Paul James Posted November 25, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 771 Content Per Day: 0.53 Reputation: 392 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/27/2020 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/07/1947 Share Posted November 25, 2020 5 hours ago, enoob57 said: perhaps you can show me within the text where this obvious exist It is the context of that section of 1 Corinthians 13. In verse 8 it may not be referring to the gift of tongues at all, and we know that prophecy involves preaching of the gospel, and knowledge is on the increase, and not vanishing away. So, it will be when Jesus comes again that we will no longer need world languages, preaching, or worldly knowledge. We won't need any of this in glory. Also, we can't say that the canon of Scripture is "the perfect" because we all know that there is a lot of criticism about the accuracy and reliability of most Bible translations. So if some think that the KJV is perfect, then many will refute it because there are errors in that version because of the difficulties of translation from the Latin. There is no such thing as a set of absolutely perfect Scriptures. We don't have the originals any longer, and so we have nothing to confirm the perfection of what we have in our different translations today. So, asserting that the "perfect" Scriptures have replaced the gifts of the Spirit is basing that assertion on a very unreliable foundation. And furthermore, basing a whole doctrine about the Holy Spirit on one phrase "when the perfect is come" is incompetent hermeneutics. Any expert in hermeneutics will tell you that. Also, the devil quoted bits of Scripture to Jesus in the wilderness and Jesus totally refuted his attempt at using the Scriptures to tempt Jesus; so the devil uses the misquote of "that which is perfect" to deceive people into thinking that the spiritual gifts are not for today's church. For those who believe his lie, the devil has won in their case and they remain powerless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul James Posted November 25, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 771 Content Per Day: 0.53 Reputation: 392 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/27/2020 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/07/1947 Share Posted November 25, 2020 3 hours ago, David1701 said: You're at it again, aren't you? What you call "Calvinism" is simply the doctrines of grace, as found in the Bible, and nothing to do with the gifts of the Holy Spirit. It is Cessationism that teaches that the gifts have ceased, not what you call "Calvinism". There are many "I'm the deciding factor in my salvation" heretics, as well as many who believe the biblical doctrines of grace, on both sides of the continuation/cessation debate. As it happens, I believe the biblical doctrines of grace (what you erroneously call "Calvinism") AND that the gifts of the Holy Spirit are for today; and I'm far from the only one. There is an entire fellowship of congregations, in the UK and elsewhere, that believe in salvation by grace alone (not fallen man's alleged "free" will), through faith alone, in Christ alone, and that the gifts are for today. You need to get off your hobby-horse and start doing what you tell others they need to do - be led by the Holy Spirit. Just for information, the Scottish Covenanters of the 17th Century were Calvinist, and they were strong in the prophetic, and their prophecies came to pass, especially the one where John Fletcher prophesied that the plague would not come into a certain city. It came to pass that the effects of the plague were all around the city, but no one who lived in that city got the plague. So it means that Calvinists can be used in the gifts of the Spirit. I just thought that bit of information might tickle your fancy! :-) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul James Posted November 25, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 771 Content Per Day: 0.53 Reputation: 392 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/27/2020 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/07/1947 Share Posted November 25, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, FrankIeCip said: Do you still believe in literal miraculous healings? Or you literally get bitten by a poisonous snake and nothing will happen? Just asking. I have family members who have spoken in tongues. The church they attend does not follow what the Bible says. 2 or more and an interpreter. They now act different but are inwardly the same as they were before. Just a couple cents. I have wondered about this because I feel they have a false sense of security or false hope. I am not saying it doesn’t still happen but from the people I know it is false. How do you explain after my prayer for my work supervisor who had been diagnosed with arthritis in her knee, that when she went back to the same doctor who originally xrayed her knee, and had another xray, the arthritis had totally disappeared? Also how would you explain that a lady with a chronic back problem and had constant pain for years, had prayer, resulting in all the pain disappearing and she had the best nights sleep in years? These were events I was personally involved in. Also, a friend who was profoundly deaf in both ears, went and had an operation on one ear, and on the way home, began hearing perfectly in the other ear as the result of his faith. Of course, James says that the person who doubts (or has unbelief) will receive nothing from the Lord. That is probably the reason why you and people you know have never observed or experienced divine healing. Paul got bitten by a poisonous snake and nothing happened to him, so it is quite possible. Also, concerning tongues. I was praying in tongues in a service and a New Zealand Maori lady told me that God spoke through me to her in the Maori language to encourage her in the faith. I had no knowledge of the Maori language at that time. Also a friend of mine was praying along with others in a prayer meeting, and when he prayed in tongues, a visitor from Ghana heard him praising God in the Ghana visitor's own village dialect. This was witnessed by at least 20 people in that prayer meeting. How do you explain that if you believe that tongues speaking today is false? Oh, by the way, these people, including me, live holy lives for Christ and are passionate about