What are these spirit things that are inside of us?

[Gideon]

15 hours ago, Wesley L said:

Hi Gideon,

I see now. In KJV it just says sin. I have NASB at home.
But does that change the context of what God truly means?

I am trying to fight against the false belief that a born again christian is without sin. Which is not true.
Everybody in the flesh is prone to sin.
If you promote that born again christians are without sin, the one who says who is now without sin, please step forward.
Maybe I am too young in faith to have encountered such a born again christian. @GideonWould you step forward? @Peterlag Would you step forward? If you wouldn't? Why put a yoke on others with false teachings?

I am not promoting the false belief that a born again christian can sin freely without consequeces.
Our body is the temple of God, The Holy Spirit dwells within. Although still in the flesh, our spirit has been renewed through the Holy Spirit. A born again christian is with fruit and is being sanctified (changes towards righteousness) through the workings of the Holy Spirit.

I am not promoting the false belief that sin is normal for a born again christian and can be taken lightly.
Sin is dead serious, even a white lie or a stolen candy. Our Lord Jesus Christ died on the cross for our sins.
 

Missing the mark and keep sinning is bad.
Missing the mark an promoting that we are without sin is bad as well.
The truth is in the middle. We can fall off from both sides of the truth.

Brother, I believe you are very earnest in your beliefs and that your heart is in a good place in seeking truth. I simply ask you prayerfully consider what I am about to share. 

When you say it is wrong for a man to say he is without sin, why? Even if a man has just committed a sin, confesses it and gets forgiven, we are told the blood then cleanses himof all unrighteousness, amen? Is that man not without sin? Of course he is!

Now if you mean, does this man still have a propensity to sin, you may be correct. But.... what if , even while he is in his fleshly body, he does not possess a fleshly nature? is that not what we are told that God has for us.... new natures?  

If we are told that if we abide in Him, we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh, we might still have the possibility of sinning, but we abide in Him by faith, and thus we are kept from falling, just as He promised us.

I fully understand the confusion on this subject and realize as well that the vast majority of Christian churches simply have, up til now,  put limits on God's ability to deliver us from evil, and think that if a man stops sinning, it is through his power, his diligence, and thus concludes it is impossible. But this is not the case. 

God has promised to be our potter, not us. He has clearly promised in multiple places that He WILL keep a man from sinning and will actually CAUSE him to obey.. always. WOW. Where is such a thing stated clearly? Ezekiel 36, where the new covenant is promised.  

"Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean; from all your filthiness and from all your idols will I cleanse you.

A new heart also will I give you and a new spirit will I put within you;

and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you a heart of flesh.

And I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and ye shall keep My judgments and do them."

Ezekiel 36:25-27 

How plain must God state it? Obedience, the backbone requirement of the old covenant, is a promised blessig under the new covenant,,,,OUR covenant! Do we find ourselves excited by the possibility or immediately trying to prove God did not really mean it like that? 

Are there more verses? Absolutely! 

He has told us our shield of faith will quench all the fiery arrows of the enemy.

He has promised that. can count it all joy when we fall into diverse temptations, for if we resist thecdevl steadfast in the faith, he will flee from us. 

He assures us that He will not allow us to be tempted more than we can bear, and will even make a way of escape so we might not fall. 

He has delivered us from the power of darkness. 

He has told us to bring every thought into subjection to Him. 

He has told us He will keep us from falling. 

He has taught us to pray "Deliver us from evil."

He has made us more than conquerors.

He has told us He will set us free indeed and then defines the freedom He refers to as free from committing sin.

He has declared that if we abide in Him, we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

So, do you see how much we have to outright ignore to continue to hold onto our position? 

Let me make several clarifications.

1) Temptation is not sin. 

2) Bad thoughts are not sin, unless welcomed and  played with. Bad Thoughts are often satan's arrows, seeing if he can get us to  bite. 

3) Impulsive actions, such as anger, are not necessarily sin, unless we ignore the conviction of the Spirit. These are areas that God will improve in our sanctification. 

Walking without sinning is NOT perfection.. It is  simply a clean lump of clay wit no impurities that  can then go to work on to transform it. 

4) Romans 7 is not Paul's testimony. It WAS his testimony before his deliverance into Romans 8. How can we be sure? In 7, he states the things he wants to do, he cannot do. Yet, later on, he declares he can do all things through Christ who strengthens him. 

5) 1st John 1:9 is simply reiterating that Jesus came to save us from our sins. Now if a man states he has no sins and thus does not need forgiveness, he is a liar. How do we know this must be true. Just read the 3rd chapter! LOL. 

Le me end by saying this. When we read all this, a walk where we never willfully disobey, should not  our heart rejoice? Should we not hunger and thirst for such a walk, even if our minds cannot yet wrap our heads around how it is possible?

That is all God requires of us, that we WANT such an intimate walk. As to the how, I will be glad to share on it, but as I stated, until a man wants  to truly walk in victory over the world, the flesh and the devil, the HOW of it will totally elude him. 

However, I know this. God will move mountains to see a man is brought to understand how to become a true overcomer, if he longs for it..And in these last days, we are going to see multitudes awaken from going through the motions Christianity and discover that grace not only forgives, it empowers us to walk pleasing to our  God. 

I pray this helps. 

Gids

 

[Wayne222]

Some people believe they never sin. We shall see. But we can live a holy life. Takes time to develop as we walk with christ. Putting on the new man does not eradicate your imperfect will. You can still sin. Takes time. We are justified by Jesus blood. We are given his righteous standing. 

[Wesley L]

17 hours ago, Gideon said:

When you say it is wrong for a man to say he is without sin, why?

1 John 1:5-10
5 This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth; 7 but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.
 

17 hours ago, Gideon said:

Even if a man has just committed a sin, confesses it and gets forgiven, we are told the blood then cleanses himof all unrighteousness, amen? Is that man not without sin? Of course he is!

Sin is the act of disobedience.
The wages of sin is death, eternal seperation from God.
Through faith in Jesus Christ, although we were guilty, Jesus paid the fine so we could be redeemed.
The debt has been paid. But that doesn't take away the fact that we have sinned.

My understanding of scripture
When is the moment that we don't sin anymore? When we will be resurrected in our heavenly bodies.
At this moment we still have our earthly bodies. But through faith, by the Holy Spirit, our old self (spirit) died and we received a new life, new desires. Through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and His words, we are being sanctified, which is a process that will take our whole life. (thus the perseverance needed, a power given by the Holy Spirit as well)

What do you actually mean when you say:"I am without sin"?

• If you say: Since that day I have never sinned anymore and I will never sin anymore. I have doubts whether that could be true. OR maybe it is true, but I don't think it applies to all born again believers. So, it couldn't be taught as a doctrine applying to all christians.
• If you say: I have sinned, but because of the blood of Christ, I am without sin... That, I would have less problem with. But still... I'd prefer seeing it as our debts having been paid off by the blood of Christ through faith. So that in the eyes of God we will be counted as righteous.

Once a sinner, always a sinner. We become redeemed sinners counted as righteous through faith in Jesus Christ.
I don't understand why believers would see this as a burden. I become gratefull each time I read through this sentence. I become humble. I become focussed on following Christ, the King, the one without sin, who died for me so that this sinner could be redeemed. All glory to Him!

 @Gideon, so you are saying. Through sanctification by the Holy Spirit, there will be a day for a born again christian to conquer sin totally and live without sin completely. (while still living on earth)
Maybe, truly maybe a few select born again christians became without sin. If it was true, I would applaud to that. I just have no way to verify and I have to trust on someone's word for that. I truly hope that the claim is true for the brother claiming he is without sin. But scripture is telling me otherwise. And such claims should not be taken lightly as God is not to be mocked. But, I surely will put more time to study this subject.

 

Edited August 25, 2020 by Wesley L

[Marathoner]

Let us look to the scriptures to understand what @Peterlag and @Gideon are getting at:

Psalm 130

Out of the depths have I cried unto thee, O Lord.
Lord, hear my voice: let thine ears be attentive to the voice of my supplications.
If thou, Lord, shouldest mark iniquities, O Lord, who shall stand?
But there is forgiveness with thee, that thou mayest be feared.
I wait for the Lord, my soul doth wait, and in his word do I hope.
My soul waiteth for the Lord more than they that watch for the morning: I say, more than they that watch for the morning.
Let Israel hope in the Lord: for with the Lord there is mercy, and with him is plenteous redemption.
And he shall redeem Israel from all his iniquities.

We understand that Christ Jesus, the Lamb of God, purchased us from this world at great price. In Him all of scripture is fulfilled, even the intention of our Father to redeem us from the sin of Adam, our father after the flesh, which we find recorded in the book of Genesis. There's so much more...

It wasn't sufficient to merely forgive sin because the intention of our Lord is to make all things new: even us, the children of Adam. Christ Jesus is the second Adam, spotless and without blemish, into whom we are brought by the new birth effected by the Spirit of the living God. Therefore we are new creations in Christ, sanctified to walk in those works which God ordained for us before the foundation of the world. The work of the evil one (Satan) and the sin of our father after flesh (Adam) was undone when the Lord laid down His life for His friends. 

What does the apostle John mean when he writes, 

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. (1 John 1:8)

Because during our sojourn in this world and until the appointed time we bear our weakness: this flesh which is corrupt and returns to the dust. This flesh is like grass as the Lord Himself tells us. Just as the Lord wounded Jacob in the hollow of his thigh while he wrestled with God, thereby earning his new name Israel (Genesis 32), so we bear this weakness just like Israel did for the rest of his days (he walked with a limp). 

But we who are in Christ are not the slaves or servants of this flesh! We are given a new heart and mind --- a new nature --- which is of the Spirit. Therefore whomever walks in the Spirit is not a slave to sin, for we are dead to sin.  

[Wayne222]

We are dead to sin. Means we are dead to the reign of sin. Does not mean you cannot sin. As john said if anyone sins we have a advocate with the father. We have to remember our righteous standing is because we have been inputed the righteousness of christ. So being in christ we can live as the new man not the old man. 

[Sower]

On 8/24/2020 at 9:38 PM, Gideon said:

When you say it is wrong for a man to say he is without sin, why? Even if a man has just committed a sin, confesses it and gets forgiven, we are told the blood then cleanses him of all unrighteousness, amen? Is that man not without sin? Of course he is!

Surely thou jest.
Sounds like a loophole to me.

So I can now say I'm sinless?       (I just don't tell anybody I have just confessed a couple of sins, right).....
I was so sure I sinned, and was a sinner, as God says. But now only sometimes, and sinless other times. Sorta confusing.
Perhaps I'm going to find out that sinless is not the same as without sin. (How does that work with missing the mark)
Being cleaned of all the mud I fell into, does not mean I (never) fall into the mud. Just means I've been cleaned. Of mud again.
Jesus was spotless. Sinless. Perfect. Our righteousness.  The propitiation for (our) sin.
He needed no cleansing.
No forgiveness.
That's what I call sinless.
Without sin. Ever.....

So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them,
He that is without sin among you,
let him first cast a stone at her.
 

[WowLookaDuck]

That's a tremendous amount of self-deception to believe you don't sin. 

[Peterlag]

10 hours ago, Marathoner said:

Let us look to the scriptures to understand what @Peterlag and @Gideon are getting at:

Psalm 130

Out of the depths have I cried unto thee, O Lord.
Lord, hear my voice: let thine ears be attentive to the voice of my supplications.
If thou, Lord, shouldest mark iniquities, O Lord, who shall stand?
But there is forgiveness with thee, that thou mayest be feared.
I wait for the Lord, my soul doth wait, and in his word do I hope.
My soul waiteth for the Lord more than they that watch for the morning: I say, more than they that watch for the morning.
Let Israel hope in the Lord: for with the Lord there is mercy, and with him is plenteous redemption.
And he shall redeem Israel from all his iniquities.

We understand that Christ Jesus, the Lamb of God, purchased us from this world at great price. In Him all of scripture is fulfilled, even the intention of our Father to redeem us from the sin of Adam, our father after the flesh, which we find recorded in the book of Genesis. There's so much more...

It wasn't sufficient to merely forgive sin because the intention of our Lord is to make all things new: even us, the children of Adam. Christ Jesus is the second Adam, spotless and without blemish, into whom we are brought by the new birth effected by the Spirit of the living God. Therefore we are new creations in Christ, sanctified to walk in those works which God ordained for us before the foundation of the world. The work of the evil one (Satan) and the sin of our father after flesh (Adam) was undone when the Lord laid down His life for His friends. 

What does the apostle John mean when he writes, 

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. (1 John 1:8)

Because during our sojourn in this world and until the appointed time we bear our weakness: this flesh which is corrupt and returns to the dust. This flesh is like grass as the Lord Himself tells us. Just as the Lord wounded Jacob in the hollow of his thigh while he wrestled with God, thereby earning his new name Israel (Genesis 32), so we bear this weakness just like Israel did for the rest of his days (he walked with a limp). 

But we who are in Christ are not the slaves or servants of this flesh! We are given a new heart and mind --- a new nature --- which is of the Spirit. Therefore whomever walks in the Spirit is not a slave to sin, for we are dead to sin.  

Two things come to mind here. The second is I will share my take on 1 John in a minute. But first who are you? What religion do you come from whereby you write so well?

My take on 1 John...

I see this 1 John chapter 1 and 2 as we are either walking in our old dead nature if we are into sin. Or we are walking in the spirit if we are not into sin.

Chapter 1
6 "If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:"
6. Not in him because we are either not saved or have not put on the new man.

7 "But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin."
7. In him because we are saved and have put on the new man.

8 "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."
8. Not in him because we are either not saved or have not put on the new man.

9 "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
9. In him because we are saved and have put on the new man.

10 "If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."
10. Not in him because we are either not saved or have not put on the new man.

Chapter 2
1 "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:"
1. Not in him because we are either not saved or have not put on the new man.

2 "And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."
2. Not in him because we are either not saved or have not put on the new man.

3 "And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments."
3. In him because we are saved and have put on the new man.

4 "He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."
4. Not in him because we are either not saved or have not put on the new man.

5 "But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him."
5. In him because we are saved and have put on the new man.

6 "He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked."
6. In him because we are saved and have put on the new man.

[Sower]

5 hours ago, Peterlag said:

"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."
8. Not in him because we are either not saved or have not put on the new man.

9 "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
9. In him because we are saved and have put on the new man.

OK, Peterlag, why do you suppose we are told that if we say have no sin we are deceived?
Why are we told to confess sin?
Do you believe those born again who put on the new man never sin?

Do you believe abiding in Christ is the new man?
Are you always abiding, always residing in the 'new man' you have put on?
Do you ever sin?

Have you 'put on the new man'?  Explain please.
In your own words, please, then your scripture.

Do you know the purpose in confessing sin?

[Wesley L]

Hi @Peterlag,

You said you were new here. Welcome!
Hope you don't feel being attacked by my words. Hope you can see that I am trying to discern the word of God, which is for the good.
I find it complex to communicate clearly, because sometimes one term can mean different things for each believer.

Maybe I can try telling you this story:
I have identified myself as a born again christian for a few years now. I experience the Holy Spirit guiding in my life. 
A few months ago, I played soccer with friends. At one moment an opponent kicked the ball towards the goal, but the ball went outside. But actually I touched the ball slightly, without anyone noticing it. I noticed it. But in the rush of the game, I just played on without giving the ball back to the opponents. (I was lying).

My questions would be:

• How would you view such a situation?
• Do I have the Holy Spirit in me?
• Am I saved?
• How could I lie?

The story continues, but I first want to ask you these questions before I finish the story.