. I left out verse 17 because it's a different point than 16 and 18. This 17 says they don't agree. In my mind I see we are either in one or the other and the two do not agree. You see them working together in us at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterlag Posted August 26, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 673 Content Per Day: 0.49 Reputation: 115 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/08/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 26, 2020 12 hours ago, leah777 said: No, I simply recognise my human sin, bless Jesus Christ for delivering me from the burden of my earthy sinfulness, and focus on God. I do not dwell on sin. It exists, but is of no consequence. For as long as earthly life goes on, we will sin. However, we are not to wallow in remorse. We pick ourselves up, look to God, and try again each moment of each day. We do not let sin become our focus, we do not 'dwell' on it. We are free. I do not agree. I have not felt a need to pick myself up or look to God to try to do better at any time today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonaldBruno Posted August 26, 2020 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 452 Content Per Day: 0.26 Reputation: 175 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/26/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted August 26, 2020 7 hours ago, Peterlag said: I do not see what you see. So we do not agree. I left out verse 17 because it's a different point than 16 and 18. This 17 says they don't agree. In my mind I see we are either in one or the other and the two do not agree. You see them working together in us at the same time. So you think verse 17 is communicating something different than verses 16 and 18 and don't see them all in the same context? I see the the spirit warring against the flesh. I am conscious of the lure, the lust of the flesh, the pride of life. I am conscious that if I don't get up and cover my day with a prayer for His guidance and protection, the enemy will mess with me. He knows my weaknesses. He can't destroy us or snatch us out of the Fathers hand, but he can certainly distract and disturb our walk. This is why the Bible continually reminds us to walk in the spirit, to deny the old self DAILY. As Christians we are told to mortify the old self, die to the self. But even as we believe wholeheartedly, we sometimes fall back into our old habits. I do see this war going on. But of course Christ has defeated sin and death in us so spiritually we are secure, sealed, saved. We walk in the spirit and simply say no to these fleshly temptations as they come. Yes, are under Grace, not the Law. But do we always love our neighbors as ourselves? Do we love our enemies? If all Christians did that, wow ... that would I guess be the unlimited potential available to us. Why haven't we reached it? Sin still gets in the way. Paul stated clearly that he did things that he didn't want to do spiritually, but that his sinful flesh was responsible for those things. He too saw them working in opposition to each other at the same time. That is what verse 17 says. It also implies that YOU and everyone else "may not do the things that you please". Again, no one walks perfectly in the Spirit. None of the prophets did, none of the Apostles, none of the Popes, Priests, Pastors or anyone else has walked perfectly in the Spirit. We have our moments of perfection. I believe God's will is done through us to accomplish His perfect plan. But rest assured He factors in all our blunders. Thankfully He is omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent, loving, merciful, forgiving, patient and gracious. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marathoner Posted August 26, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 73 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,320 Content Per Day: 7.11 Reputation: 13,350 Days Won: 99 Joined: 05/24/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted August 26, 2020 Let's look to the scriptures to understand what is meant by the grace of God. Titus 2:11-14, For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. The grace of God teaches us to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts. The grace of God teaches us to live soberly, righteously, and godly here and now. By the grace of God we affix our desires and hope upon the coming of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ. Christ Jesus gave Himself to redeem us from iniquity and purify us, to be His holy nation zealous for good works. God's grace is therefore understood to be the hand and power of the Lord Himself making us His new creation. Through fixating our eyes upon this flesh we subsequently deny God's grace, proclaiming that we remain under its power. Faith is required to walk in the Spirit of God, confident that this work He started in us will be finished when our Lord Jesus Christ appears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterlag Posted August 26, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 673 Content Per Day: 0.49 Reputation: 115 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/08/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 26, 2020 21 hours ago, leah777 said: No, I simply recognise my human sin, bless Jesus Christ for delivering me from the burden of my earthy sinfulness, and focus on God. I do not dwell on sin. It exists, but is of no consequence. For as long as earthly life goes on, we will sin. However, we are not to wallow in remorse. We pick ourselves up, look to God, and try again each moment of each day. We do not let sin become our focus, we do not 'dwell' on it. We are free. Then you should tare Galatians 5:16 out of your Bible. The verse that says... walk in the spirit and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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