preserving the highest standard of piety possible. Maybe you are mixing with the wrong people and getting shonky information from them. Edited November 25, 2020 by Paul James 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankIeCip Posted November 25, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 757 Content Per Day: 0.58 Reputation: 1,119 Days Won: 2 Joined: 09/25/2020 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/08/1978 Share Posted November 25, 2020 I was just asking and you’ve answered. Thank you. It wasn’t meant to come off the wrong way. Just was pointing out that sometimes the tongues are not from God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted November 25, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,194 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,469 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted November 25, 2020 11 hours ago, Paul James said: It is the context of that section of 1 Corinthians 13. In verse 8 it may not be referring to the gift of tongues at all, and we know that prophecy involves preaching of the gospel, and knowledge is on the increase, and not vanishing away. So, it will be when Jesus comes again that we will no longer need world languages, preaching, or worldly knowledge. We won't need any of this in glory. Also, we can't say that the canon of Scripture is "the perfect" because we all know that there is a lot of criticism about the accuracy and reliability of most Bible translations. So if some think that the KJV is perfect, then many will refute it because there are errors in that version because of the difficulties of translation from the Latin. There is no such thing as a set of absolutely perfect Scriptures. We don't have the originals any longer, and so we have nothing to confirm the perfection of what we have in our different translations today. So, asserting that the "perfect" Scriptures have replaced the gifts of the Spirit is basing that assertion on a very unreliable foundation. And furthermore, basing a whole doctrine about the Holy Spirit on one phrase "when the perfect is come" is incompetent hermeneutics. Any expert in hermeneutics will tell you that. Also, the devil quoted bits of Scripture to Jesus in the wilderness and Jesus totally refuted his attempt at using the Scriptures to tempt Jesus; so the devil uses the misquote of "that which is perfect" to deceive people into thinking that the spiritual gifts are not for today's church. For those who believe his lie, the devil has won in their case and they remain powerless. 2 Tim 3:15-17 15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. KJV When one depreciates Scripture they depreciate God... after all it is His Word... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul James Posted November 25, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 771 Content Per Day: 0.53 Reputation: 392 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/27/2020 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/07/1947 Share Posted November 25, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, enoob57 said: 2 Tim 3:15-17 15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. KJV When one depreciates Scripture they depreciate God... after all it is His Word... Quite true. When one takes a Scripture that means one thing, and twists it around to mean something else he is perverting the Word of God to support a false doctrine. The devil tried to quote Scripture to Jesus in the wilderness in the same way that false teachers quote 1 Corinthians 13:8-10 to support their false view of the gifts of the Spirit. Edited November 25, 2020 by Paul James 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted November 25, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,194 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,469 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted November 25, 2020 God also says this John 12:48-50 48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. 49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. 50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak. KJV so we can see why God's Word trumps all intuitions.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alive Posted November 25, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 22 Topic Count: 194 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 11,053 Content Per Day: 6.54 Reputation: 9,015 Days Won: 36 Joined: 09/12/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/09/1956 Share Posted November 25, 2020 2 minutes ago, enoob57 said: God also says this John 12:48-50 48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. 49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. 50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak. KJV so we can see why God's Word trumps all intuitions.... @enoob define intuitions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul James Posted November 25, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 771 Content Per Day: 0.53 Reputation: 392 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/27/2020 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/07/1947 Share Posted November 25, 2020 6 hours ago, FrankIeCip said: I was just asking and you’ve answered. Thank you. It wasn’t meant to come off the wrong way. Just was pointing out that sometimes the tongues are not from God. It is when people speak in tongues in ways that Paul did not support in 1 Corinthians 14. I do believe that the babbling that goes along with kundalini manifestations like out of control jerking of the head, falling down, shaking, and uncontrolled laughter is of the flesh. True tongues is holy prayer to God and is spoken to Him in godly reverence, not uncontrolled babble in public meetings. Paul says that the spirit of the prophet is subject to the prophet. This means that anything done in the Spirit is always disciplined and under total control, and is performed for a particular purpose. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted November 25, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,194 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,469 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted November 25, 2020 11 minutes ago, Alive said: @enoob define intuitions. awareness of or knowing something without having it born out of the Word of God... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts